BoxRec

gilgamesh wrote: ↑22 Sep 2018, 20:52

Luis Fernando12 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2018, 20:51

Mexi-Box wrote: ↑22 Sep 2018, 20:03

Completely wrong. Povetkin was schooling that boy up until his age got to him. Man, too bad no one wanted to fight him when he was on that streak against Charr, Takam, etc. He would've stopped Joshua and Wilder on the same night.

Povetkin looked like a total feather fist in there, with the punching of a little girl. Maximum powered punches after maximum powered punches, flush on Joshua's chin / face / head and they just bounced off like absolutely nothing. It was the difference between a man and his 10 year old son. Joshua made Povetkin look like his little child.

Joshua took it easy on Povetkin and when he decided to finally end it, he landed just one flush punch on Povetkin and Povetkin's chin just shattered into multiple pieces.

Povetkin was exposed as a blown up light heavyweight in there. He could NEVER EVER beat Joshua. A serious Joshua blasts him out in the first round.

What the f*ck fight were you watching? He stunned Joshua noticeably more than once, and was clearly giving him hell. You strike me as a troll because I have a hard time believing anybody is this stupid.

I think Joshua decided to initially box. But then decided to end it and he only needed one punch, Povetkin doesn't have anywhere close to that power.

Povetkin barely hurt Joshua with flush punches. Otherwise, we would've seen at least one knockdown. But where was that knockdown? If you're not dropping someone who has a suspect chin like Joshua with multiple of your best flush punches, then you're power has to be seriously considered lacking.

Povetkin is super skilled. The most skilled in the heavyweight division P4P. But is too feather fisted and light hitting to be a threat at the highest level, when he couldn't even hurt a suspect chinned Joshua. This is just the reality. And his own body is too weak for the heavyweight division.

Povetkin is like Lomachenko fighting at 154 pounds with insane size and power disadvantages, but with extremely high level skills.

I don't think he has extremely high level skills myself, but he was able to give AJ a hard time. I wouldn't say Joshua has a "suspect chin" he's only been dropped once in his Pro career by a bona fide puncher. Sparring stories of him getting dropped mean dick.

personally ive always seen pov as kinda an educated slugger. hes not some really crude lemieux type but not really a skillful boxer type. notably hes lacking a serious jab, which a lot of ppl seriously underestimate as a tool for shorter fighters to use. because of the lack of jab hes sometimes overlunged and lost balance trying to get in just with powershots, and because of this also walked onto to shots too much.

i will say that he can throw some lovely compact combos with those hooks, uppercuts, ana overhand rights. he might be the best close range combo puncher and maybe combo puncher in general at hw

Shorter than 6'4"? It goes by weight not height, but the necessity for more heavy weight divisions - and less light weight divisions - has been my pet peeve for years. Povetkin is a big guy, 230 lbs. So where does that leave guys just over 200, like i was when i was boxing?

Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑22 Sep 2018, 21:21 Shorter than 6'4"? It goes by weight not height, but the necessity for more heavy weight divisions - and less light weight divisions - has been my pet peeve for years. Povetkin is a big guy, 230 lbs. So where does that leave guys just over 200, like i was when i was boxing?

You learn to fight better so you can beat bigger guys. Simple.

If there's ever a Higher weight class introduced than Heavyweight I'm done with this sport because I would consider it an absolute insult to the sports history.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑22 Sep 2018, 20:52

Luis Fernando12 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2018, 20:51

Mexi-Box wrote: ↑22 Sep 2018, 20:03

Completely wrong. Povetkin was schooling that boy up until his age got to him. Man, too bad no one wanted to fight him when he was on that streak against Charr, Takam, etc. He would've stopped Joshua and Wilder on the same night.

Povetkin looked like a total feather fist in there, with the punching of a little girl. Maximum powered punches after maximum powered punches, flush on Joshua's chin / face / head and they just bounced off like absolutely nothing. It was the difference between a man and his 10 year old son. Joshua made Povetkin look like his little child.

