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Re: How Will We Remember Gennady Golovkin’s Career?
Posted: 17 Sep 2018, 23:47
by Ricky
jamamb wrote: ↑17 Sep 2018, 23:38
alvarez hasnt fought at 147 since he was 19. i dont think the size is a big deal, and the part of the article mentioning alvarezs pro debut weight w/o noting that he was 15 is laughable. ggg fought at 141 in the ams at 19 i think. things are a lot different at those ages.
whats more important is ggg just not really having any wins that have much significane at all historically. matt macklin , lemiex, murrauy stevents, etc mean very little beyond the immediate era, and of course when ggg stepped up vs jacobs and canelo he struggld greatly.
ggg has done nothing to earn a spot with the greats rather then just the very goods, guys like serigo martinez. only question now is if he will continue to be overrated in retirment, just like vitali has been,.
Nonsense. In his prime he cleaned the division out. Until jacobs he barely lost a single round in his entire career. He took down close but clear wins vs canelo & jacobs. He never faced an opponent he bever beat.
Re: How Will We Remember Gennady Golovkin’s Career?
Posted: 17 Sep 2018, 23:50
by jamamb
he was beating guys like macklin, murray, lemieux, stevens, etc.....these guys really mean very little in any intergenerational discussion. then he stepped up and struggled greatly. many people had him losing to jacobs and whatever the resullts both canelo fights were tough for him and he didnt win either
gggs resume is packed with plenty of contemporary c+/b level guys but lacks the sort of serious wins to really be much of a standout historically. his wins arent even that much better then billy joe saunders wins
Re: How Will We Remember Gennady Golovkin’s Career?
Posted: 17 Sep 2018, 23:52
by tiny_acres
Arguably top 10. Even if you are a hater you could not rate him less then a top 20 middleweight in history.
He may have came from a weak era but he dominated the division for years
Re: How Will We Remember Gennady Golovkin’s Career?
Posted: 17 Sep 2018, 23:53
by Ricky
Give me a break Jam. He could only beat the world title contenders that are around. He would need a time machine to please you so he could face Hagler. He's a great MW but he's no Marty McFly. We get it.
Re: How Will We Remember Gennady Golovkin’s Career?
Posted: 17 Sep 2018, 23:58
by jamamb
to me thats irrelevant. a fighters credit/legacy should be based on what they actually did. it may not have been his fault the era was weak for so long, but tough stuff, it doesnt mean he should get any more credit for beating guys like martin murray
and btw there were many points while he was around where there were guys at smw who wouldve been better wins for him, but he never dared to move up. and there was prime lara at 154 for a long time calling for a fight (and willing to move up), but it was always dismissing that fight even though it wouldve been way better then beating guys like gabe rosado and murray etc
ggg stayed in his comfort zone for way too long. hey, i think it may well be possible that he was past his best for the canelo fights given his age, but thaats just speculation. fact is that he was backed by hbo for years yet didnt really fit anything on his record that makes him a great imo. he was one of the best of his era and very good, but lacking historically. give me a few really good wins over a load of okay wins anyday.
seriously man, bj saunders is not far off at all from having a comparable record
Re: How Will We Remember Gennady Golovkin’s Career?
Posted: 18 Sep 2018, 00:03
by jamamb
thats another thing , there was so much talk from gggs camp about setting the new mw defenses record , which he didnt, and imo that really showed there focus. they went for quantity even when qualitity seriously suffered. its the really big wins that make the greats great, not a bunch of 2nd and 3rd rate wins that are merely okay
usyk and loma in a few years and no more then 15 fights already have better wins then ggg does in his 40 fight nearly 15 year career
Re: How Will We Remember Gennady Golovkin’s Career?
Posted: 18 Sep 2018, 00:55
by jas80s
He'll be remembered like most excellent fighters of the modern, huge money era of boxing.
He was steered toward fights where he could look good and collect wins. Eventually, he parlayed an impressive streak of wins against solid, but over matched opponents into a couple of showdowns with similarly talented fighters where he demonstrated that he is a tremendous fighter, but not a super human wrecking machine as was hoped for by his throngs of fans who savored every morsel of his impressive Win/KO streak in fights he had almost no shot of losing.
In the end, we really have no idea just how good he was, how could we? He had two fights against a similarly talented fighter when he was in his late 30s, how much can one tell from that?
Off hand, I'd say he's about on the same level as Canelo Alvarez.

Re: How Will We Remember Gennady Golovkin’s Career?
Posted: 18 Sep 2018, 02:58
by Ruthless-RKO
RKY wrote: ↑17 Sep 2018, 23:53
Give me a break Jam. He could only beat the world title contenders that are around. He would need a time machine to please you so he could face Hagler. He's a great MW but he's no Marty McFly. We get it.
It’s not his fault other champions wouldn’t fight him. Sturm he chased for a long time before he moved to USA. Martinez, Geale (he eventually fought), Cotto, JCC Jr.
None of them wanted to fight him, they always had other options where it was less risky and where would make more money.
Re: How Will We Remember Gennady Golovkin’s Career?
Posted: 18 Sep 2018, 03:50
by Enlightened-One
Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑18 Sep 2018, 02:58
RKY wrote: ↑17 Sep 2018, 23:53
Give me a break Jam. He could only beat the world title contenders that are around. He would need a time machine to please you so he could face Hagler. He's a great MW but he's no Marty McFly. We get it.
It’s not his fault other champions wouldn’t fight him. Sturm he chased for a long time before he moved to USA. Martinez, Geale (he eventually fought), Cotto, JCC Jr.
None of them wanted to fight him, they always had other options where it was less risky and where would make more money.
For the record, I’m not saying you’re wrong, but I’m curious to know if there is any record of anyone affiliated with K2 or Tom Loeffler making offers to certain fighters that supposedly “ducked” Gennady Golovkin?
He’s been a world-rated fighter since 2008, captured his first world title during 2010 and made his debut with HBO in September 2012 and has remained with that network ever since.