Joshua took it easy on Povetkin and when he decided to finally end it, he landed just one flush punch on Povetkin and Povetkin's chin just shattered into multiple pieces.

Povetkin was exposed as a blown up light heavyweight in there. He could NEVER EVER beat Joshua. A serious Joshua blasts him out in the first round.

What the f*ck fight were you watching? He stunned Joshua noticeably more than once, and was clearly giving him hell. You strike me as a troll because I have a hard time believing anybody is this stupid.

He's a total idiot. Was completely proven wrong and can't come to facts. I think it was him that said this fight was a mismatch because Joshua looks like a bodybuilder and Povetkin is a chubby, short guy.

The HW division today is looking insanely less talented than the "weak" era Klitschko reigned.

I don't know if it's a weaker division necessarily. Definitely seems to be a more competitive division across the board.

Usyk will dance rings around Joshua, but most likely gets robbed in one of the most biased places to hold a stake in boxing - the UK.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑22 Sep 2018, 14:50

tiny_acres wrote: ↑22 Sep 2018, 14:39

Lackeos wrote: ↑22 Sep 2018, 14:33 I know I've read some posters who claim Usyk would beat Joshua. I wonder how many people think Usyk will be an elite heavyweight and who also would vote "Yes" in this poll.

The size matters movement will never admit they're wrong.
There will be 6'3" dominant heavyweights again. A 3 or 4 inch height advantage has been conquered numerous times and will continue

OK, whom are you referring to?

tiny_acres: Sometime in the next infinity years, there will be an elite heavyweight who is 6' 3" or smaller.
Enlightened-One: I don't believe you unless you can tell me the exact name of who is going to be elite in the year 2055.

Afonin looks like, fights like and trains with Povetkin so there's that, coming to a ring near you in the future.

Blodhemn wrote: ↑22 Sep 2018, 23:50 Usyk will dance rings around Joshua, but most likely gets robbed in one of the most biased places to hold a stake in boxing - the UK.

Why must all the high profile boxing matches be held in places that are known to run crooked shows? Answer: Follow the money.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑22 Sep 2018, 21:22

Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑22 Sep 2018, 21:21 Shorter than 6'4"? It goes by weight not height, but the necessity for more heavy weight divisions - and less light weight divisions - has been my pet peeve for years. Povetkin is a big guy, 230 lbs. So where does that leave guys just over 200, like i was when i was boxing?

You learn to fight better so you can beat bigger guys. Simple.

If there's ever a Higher weight class introduced than Heavyweight I'm done with this sport because I would consider it an absolute insult to the sports history.

That cavalier "you learn fight better" statement only applies to certain people though, huh? Get rid of all the ridiculous 2 or 3 pound light weight divisions - or even the 6 pound super middleweight division - and maybe just make 3 or 4 weight divisions in boxing and if they dont like fighting bigger guys let them learn to fight better. Or else reorganize the boxing weight classes in a way that makes sense. Thats what i say.

There might be a 6’3 champion in the future but will we ever see a another 5’11-6’0, 15 1/2 stone champ again?

I find it hard to believe that even fighters like Frazier or Tyson could regularly overcome 6+ inch height differences giving up over 2 stone in weight to fighters who tallented and are in shape, not the guys who tip the scales at 17st today but would be 15st if they bothered with conditioning, guys like Klitschko and Joshua.

The top three weight classes don’t make any sense. 12st 7, 14st 4, then unlimited, but in practical terms the avarage weight is around 17st for a top heavyweight now. Those are big jumps which leave fighters stuck with mismatches.

Where would a young Tyson fight today? He couldn’t get down to cruiser with his body type but how would he have handled the Klitschko brothers, Joshua and Fury? I’m not sure even his skills could overcome the good super heavyweights of today who can manage distance so well.

Povetkin is a proficient boxer and yes he has beaten big men before, but his best fights came against fighters of a similar stature where his boxing skills really showed, throwing 4-5 punch combos rather than having to leap in with 1’s and 2’s in an attempt to close distance.