However, as far as I’m concerned, there is very little evidence of K2 ever initiating fight contract negotiations with any of GGG’s middleweight peers since 2008 and I have also been less than impressed about HBO’s efforts to promote the supremely-talented Kazakh puncher.
I can’t help thinking that Tom Loeffler & HBO should have made more of an effort to initiate contract negotiations with some of these men that were active middleweights around the same time as Golovkin being world-rated:
• Andy Lee
• Anthony Mundine
• Arthur Abraham
• Daniel Geale (prime, not the shot version)
• Darren Barker
• Dmitry Pirog
• Felix Sturm
• Jermain Taylor
• Julio Cesar Chavez Jr.
• Kelly Pavlik
• Paul Williams
• Peter Quillin
• Sam Soliman
• Sergio Martinez
If Team GGG tried to make these fights, but failed, because they couldn’t offer these guys enough money to share the ring with Golovkin, then fair enough - they at least did "something".
However, I really doubt that Tom Loeffler even made the effort in the first place… and I can’t find any evidence to suggest otherwise, but I’m happy to be proven wrong about this.
I know that Tom Loeffler previously made false claims about Andre Ward and Billy Joe Saunders and there are videos of both fighters challenging the K2 boss to his face and criticising him for his actions, which were met with silence. I'm sure you're aware of both of these situations.
I guess that Tom is just like any promoter since he either severely embellishes the truth or makes false claims to gain the attention of the media.
Also when GGG's bout against Canelo fell through during Cinco de Mayo, his team (Tom Loeffler) had more than nine weeks to arrange for a replacement, but they never made any attempt to contact any world-rated opposition, because instead they opted to face the terribly dire Vanes Martirosyan, yet people say this wasn’t Gennady's fault either, despite the Kazakh being self-promoted.
I’m genuinely curious to know if you can provide any proof that “nobody wanted to fight GGG”, because I trust your opinion and you are one of the very few people to studiously follow the sport as closely as I do?
Re: How Will We Remember Gennady Golovkin’s Career?
Posted: 18 Sep 2018, 04:29
by Ruthless-RKO
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑18 Sep 2018, 03:50
However, as far as I’m concerned, there is very little evidence of K2 ever initiating fight contract negotiations with any of GGG’s middleweight peers since 2008 and I have also been less than impressed about HBO’s efforts to promote the supremely-talented Kazakh puncher.
If Team GGG tried to make these fights, but failed, because they couldn’t offer these guys enough money to share the ring with Golovkin, then fair enough - they at least did "something".
Not like it's a court case where evidence is required. Of course evidence is a good thing. I visit tonnes of boxing websites daily and there is more out there now than there even was let's say 5 years ago. All this Youtube stuff also, there is always evidence now days.. Going back to evidence, I'm not saying there is or isn't. But just because there isn't doesn't necessarily mean they never offered any fights out. Loeffler is very soft spoken with the media also. Likes to do things quietly. I'd assume, some of the boxers, if offered low money, some may have come out and trashed it, but then again not everyone is like Adrien Broner.
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑18 Sep 2018, 03:50
Also when GGG's bout against Canelo fell through during Cinco de Mayo, his team (Tom Loeffler) had more than nine weeks to arrange for a replacement, but they never made any attempt to contact any world-rated opposition, because instead they opted to face the terribly dire Vanes Martirosyan, yet people say this wasn’t Gennady's fault either, despite the Kazakh being self-promoted.
Not going to deny this. Plenty of time to come up with decent bout. But I think it ultimately came down to who was willing to earn $200k against GGG and get sparked out.
Re: How Will We Remember Gennady Golovkin’s Career?
Posted: 18 Sep 2018, 04:48
by Enlightened-One
Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑18 Sep 2018, 04:29
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑18 Sep 2018, 03:50
However, as far as I’m concerned, there is very little evidence of K2 ever initiating fight contract negotiations with any of GGG’s middleweight peers since 2008 and I have also been less than impressed about HBO’s efforts to promote the supremely-talented Kazakh puncher.
If Team GGG tried to make these fights, but failed, because they couldn’t offer these guys enough money to share the ring with Golovkin, then fair enough - they at least did "something".
Not like it's a court case where evidence is required. Of course evidence is a good thing. I visit tonnes of boxing websites daily and there is more out there now than there even was let's say 5 years ago. All this Youtube stuff also, there is always evidence now days.. Going back to evidence, I'm not saying there is or isn't. But just because there isn't doesn't necessarily mean they never offered any fights out. Loeffler is very soft spoken with the media also. Likes to do things quietly. I'd assume, some of the boxers, if offered low money, some may have come out and trashed it, but then again not everyone is like Adrien Broner.
You’re right, it’s not a court case, but I thought that at least “something” would exist. I’ve had this debate with others for several years, but nobody has ever been able to provide anything to substantiate this commonly-held misconception.
Like I said earlier, I’m happy to be proven wrong, but those that believe in this myth do so because so many other people say that it’s true – not because anyone knows for certain that it happened. Their beliefs are based on religious-like faith where evidence seems irrelevant.
I’m not mocking you. It’s your prerogative to believe in whatever you want, but at least we seem to agree that there is very little proof of K2, HBO or Tom Loeffler ever submitting offers to GGG's big name rivals that were subsequently rejected.
I can only recall two situations that were verified, the first is when Gary O'Sullivan accepted Loeffler’s offer to face GGG, but Tom reneged on their agreement and subsequently submitted a revised offer that was significantly smaller than what was originally accepted. The Irishmen then rejected the smaller payday.
I also recall Billy Joe Saunders rejecting an offer to face Golovkin once, where he was being paid less than David Lemieux’s purse. The Brit has subsequently accepted the next two offers he received, but it was Team GGG that withdrew from both of those bouts.
In both of those situations, these guys actually wanted to face GGG, since O'Sullivan and Saunders had actually accepted offers at some point to face the Kazakh.
There doesn’t seem to be any proof of other fighters rejecting K2’s offer to face GGG and that seems strange considering how widespread this myth has become.
Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑18 Sep 2018, 04:29
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑18 Sep 2018, 03:50
Also when GGG's bout against Canelo fell through during Cinco de Mayo, his team (Tom Loeffler) had more than nine weeks to arrange for a replacement, but they never made any attempt to contact any world-rated opposition, because instead they opted to face the terribly dire Vanes Martirosyan, yet people say this wasn’t Gennady's fault either, despite the Kazakh being self-promoted.
Not going to deny this. Plenty of time to come up with decent bout. But I think it ultimately came down to who was willing to earn $200k against GGG and get sparked out.
I'm glad we agree on this.

Re: How Will We Remember Gennady Golovkin’s Career?
Posted: 18 Sep 2018, 06:07
by dagilechia
Yeah GGG didnt won any of Canelo fights...and Canelo arguably drew vs Mayweather. We shouldnt accept robbery/incompetence just because it's official.
Re: How Will We Remember Gennady Golovkin’s Career?
Posted: 18 Sep 2018, 07:07
by lazboy
Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑18 Sep 2018, 02:58
RKY wrote: ↑17 Sep 2018, 23:53
Give me a break Jam. He could only beat the world title contenders that are around. He would need a time machine to please you so he could face Hagler. He's a great MW but he's no Marty McFly. We get it.
It’s not his fault other champions wouldn’t fight him. Sturm he chased for a long time before he moved to USA. Martinez, Geale (he eventually fought), Cotto, JCC Jr.
None of them wanted to fight him, they always had other options where it was less risky and where would make more money.

Re: How Will We Remember Gennady Golovkin’s Career?
Posted: 18 Sep 2018, 07:08
by lazboy
dagilechia wrote: ↑18 Sep 2018, 06:07
Yeah GGG didnt won any of Canelo fights...and Canelo arguably drew vs Mayweather. We shouldnt accept robbery/incompetence just because it's official.

Re: How Will We Remember Gennady Golovkin’s Career?
Posted: 18 Sep 2018, 07:33
by Oiky
Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑18 Sep 2018, 02:58
RKY wrote: ↑17 Sep 2018, 23:53
Give me a break Jam. He could only beat the world title contenders that are around. He would need a time machine to please you so he could face Hagler. He's a great MW but he's no Marty McFly. We get it.
It’s not his fault other champions wouldn’t fight him. Sturm he chased for a long time before he moved to USA. Martinez, Geale (he eventually fought), Cotto, JCC Jr.
None of them wanted to fight him, they always had other options where it was less risky and where would make more money.
Agree, ggg was avoided for a long time
Re: How Will We Remember Gennady Golovkin’s Career?
Posted: 18 Sep 2018, 08:20
by Ruthless-RKO
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑18 Sep 2018, 03:50
I’m genuinely curious to know if you can provide any proof that “nobody wanted to fight GGG”, because I trust your opinion and you are one of the very few people to studiously follow the sport as closely as I do?
Just digging really..
Oleg Hermann, Manager of WBA "regular" middleweight champion Gennady Golovkin (20-0, 17KOs), is very upset with the "super champion" of the division, Felix Sturm. Golovkin has tried to secure a fight with Sturm for a long time. They saw a recent report where Sturm was interested in facing former champion Kelly Pavlik in the summer. Pavlik is already set to face Alfonso Lopez on the Pacquiao-Mosley pay-per-view on May 7 in Las Vegas.
"I know that he's trying to find a worthy opponent for June," said Hermann.
"Of course, he will find another Lorenzo or Hearns to get some laughter. Sturm says he wants to fight against Kelly Pavlik. Excellent! He wants to fight with someone who didn't box for a year and was recently discharged from the clinic for alcoholics. Pavlik is a great boxer, but he needs time to get back in shape."
"Gennady, the mandatory challenger, has been trying for a year to fight him. We are ready, and our fans want this fight. Felix also knows that he needs scheduled this meeting in order to become a full champion. He wears a championship belt, which no longer belongs to him. If Sturm has a shred of pride, he should do it. Otherwise he will remain in history as the 'constantly avoiding fighter.'
Golovkin vs N’Jikam is Tentative For May/June in Monaco
According to Oleg Hermann, manager of sparkling Kazakh middleweight banger Gennady Golovkin (20-0, 17 KOs), his protégé will fight Hassan N’Dam N’Jikam (25-0, 17 KOs) of France in his next outing. A thrilling clash between two undefeated prospects will also be a partial unification of the WBA title: N’Jikam, 27, is the WBA interim champion, and the former amateur superstar Golovkin, 28, holds the “regular” title. Quotes are necessary as the World Boxing Association not-so-surprisingly has three beltholders in this particular weight class. The “super” title belongs to German stalwart Felix Strum (35-2-1, 15 KOs), 32.
Hermann gave a short interview to Kazakh media portal Sports.kz to share his feelings regarding the current situation.
About litigation with Universum Box-Promotion on promotional rights,
“We asked the Hamburg district court to postpone the hearing (which was scheduled to take place on March 23) for two weeks. We need some extra time to make our arguments more convincing. A judge, who was involved in the landcourt during the first instance, wasn’t competent enough to rule the dispute in favour of Gennady. And we were unable to explain all the details to the judge. This time it will be different. It’s not only our side who are preparing for the new hearings. Judges make more thorough preparations as well. I think our chances are high. We should get a satisfying ruling”.
About Golovkin’s next fight,
“We already know our future opponent. It will be WBA interim champion Hassan N’Dam N’Jikam from France. This fight will take place either in late May or in early June. A tentative place for this contest is Monaco. Right now we are discussing the details with N’Jikam’s handlers. Gennady has already landed in the States where he will start his preparations and, hopefully, will have a strong training camp”.
Editor's Note: Hassan N’Dam N’Jikam is also scheduled to fight Giovani Lorenzo on April 2.
Golovkin vs N'Dam May Finally Be Forced To Happen
The WBA may finally be forced to sort out their mess in the middeweight division, which has multiple champions. As previously reported on BS.com, the WBA's "super champion" at middleweight, Felix Sturm, is going to defend his title against dangerous Brit Matthew Macklin on either June 25 of July 2 at the Lanxess Arena in Cologne, Germany with Sat 1 as television network.