20 years ago a super heavyweight division wouldn’t have had enough fighters to sustain it, today I think it could. The top weight categories are due an adjustment. Unless this is done, we won’t get to see the best of many fighters who are starting to fall through the ever widening gaps in the weight classes.

You guys are dreaming if you think the great Heavyweights of the past would be completely out of their depth in the modern era. Great fighters will always find a way to overcome what's in front of them.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑23 Sep 2018, 12:30 You guys are dreaming if you think the great Heavyweights of the past would be completely out of their depth in the modern era. Great fighters will always find a way to overcome what's in front of them.

x2.................

gilgamesh wrote: ↑22 Sep 2018, 20:54

gregregegg wrote: ↑22 Sep 2018, 20:15 I think usyk will move up and be an elite lele 6'3 220'sish pound heavy weight.

He's not a big puncher so his speed, and movement will be his biggest asset at Heavyweight. He shouldn't ever weigh more than 210 or 215 considering that. Maybe even 205.

Luis Fernando12 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2018, 13:18
After the inevitable / guaranteed defeat and total demolition of Povetkin, which other 'small heavyweight' can reach elite level, or even higher, if anybody can?

These 2 are already 'elite level' small HW's imo. Both walk around at ~220lbs
Have some patience ffs. Usyk is the WBO 'super champion and can be mandatory for the HW belt & Gassiev will come into his 'prime' after the big guys have taken chunks out of each other

Well 210 or 215 then.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑23 Sep 2018, 19:49 Well 210 or 215 then.

Usyk knows what weight suits him. He was schooling guys like Joshua in the amateurs. What you're doing is like telling the pope to read the Bible .

Usyk WILL clean out the HW division and it will be glorious!

Pukka Cheese wrote: ↑23 Sep 2018, 18:23

gilgamesh wrote: ↑22 Sep 2018, 20:54

gregregegg wrote: ↑22 Sep 2018, 20:15 I think usyk will move up and be an elite lele 6'3 220'sish pound heavy weight.

He's not a big puncher so his speed, and movement will be his biggest asset at Heavyweight. He shouldn't ever weigh more than 210 or 215 considering that. Maybe even 205.

Luis Fernando12 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2018, 13:18
After the inevitable / guaranteed defeat and total demolition of Povetkin, which other 'small heavyweight' can reach elite level, or even higher, if anybody can?

These 2 are already 'elite level' small HW's imo. Both walk around at ~220lbs
Have some patience ffs. Usyk is the WBO 'super champion and can be mandatory for the HW belt & Gassiev will come into his 'prime' after the big guys have taken chunks out of each other

I have high hopes for Oleksandr Usyk! Fingers crossed for him! He makes Povetkin look like a TOTAL fat and overweight bum, with the boxing skills of a 60 year old cab driver. That's how much superior Usyk is to the relatively inferior Russian breed that is Alexander Povetkin.

Usyk is the REAL DEAL and the REAL SASHA! Whilst Povetkin is just a fake one / fake imitation. Povetkin wishes he was even half as skilled as his Ukrainian boxing master / boxing god that happens to be Oleksandr Usyk.

Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑22 Sep 2018, 21:21 Shorter than 6'4"? It goes by weight not height, but the necessity for more heavy weight divisions - and less light weight divisions - has been my pet peeve for years. Povetkin is a big guy, 230 lbs. So where does that leave guys just over 200, like i was when i was boxing?

Well guys like who who are bit over 200 should bulk up to 215 with low fat and then cut water to make 200 and fight at cruiser.

Just earlier this year Hunter fought against Kiladze. Both weighted at 218 and half. Both in good shape. Both were fighting earlier at cruiser weight. Just to give you an example of the modern cruisers.

I think Usyk would fight around 220-230 after spending couple of years at HW.