With Sturm-Mackling in place, the WBA "regular" middleweight champ, Gennady Golovkin, could be forced to face the WBA's interim-middleweight king Hassan N´Dam of France, although there are still many ifs to be sorted out before this happen.
The winner of Sturm vs Macklin would then face the winner of Golovkin and N´Dam and the WBA's mess at 160 would finally be sorted out.
I think WBA are partially/mostly to blame for having soo many bloody titles.
Gennady Golovkin's Manager Rips Felix Sturm and N'Dam
Oleg Hermann, manager of WBA "regular" middleweight champion Gennady Golovkin, is upset that his boxer is unable to secure fights with Felix Sturm, the WBA's "super champion" at middleweight, and the WBA's interim-champion Hassan N'Dam. Golovkin will face Kassim Ouma in early June, while Sturm fights British boxer Matthew Macklin on June 25. The WBA has ordered Golovkin and N'Dam to fight each other by the fall and Sturm has to face the winner.
"It is very hard to find a good opponent. Everybody knows that Felix Sturm is afraid of Gennady. Strictly speaking, Sturm should get out of boxing and become a marathon runner because he is running fast and long. He has an excellent chance to become a champion in athletics. Obviously, Hassan N'Dam has already gone into hiding. I hope they are running in circles because by the end of the summer they are going to re-appear in our path. The WBA has already ordered N'Dam to fight Gennady, and then it's going to be Sturm's turn," Hermann said.
Sturm: Pirog is The Toughest To Beat, Golovkin Overrated
WBA "super" middleweight champion Felix Sturm is days away from a scheduled defense against undefeated British boxer Martin Murray. The year is almost over and several challengers are ready to take Sturm on. Sturm sat down with Abendblatt and discussed a number of subjects - including the reasons for the failed negotiations to make a rematch with Matthew Macklin, whether he plans to face his mandatory Gennady Golovkin and more.e art.
On the rematch with Macklin: -
It didn't take place because Macklin did not want to fight. At the end of the negotiations, we offered him 70% more than he received in the first fight. However, he only had excuses.
Possible opponents: -
Without a doubt, the most dangerous is the Russian boxer, WBO champion Dmitry Pirog. He is the most difficult to beat because his style is very complex. Argentinean Sergio Martinez is also very strong, but [his style] is more convenient for me, and the same goes for the Australian - IBF champion Daniel Geale and the WBC champion Julio Cesar Chavez from Mexico.
Regarding mandatory challenger Gennady Golovkin -
We'll see. Golovkin - is one of many potential competitors. I think he's immensely overrated by his advisers. I would have fought with him at any time.
^^^ He's called him overrated here.. He said he would have fought him at any time?
Pirog Believes Felix Sturm Will Struggle With Golovkin
WBO world middleweight champion Dmitry Pirog believes WBA champion Felix Sturm (36-2, 15KOs) will struggle when he finally meets hard hitter Gennady Golovkin (21-0, 18KOs). Sturm is the WBA's "super champion" at 160-pounds, while Golovkin is the "regular champion" at 160. The WBA ordered Sturm to defend the title against Golovkin, the current mandatory challenger, but the sanctioning body has not forced the issue to make this fight happen.
Based on Sturm's recent performances, a controversial split decision win over Matthew Macklin and a close twelve round draw with the far less experienced Martin Murray, Pirog feels the German boxer will have problems when he steps in the ring a heavy handed boxer like Golovkin.
"I think [Felix Sturm] has ceased to develop as a boxer. I've been able to form this opinion on the basis of his recent fights. If he is to meet Gennady Golovkin in the near future, I think that it's going to be difficult for him," Pirog said.
In a recent interview, Sturm praised Pirog and called him "the most difficult" fighter to beat at 160-pounds. Sturm feels Golovkin is "very overrated."
Golovkin’s Manager: N’Jikam Has Refused to Fight Gennady
Oleg Hermann, manager of WBA “regular” middleweight champion Gennady Golovkin (22-0, 19 KOs), informed Allboxing.ru, that certain obstacles have been removed to prevent a fight between his boxer and the WBA's "super champion" at 160-pounds, Felix Sturm (36-2-2, 15 KOs). A fight was ordered between Golovkin and WBA interim-champ Hassan N’Dam N’Jikam (26-0, 17 KOs), but on Wednesday night the French boxer vacated his title and walked away from the fight.
“WBA interim champion Hassan N’Dam N’Jikam (26-0, 17 KOs) has relinquished his title and his chance to fight Gennady. A purse bid for this fight should have taken place on Thursday but hence N’Jikam had made a decision to withdraw for good. Given that, Gennady has no mandatory challenger ahead of him, he is absolutely free to hunt down Felix Sturm who is recognized as a super champion," said Hermann.
“Now we wait for the WBA to sanction the fight with Sturm. Gennady is the mandatory challenger to Felix. Maybe this fight will happen in April. The countdown for the collision is on."
Team Golovkin are going to receive a taste of bad news, as Sturm has reached an agreement to fight former WBC champion Sebastian Zbik on April 13 in Germany.
^^^ Is that a duck?
Drozd Surprised That Pirog Turned Down a Golovkin Bout
Russian cruiserweight Gregory Drozd is surprised that WBO middleweight champion Dmitry Pirog is not interested in fighting Gennady Golovkin, the WBA's "regular" champion at 160-pounds. Drozd, a rising cruiserweight, is good friends with both fighters. He knows Pirog well, due to their Russian roots, and he was stablemates with Golovkin when both boxers were promoted by Universum.
Pirog's handlers believe a fight with Golovkin is not the right move at the moment, because neither of them is well known in the United States, and the networks like HBO and Showtime are not interested in televising their bout.
"I know Dmitry very well. Of course, the situation that developed with him [not being able to secure big fights] is sad and strange. I would like it very much if he were to face the best boxers - like Felix Sturm or Sergio Martinez. However, he did not want to fight with Gennady Golovkin, whi I'm also on good terms with. We were stablemates under Universum. Gennady is a great guy, and so is Dmitry. So, in truth, I would not be very happy to see them beat each other up," Drozd said.
Pirog's team said no because they're both unknown in the US?
K2's Loeffler Ready To Make Geale-Golovkin Unification
A few days ago, the WBA ordered the winner of Sturm-Geale to face the winner of Golovkin-Proksa by early December.
HBO was very impressed by Golovkin's performance and the network wants to have him back as soon as possible. K2 is looking to secure a December date for Golovkin - in either Texas, Los Angeles or New York.
"The WBA issued that resolution on Thursday, that the winner of Golovkin-Proksa is the mandatory for Sturm and Geale. We're hoping now that Geale will defend the WBA title instead of vacating the title," Loeffler told BS.com.
For years, Sturm has avoided a fight with Golovkin. Loeffler has a lot more confidence in Geale stepping up to the plate.
"That's one obstacle out of the way as far as Sturm always being recognized as the super champion. That's one problem we had. Gennady couldn't unify the [WBA] title because Sturm was super champion, but we have more faith in Geale. He had a great performance in Germany, winning the title - and he actually had two great performances in Germany - the one against [Sebastian] Sylvester and then he came back and beat Sturm. We feel that Geale has a lot of heart and a lot of confidence in his abilities," Loeffler said.
Geale's American promoter, Gary Shaw, told BS on Saturday that he was open to making a Geale-Golovkin unification.
Gennady Golovkin Named Sole WBA Middleweight Champ
The World Boxing Association announced that Daniel Geale will be stripped of his “super champion” status and Gennady Golovkin is named as its sole WBA middleweight champion.
President Gilberto Mendoza made the declaration at the WBA’s 91st Annual Convention in Jakarta.
Geale won the WBA “Super Champion” title when he unified the WBA and IBF titles by winning a decision over existing WBA “Super Champion” Felix Sturm on September 1 in Oberhausen, Germany.
However, because of Sturm’s long overdue mandatory obligation to Golovkin, the WBA declared the winner of Sturm/Geale bout must face the winner of Golovkin/Grzegorz Proksa by December 31.
Golovkin defeated Proksa by stopping him in the fifth round in a very impressive performance. Geale has since declined to face Golovkin announcing he will fight Anthony Mundine in January 2013 in Australia.
“We commend the WBA for clearing up this long overdue situation and recognizing Gennady as their only champion in the middleweight division. Gennady is proud to be the WBA and IBO champion and looks forward to returning to the ring soon,” said Tom Loeffler of K2 Promotions.
Geale had a great win over Sturm in Germany, however he soon joined many others in avoiding Golovkin. Geale turned down a potential lucrative fight against Golovkin on HBO to sign for the Mundine fight.
“We don’t blame Geale and his team for taking a safer fight. However, they knew the obligations they would have prior to the Sturm fight. Geale is still IBF champion and if he continues to win, this might be a great unification fight in the future.”
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm tired. All of the above is Golovkin and his team trying to become 'full' WBA champion and unifying with Pirog. Obviously the fight was set, but Pirog suffered a career-ending injury.
Main boxer mentioned was Sturm, who kept stalling. I think GGG wasted too much time, but then probably though a fight would be foreced.. Also Hassan N'Dam clearly avoided GGG..
Re: How Will We Remember Gennady Golovkin’s Career?
Posted: 18 Sep 2018, 08:58
by Enlightened-One
Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑18 Sep 2018, 08:20
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑18 Sep 2018, 03:50
I’m genuinely curious to know if you can provide any proof that “nobody wanted to fight GGG”, because I trust your opinion and you are one of the very few people to studiously follow the sport as closely as I do?
Just digging really..
Oleg Hermann, Manager of WBA "regular" middleweight champion Gennady Golovkin (20-0, 17KOs), is very upset with the "super champion" of the division, Felix Sturm. Golovkin has tried to secure a fight with Sturm for a long time. They saw a recent report where Sturm was interested in facing former champion Kelly Pavlik in the summer. Pavlik is already set to face Alfonso Lopez on the Pacquiao-Mosley pay-per-view on May 7 in Las Vegas.
"I know that he's trying to find a worthy opponent for June," said Hermann.
"Of course, he will find another Lorenzo or Hearns to get some laughter. Sturm says he wants to fight against Kelly Pavlik. Excellent! He wants to fight with someone who didn't box for a year and was recently discharged from the clinic for alcoholics. Pavlik is a great boxer, but he needs time to get back in shape."
"Gennady, the mandatory challenger, has been trying for a year to fight him. We are ready, and our fans want this fight. Felix also knows that he needs scheduled this meeting in order to become a full champion. He wears a championship belt, which no longer belongs to him. If Sturm has a shred of pride, he should do it. Otherwise he will remain in history as the 'constantly avoiding fighter.'
Golovkin vs N’Jikam is Tentative For May/June in Monaco
According to Oleg Hermann, manager of sparkling Kazakh middleweight banger Gennady Golovkin (20-0, 17 KOs), his protégé will fight Hassan N’Dam N’Jikam (25-0, 17 KOs) of France in his next outing. A thrilling clash between two undefeated prospects will also be a partial unification of the WBA title: N’Jikam, 27, is the WBA interim champion, and the former amateur superstar Golovkin, 28, holds the “regular” title. Quotes are necessary as the World Boxing Association not-so-surprisingly has three beltholders in this particular weight class. The “super” title belongs to German stalwart Felix Strum (35-2-1, 15 KOs), 32.
Hermann gave a short interview to Kazakh media portal Sports.kz to share his feelings regarding the current situation.
About litigation with Universum Box-Promotion on promotional rights,
“We asked the Hamburg district court to postpone the hearing (which was scheduled to take place on March 23) for two weeks. We need some extra time to make our arguments more convincing. A judge, who was involved in the landcourt during the first instance, wasn’t competent enough to rule the dispute in favour of Gennady. And we were unable to explain all the details to the judge. This time it will be different. It’s not only our side who are preparing for the new hearings. Judges make more thorough preparations as well. I think our chances are high. We should get a satisfying ruling”.