Heretic wrote: ↑24 Sep 2018, 07:19

Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑22 Sep 2018, 21:21 Shorter than 6'4"? It goes by weight not height, but the necessity for more heavy weight divisions - and less light weight divisions - has been my pet peeve for years. Povetkin is a big guy, 230 lbs. So where does that leave guys just over 200, like i was when i was boxing?

Well guys like who who are bit over 200 should bulk up to 215 with low fat and then cut water to make 200 and fight at cruiser.

Just earlier this year Hunter fought against Kiladze. Both weighted at 218 and half. Both in good shape. Both were fighting earlier at cruiser weight. Just to give you an example of the modern cruisers.

I think Usyk would fight around 220-230 after spending couple of years at HW.

But you guys and your advice about bulking up or trimming down always only applies to a very select group, men weighing between, say 200-220 pounds...but not to everybody else! Everybody else gets tailor made weight classes. How can you justify that?'

Pukka Cheese wrote: ↑23 Sep 2018, 18:23

gilgamesh wrote: ↑22 Sep 2018, 20:54

gregregegg wrote: ↑22 Sep 2018, 20:15 I think usyk will move up and be an elite lele 6'3 220'sish pound heavy weight.

He's not a big puncher so his speed, and movement will be his biggest asset at Heavyweight. He shouldn't ever weigh more than 210 or 215 considering that. Maybe even 205.

Luis Fernando12 wrote: ↑22 Sep 2018, 13:18
After the inevitable / guaranteed defeat and total demolition of Povetkin, which other 'small heavyweight' can reach elite level, or even higher, if anybody can?

These 2 are already 'elite level' small HW's imo. Both walk around at ~220lbs
Have some patience ffs. Usyk is the WBO 'super champion and can be mandatory for the HW belt & Gassiev will come into his 'prime' after the big guys have taken chunks out of each other

To be honest. The WBC check weigh ins, you have to weigh a certain amount.

Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑24 Sep 2018, 14:53

Heretic wrote: ↑24 Sep 2018, 07:19

Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑22 Sep 2018, 21:21 Shorter than 6'4"? It goes by weight not height, but the necessity for more heavy weight divisions - and less light weight divisions - has been my pet peeve for years. Povetkin is a big guy, 230 lbs. So where does that leave guys just over 200, like i was when i was boxing?

Well guys like who who are bit over 200 should bulk up to 215 with low fat and then cut water to make 200 and fight at cruiser.

Just earlier this year Hunter fought against Kiladze. Both weighted at 218 and half. Both in good shape. Both were fighting earlier at cruiser weight. Just to give you an example of the modern cruisers.

I think Usyk would fight around 220-230 after spending couple of years at HW.

But you guys and your advice about bulking up or trimming down always only applies to a very select group, men weighing between, say 200-220 pounds...but not to everybody else! Everybody else gets tailor made weight classes. How can you justify that?'

You are still missing the point here. a boxer who weights 220 when very fit is pretty much the perfect size for cruiser. Boxer who weights between 195 - 205 is the one who has a problem. If he fights at cruiser hes going to have 15-20 pounds of size disadvantage in the ring. He is the one who needs to either trim down to fit in lightheavy or bulk up with muscles to make up for the size disadvantage.

Heretic wrote: ↑25 Sep 2018, 01:03

Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑24 Sep 2018, 14:53

Heretic wrote: ↑24 Sep 2018, 07:19

Well guys like who who are bit over 200 should bulk up to 215 with low fat and then cut water to make 200 and fight at cruiser.

Just earlier this year Hunter fought against Kiladze. Both weighted at 218 and half. Both in good shape. Both were fighting earlier at cruiser weight. Just to give you an example of the modern cruisers.

I think Usyk would fight around 220-230 after spending couple of years at HW.

But you guys and your advice about bulking up or trimming down always only applies to a very select group, men weighing between, say 200-220 pounds...but not to everybody else! Everybody else gets tailor made weight classes. How can you justify that?'