About Golovkin’s next fight,
“We already know our future opponent. It will be WBA interim champion Hassan N’Dam N’Jikam from France. This fight will take place either in late May or in early June. A tentative place for this contest is Monaco. Right now we are discussing the details with N’Jikam’s handlers. Gennady has already landed in the States where he will start his preparations and, hopefully, will have a strong training camp”.
Editor's Note: Hassan N’Dam N’Jikam is also scheduled to fight Giovani Lorenzo on April 2.
Golovkin vs N'Dam May Finally Be Forced To Happen
The WBA may finally be forced to sort out their mess in the middeweight division, which has multiple champions. As previously reported on BS.com, the WBA's "super champion" at middleweight, Felix Sturm, is going to defend his title against dangerous Brit Matthew Macklin on either June 25 of July 2 at the Lanxess Arena in Cologne, Germany with Sat 1 as television network.
With Sturm-Mackling in place, the WBA "regular" middleweight champ, Gennady Golovkin, could be forced to face the WBA's interim-middleweight king Hassan N´Dam of France, although there are still many ifs to be sorted out before this happen.
The winner of Sturm vs Macklin would then face the winner of Golovkin and N´Dam and the WBA's mess at 160 would finally be sorted out.
I think WBA are partially/mostly to blame for having soo many bloody titles.
Gennady Golovkin's Manager Rips Felix Sturm and N'Dam
Oleg Hermann, manager of WBA "regular" middleweight champion Gennady Golovkin, is upset that his boxer is unable to secure fights with Felix Sturm, the WBA's "super champion" at middleweight, and the WBA's interim-champion Hassan N'Dam. Golovkin will face Kassim Ouma in early June, while Sturm fights British boxer Matthew Macklin on June 25. The WBA has ordered Golovkin and N'Dam to fight each other by the fall and Sturm has to face the winner.
"It is very hard to find a good opponent. Everybody knows that Felix Sturm is afraid of Gennady. Strictly speaking, Sturm should get out of boxing and become a marathon runner because he is running fast and long. He has an excellent chance to become a champion in athletics. Obviously, Hassan N'Dam has already gone into hiding. I hope they are running in circles because by the end of the summer they are going to re-appear in our path. The WBA has already ordered N'Dam to fight Gennady, and then it's going to be Sturm's turn," Hermann said.
Sturm: Pirog is The Toughest To Beat, Golovkin Overrated
WBA "super" middleweight champion Felix Sturm is days away from a scheduled defense against undefeated British boxer Martin Murray. The year is almost over and several challengers are ready to take Sturm on. Sturm sat down with Abendblatt and discussed a number of subjects - including the reasons for the failed negotiations to make a rematch with Matthew Macklin, whether he plans to face his mandatory Gennady Golovkin and more.e art.
On the rematch with Macklin: -
It didn't take place because Macklin did not want to fight. At the end of the negotiations, we offered him 70% more than he received in the first fight. However, he only had excuses.
Possible opponents: -
Without a doubt, the most dangerous is the Russian boxer, WBO champion Dmitry Pirog. He is the most difficult to beat because his style is very complex. Argentinean Sergio Martinez is also very strong, but [his style] is more convenient for me, and the same goes for the Australian - IBF champion Daniel Geale and the WBC champion Julio Cesar Chavez from Mexico.
Regarding mandatory challenger Gennady Golovkin -
We'll see. Golovkin - is one of many potential competitors. I think he's immensely overrated by his advisers. I would have fought with him at any time.
^^^ He's called him overrated here.. He said he would have fought him at any time?
Pirog Believes Felix Sturm Will Struggle With Golovkin
WBO world middleweight champion Dmitry Pirog believes WBA champion Felix Sturm (36-2, 15KOs) will struggle when he finally meets hard hitter Gennady Golovkin (21-0, 18KOs). Sturm is the WBA's "super champion" at 160-pounds, while Golovkin is the "regular champion" at 160. The WBA ordered Sturm to defend the title against Golovkin, the current mandatory challenger, but the sanctioning body has not forced the issue to make this fight happen.
Based on Sturm's recent performances, a controversial split decision win over Matthew Macklin and a close twelve round draw with the far less experienced Martin Murray, Pirog feels the German boxer will have problems when he steps in the ring a heavy handed boxer like Golovkin.
"I think [Felix Sturm] has ceased to develop as a boxer. I've been able to form this opinion on the basis of his recent fights. If he is to meet Gennady Golovkin in the near future, I think that it's going to be difficult for him," Pirog said.
In a recent interview, Sturm praised Pirog and called him "the most difficult" fighter to beat at 160-pounds. Sturm feels Golovkin is "very overrated."
Golovkin’s Manager: N’Jikam Has Refused to Fight Gennady
Oleg Hermann, manager of WBA “regular” middleweight champion Gennady Golovkin (22-0, 19 KOs), informed Allboxing.ru, that certain obstacles have been removed to prevent a fight between his boxer and the WBA's "super champion" at 160-pounds, Felix Sturm (36-2-2, 15 KOs). A fight was ordered between Golovkin and WBA interim-champ Hassan N’Dam N’Jikam (26-0, 17 KOs), but on Wednesday night the French boxer vacated his title and walked away from the fight.
“WBA interim champion Hassan N’Dam N’Jikam (26-0, 17 KOs) has relinquished his title and his chance to fight Gennady. A purse bid for this fight should have taken place on Thursday but hence N’Jikam had made a decision to withdraw for good. Given that, Gennady has no mandatory challenger ahead of him, he is absolutely free to hunt down Felix Sturm who is recognized as a super champion," said Hermann.
“Now we wait for the WBA to sanction the fight with Sturm. Gennady is the mandatory challenger to Felix. Maybe this fight will happen in April. The countdown for the collision is on."
Team Golovkin are going to receive a taste of bad news, as Sturm has reached an agreement to fight former WBC champion Sebastian Zbik on April 13 in Germany.
^^^ Is that a duck?