You are still missing the point here. a boxer who weights 220 when very fit is pretty much the perfect size for cruiser. Boxer who weights between 195 - 205 is the one who has a problem. If he fights at cruiser hes going to have 15-20 pounds of size disadvantage in the ring. He is the one who needs to either trim down to fit in lightheavy or bulk up with muscles to make up for the size disadvantage.

Heretic wrote: ↑25 Sep 2018, 01:03

Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑24 Sep 2018, 14:53

Heretic wrote: ↑24 Sep 2018, 07:19

Well guys like who who are bit over 200 should bulk up to 215 with low fat and then cut water to make 200 and fight at cruiser.

Just earlier this year Hunter fought against Kiladze. Both weighted at 218 and half. Both in good shape. Both were fighting earlier at cruiser weight. Just to give you an example of the modern cruisers.

I think Usyk would fight around 220-230 after spending couple of years at HW.

But you guys and your advice about bulking up or trimming down always only applies to a very select group, men weighing between, say 200-220 pounds...but not to everybody else! Everybody else gets tailor made weight classes. How can you justify that?'

You are still missing the point here. a boxer who weights 220 when very fit is pretty much the perfect size for cruiser. Boxer who weights between 195 - 205 is the one who has a problem. If he fights at cruiser hes going to have 15-20 pounds of size disadvantage in the ring. He is the one who needs to either trim down to fit in lightheavy or bulk up with muscles to make up for the size disadvantage.

That doesn't even make sense to me. Cruiser is up to 200, not 220. It used to be up to 190, and for many years before that it was just 175 and up is heavyweight. When i was boxing i felt my perfect weight was 210. I'm 6', 6'1" on a good day. Luckily i never ran into any super sized heavies like the Klitschkos. Extremely athletic giants like that are really quite rare. How often do you see them on the street? But you'd think they were pretty common if you just looked at the top ranks of heavyweight boxing, and that's because giants like that have come to dominate the division. Someone my size would have a huge size handicap to overcome, a handicap that ONLY applies to someone around my size. Look at how they were saying that Povetkin is too small, and hes 230! The whole weight division setup in boxing is antiquated, illogical, inconsistent, and unfair.

Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑24 Sep 2018, 14:53

Heretic wrote: ↑25 Sep 2018, 01:03

Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑24 Sep 2018, 14:53


But you guys and your advice about bulking up or trimming down always only applies to a very select group, men weighing between, say 200-220 pounds...but not to everybody else! Everybody else gets tailor made weight classes. How can you justify that?'

You are still missing the point here. a boxer who weights 220 when very fit is pretty much the perfect size for cruiser. Boxer who weights between 195 - 205 is the one who has a problem. If he fights at cruiser hes going to have 15-20 pounds of size disadvantage in the ring. He is the one who needs to either trim down to fit in lightheavy or bulk up with muscles to make up for the size disadvantage.

That doesn't even make sense to me. Cruiser is up to 200, not 220. It used to be up to 190, and for many years before that it was just 175 and up is heavyweight. When i was boxing i felt my perfect weight was 210. I'm 6', 6'1" on a good day. Luckily i never ran into any super sized heavies like the Klitschkos. Extremely athletic giants like that are really quite rare. How often do you see them on the street? But you'd think they were pretty common if you just looked at the top ranks of heavyweight boxing, and that's because giants like that have come to dominate the division. Someone my size would have a huge size handicap to overcome, a handicap that ONLY applies to someone around my size. Look at how they were saying that Povetkin is too small, and hes 230! The whole weight division setup in boxing is antiquated, illogical, inconsistent, and unfair.

If your perfect fighting weight was 210 then you would be close to the perfect weight for cruiser. Just add about 5 pound of muscle mass and cut 15 pound of water to make it trough the weight in day before. Then rehydrate back to 215 for the fight.

Povetkin would need to drop 10-15 pounds of weight. He probably has enough fat to drop that anyway. If not he would need to do less weight training and more cardio like jogging for example to drop the muscle mass by just few pounds.

Povetkin is too small HW because he is actually cruiser weight by size.