Drozd Surprised That Pirog Turned Down a Golovkin Bout
Russian cruiserweight Gregory Drozd is surprised that WBO middleweight champion Dmitry Pirog is not interested in fighting Gennady Golovkin, the WBA's "regular" champion at 160-pounds. Drozd, a rising cruiserweight, is good friends with both fighters. He knows Pirog well, due to their Russian roots, and he was stablemates with Golovkin when both boxers were promoted by Universum.
Pirog's handlers believe a fight with Golovkin is not the right move at the moment, because neither of them is well known in the United States, and the networks like HBO and Showtime are not interested in televising their bout.
"I know Dmitry very well. Of course, the situation that developed with him [not being able to secure big fights] is sad and strange. I would like it very much if he were to face the best boxers - like Felix Sturm or Sergio Martinez. However, he did not want to fight with Gennady Golovkin, whi I'm also on good terms with. We were stablemates under Universum. Gennady is a great guy, and so is Dmitry. So, in truth, I would not be very happy to see them beat each other up," Drozd said.
Pirog's team said no because they're both unknown in the US?
K2's Loeffler Ready To Make Geale-Golovkin Unification
A few days ago, the WBA ordered the winner of Sturm-Geale to face the winner of Golovkin-Proksa by early December.
HBO was very impressed by Golovkin's performance and the network wants to have him back as soon as possible. K2 is looking to secure a December date for Golovkin - in either Texas, Los Angeles or New York.
"The WBA issued that resolution on Thursday, that the winner of Golovkin-Proksa is the mandatory for Sturm and Geale. We're hoping now that Geale will defend the WBA title instead of vacating the title," Loeffler told BS.com.
For years, Sturm has avoided a fight with Golovkin. Loeffler has a lot more confidence in Geale stepping up to the plate.
"That's one obstacle out of the way as far as Sturm always being recognized as the super champion. That's one problem we had. Gennady couldn't unify the [WBA] title because Sturm was super champion, but we have more faith in Geale. He had a great performance in Germany, winning the title - and he actually had two great performances in Germany - the one against [Sebastian] Sylvester and then he came back and beat Sturm. We feel that Geale has a lot of heart and a lot of confidence in his abilities," Loeffler said.
Geale's American promoter, Gary Shaw, told BS on Saturday that he was open to making a Geale-Golovkin unification.
Gennady Golovkin Named Sole WBA Middleweight Champ
The World Boxing Association announced that Daniel Geale will be stripped of his “super champion” status and Gennady Golovkin is named as its sole WBA middleweight champion.
President Gilberto Mendoza made the declaration at the WBA’s 91st Annual Convention in Jakarta.
Geale won the WBA “Super Champion” title when he unified the WBA and IBF titles by winning a decision over existing WBA “Super Champion” Felix Sturm on September 1 in Oberhausen, Germany.
However, because of Sturm’s long overdue mandatory obligation to Golovkin, the WBA declared the winner of Sturm/Geale bout must face the winner of Golovkin/Grzegorz Proksa by December 31.
Golovkin defeated Proksa by stopping him in the fifth round in a very impressive performance. Geale has since declined to face Golovkin announcing he will fight Anthony Mundine in January 2013 in Australia.
“We commend the WBA for clearing up this long overdue situation and recognizing Gennady as their only champion in the middleweight division. Gennady is proud to be the WBA and IBO champion and looks forward to returning to the ring soon,” said Tom Loeffler of K2 Promotions.
Geale had a great win over Sturm in Germany, however he soon joined many others in avoiding Golovkin. Geale turned down a potential lucrative fight against Golovkin on HBO to sign for the Mundine fight.
“We don’t blame Geale and his team for taking a safer fight. However, they knew the obligations they would have prior to the Sturm fight. Geale is still IBF champion and if he continues to win, this might be a great unification fight in the future.”
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I'm tired. All of the above is Golovkin and his team trying to become 'full' WBA champion and unifying with Pirog. Obviously the fight was set, but Pirog suffered a career-ending injury.
Main boxer mentioned was Sturm, who kept stalling. I think GGG wasted too much time, but then probably though a fight would be foreced.. Also Hassan N'Dam clearly avoided GGG..
Whilst you've posted some interesting articles, I couldn't find any details within them relating to Team GGG, K2, Universum or HBO actually submitting an offer to one of Golovkin's peers.
For sure, they tried the mandatory challenger route, but there's a strange absence of any financial offers from Golovkin's representatives to face his big name rivals.
Golovkin wasn’t the mandatory challenger for the vast majority of the guys I named, but they didn’t receive any offers to face GGG. If these guys don’t chase Gennady, does this mean they “ducked” him, despite an apparent offer from K2?
People criticise Adonis Stevenson’s title reign, but an awful lot of fighters refused to exploit opportunities to face him, either via the mandatory challenger route or via title eliminators. So does that mean that he was “ducked” also?
In a way, I kind of agree with you, GGG’s poor resume isn’t really his fault. HBO & K2 should have done a far better job with him.
He’s doing alright now though, but that’s because GBP were the risk takers for two of Gennady’s biggest paydays, not K2.
Similarly, for Gennady’s third career best payday, it was Matchroom that funded that bout, not K2.
There’s a pattern going on here, but it seems I’m the only one that can see it.
Thanks for all the research though. It's a joy to discuss things with someone that makes the effort.
For the record, didn't Hassan N’Dam N’Jikam vacate his interim WBA title in preference to being elevated to becoming the full WBO world champion? His decision makes sense, since that belt holds more prestige than the WBA regular title.
Re: How Will We Remember Gennady Golovkin’s Career?
Posted: 18 Sep 2018, 09:26
by Ricky
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑18 Sep 2018, 03:50
Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑18 Sep 2018, 02:58
RKY wrote: ↑17 Sep 2018, 23:53
Give me a break Jam. He could only beat the world title contenders that are around. He would need a time machine to please you so he could face Hagler. He's a great MW but he's no Marty McFly. We get it.
It’s not his fault other champions wouldn’t fight him. Sturm he chased for a long time before he moved to USA. Martinez, Geale (he eventually fought), Cotto, JCC Jr.
None of them wanted to fight him, they always had other options where it was less risky and where would make more money.
For the record, I’m not saying you’re wrong, but I’m curious to know if there is any record of anyone affiliated with K2 or Tom Loeffler making offers to certain fighters that supposedly “ducked” Gennady Golovkin?
He’s been a world-rated fighter since 2008, captured his first world title during 2010 and made his debut with HBO in September 2012 and has remained with that network ever since.
However, as far as I’m concerned, there is very little evidence of K2 ever initiating fight contract negotiations with any of GGG’s middleweight peers since 2008 and I have also been less than impressed about HBO’s efforts to promote the supremely-talented Kazakh puncher.
I can’t help thinking that Tom Loeffler & HBO should have made more of an effort to initiate contract negotiations with some of these men that were active middleweights around the same time as Golovkin being world-rated:
• Andy Lee
• Anthony Mundine
• Arthur Abraham
• Daniel Geale (prime, not the shot version)
• Darren Barker
• Dmitry Pirog
• Felix Sturm
• Jermain Taylor
• Julio Cesar Chavez Jr.
• Kelly Pavlik
• Paul Williams
• Peter Quillin
• Sam Soliman
• Sergio Martinez
If Team GGG tried to make these fights, but failed, because they couldn’t offer these guys enough money to share the ring with Golovkin, then fair enough - they at least did "something".
However, I really doubt that Tom Loeffler even made the effort in the first place… and I can’t find any evidence to suggest otherwise, but I’m happy to be proven wrong about this.
I know that Tom Loeffler previously made false claims about Andre Ward and Billy Joe Saunders and there are videos of both fighters challenging the K2 boss to his face and criticising him for his actions, which were met with silence. I'm sure you're aware of both of these situations.
I guess that Tom is just like any promoter since he either severely embellishes the truth or makes false claims to gain the attention of the media.
Also when GGG's bout against Canelo fell through during Cinco de Mayo, his team (Tom Loeffler) had more than nine weeks to arrange for a replacement, but they never made any attempt to contact any world-rated opposition, because instead they opted to face the terribly dire Vanes Martirosyan, yet people say this wasn’t Gennady's fault either, despite the Kazakh being self-promoted.
I’m genuinely curious to know if you can provide any proof that “nobody wanted to fight GGG”, because I trust your opinion and you are one of the very few people to studiously follow the sport as closely as I do?
I didn't read your post fergus cause you're boring but i noticed the list. Golovkin would have smashed any of those names to pieces and everyone knows it.
Re: How Will We Remember Gennady Golovkin’s Career?
Posted: 18 Sep 2018, 11:03
by Ruthless-RKO
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑18 Sep 2018, 08:58
For the record, didn't Hassan N’Dam N’Jikam vacate his interim WBA title in preference to being elevated to becoming the full WBO world champion? His decision makes sense, since that belt holds more prestige than the WBA regular title.
One way of looking at it.
Another way is, he would have rather fought anyone else to win a full world title than engage with GGG to become a 'regular' champion..
I'd rather fight Max Bursak to win a world title.. than GGG..
Re: How Will We Remember Gennady Golovkin’s Career?
Posted: 20 Sep 2018, 12:40
by gilgamesh
A great run as a Middleweight Champion, with more title defenses via KO than any other Middleweight Champion in the sports history. That ain't bad.
The story may not be done being written yet either. I can see him picking up another title or so before the story ends.
Re: How Will We Remember Gennady Golovkin’s Career?
Posted: 20 Sep 2018, 12:49
by RScarf1
How will we remember Canelo’s career after he loses to Charlo or Jacobs?
Re: How Will We Remember Gennady Golovkin’s Career?
Posted: 20 Sep 2018, 12:51
by gilgamesh
RScarf1 wrote: ↑20 Sep 2018, 12:49
How will we remember Canelo’s career after he loses to Charlo or Jacobs?
He's still young, so there's still a lot he may yet do, but if he retired now he'd be remembered as a Promoters pet who always received the benefit of the doubt in close fights. Albeit a legitimately good and talented fighter.
Re: How Will We Remember Gennady Golovkin’s Career?
Posted: 20 Sep 2018, 12:52
by Oiky
gilgamesh wrote: ↑20 Sep 2018, 12:51
RScarf1 wrote: ↑20 Sep 2018, 12:49
How will we remember Canelo’s career after he loses to Charlo or Jacobs?
He's still young, so there's still a lot he may yet do, but if he retired now he'd be remembered as a Promoters pet who always received the benefit of the doubt in close fights. Albeit a legitimately good and talented fighter.
Make you right
Re: How Will We Remember Gennady Golovkin’s Career?
Posted: 20 Sep 2018, 14:23
by boxing_rocks
RScarf1 wrote: ↑20 Sep 2018, 12:49
How will we remember Canelo’s career after he loses to Charlo or Jacobs?
He will not. He has enough to last 12 rounds, and that all it takes for him to win.
Re: How Will We Remember Gennady Golovkin’s Career?
Posted: 20 Sep 2018, 16:39
by pound per pound
ironbeard wrote: ↑17 Sep 2018, 12:40
GGG, even if he had been awarded both Canelo victories that I believe that he deserved, is not a top shelf MW historically. He is just below top shelf.
GGG has always been slow, vulnerable to the body, and less than excellent when pressured. He was just never faced with top level comp that could exploit that until Canelo. GGG fanboys can now point to his age as a rational for his less than stellar performances vs Jacobs and Canelo, but it really comes down to level of competition.
Many have claimed that he could have moved up and ruled 168. Clearly, given his performances over the last year and a half, he would be in deep water with the top level big pressure SMWs. He would have certainly ruled the journeymen at that level though.
It is still unfortunate that he did not get a W a year ago and at least a draw on Saturday. He deserved it and we would likely have seen him in another big fight to cement his legacy.
Now, it is likely that his level has been established as a very good but not great MW, historically; along the lines of Sergio Martinez, who fought similar level competition.
GGG was pretty fast handed in his prime. He's only slow now at age 36, I think he'll end up in the hall of fame, viewed better than Martinez. Many think he's still undefeated, and he broke Hopkins title record technically speaking as Bernard has a no contest in the streak that should not count.