Page 2 of 2
Re: The HW champion = the absolute champion, yes or no ?
Posted: 26 Nov 2018, 15:47
by Ruthless-RKO
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑26 Nov 2018, 15:33
Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑26 Nov 2018, 15:29
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑26 Nov 2018, 15:24
No I'm not, he never belonged.
Really.. He beat every good HW for a stretch of 10 years.. With maybe one or 2 names missing. One being Vitali.
The two best fighters he beat, haye and povetkin, his greatest asset was his size.
Chris Byrd x2
Ring No. 3 ranked Ruslan Chagaev
Pulev?
Just name a few others.
Re: The HW champion = the absolute champion, yes or no ?
Posted: 26 Nov 2018, 15:50
by Onetimeonly
Were any of those guys p4p fighters? Not to me. Wlad would have never cracked my top 20. Byrd is even smaller than the two I mentioned.
Re: The HW champion = the absolute champion, yes or no ?
Posted: 26 Nov 2018, 16:12
by Mexi-Box
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑26 Nov 2018, 15:50
Were any of those guys p4p fighters? Not to me.
Wlad would have never cracked my top 20. Byrd is even smaller than the two I mentioned.
You're getting ridiculous now. You may as well have no one in the p4p top 10. Crawford never beat a p4p fighter, nor is his resume comparable to Klitschko's undefeated streak. Povetkin and Pulev have both went on to be consistent top 10 fighters.
I've not checked, but I don't think anyone on Crawford's resume is even in the top 10 anymore. Maybe Postol.
Re: The HW champion = the absolute champion, yes or no ?
Posted: 26 Nov 2018, 16:51
by Onetimeonly
Crawford hasn't fought anyone at a severe size disadvantage either. If you think wlads skill was the main reason he beat Byrd, povetkin and haye more power to you. I don't.
Re: The HW champion = the absolute champion, yes or no ?
Posted: 26 Nov 2018, 17:35
by gilgamesh
Being the Heavyweight Champion in Boxing used to mean a lot more when there was only ONE Heavyweight Champion. When you got multiple Champs per weight class it waters down the idea of being Champion.
Re: The HW champion = the absolute champion, yes or no ?
Posted: 26 Nov 2018, 18:39
by ironbeard
AJ is the HW Champion of the World. All others must go through him for that title. AJ is in my top 10 P4P.
I do consider him the king of the boxing world.
Re: The HW champion = the absolute champion, yes or no ?
Posted: 27 Nov 2018, 00:15
by Mexi-Box
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑26 Nov 2018, 16:51
Crawford hasn't fought anyone at a severe size disadvantage either. If you think wlads skill was the main reason he beat Byrd, povetkin and haye more power to you. I don't.
Dude, Gamboa, one of his best wins, was at a gigantic size disadvantage. I think Crawford had like 10+ lbs. on him on fight night. Klitschko would've lost to Pulev if he wasn't so severely skilled. He took away Pulev's elite jab.
Re: The HW champion = the absolute champion, yes or no ?
Posted: 27 Nov 2018, 00:34
by squiggy
To me it's silly to think big boxers are automatically better. Of course Fury would knock out Inoue, but so what? Weight classes exist, and boxing is about more than brute force. If you turned a grizzly bear loose in the ring it'd tear Fury up, but that wouldn't make it a better boxer.
Re: The HW champion = the absolute champion, yes or no ?
Posted: 27 Nov 2018, 00:40
by Lackeos
The heavyweight champion is generally the guy who would beat everybody. Exception being if one or more cruiserweights or light heavyweights are capable of beating him, and that's not going to happen very often in the era of 6' 6", 245 pound heavyweight champions. It was a lot more plausible when the heavyweight champion was 5' 10", 188 pounds.
Re: The HW champion = the absolute champion, yes or no ?
Posted: 27 Nov 2018, 10:47
by DrDuke
Heavyweights always had something special, attracting. Obviously divisions are for the reason, so no surprise, that a heavyweight will beat up anyone from lower classes. Unless he's as bad as Charr or John Ruiz, etc. Heavyweights are generally the biggest and the strongest guys. The possibility of KOs in their matches is the biggest.
Re: The HW champion = the absolute champion, yes or no ?
Posted: 27 Nov 2018, 11:51
by Pukka Cheese
KiwiRider wrote: ↑26 Nov 2018, 14:21
There is a cruiser who could probably beat most of the heavyweights.
But no way are the top HW's any where near as skilled as guys like Garcia/Loma/Crawford/Uysk
To say Wilder or Joshua are top of the boxers is an insult to the guys I have named.
Couldnt put it better myself.
Re: The HW champion = the absolute champion, yes or no ?
Posted: 27 Nov 2018, 12:12
by ironbeard
Pukka Cheese wrote: ↑27 Nov 2018, 11:51
KiwiRider wrote: ↑26 Nov 2018, 14:21
There is a cruiser who could probably beat most of the heavyweights.
But no way are the top HW's any where near as skilled as guys like Garcia/Loma/Crawford/Uysk
To say Wilder or Joshua are top of the boxers is an insult to the guys I have named.
Couldnt put it better myself.
That is factoring in skill which I thought the other thread was doing. I have considered the HW champion the champion of champions in boxing for my entire life.There is nothing stopping any of the great boxers at the top of lower classes from jumping up to challenge for the champion of champions title. All comers are welcome.
AJ is currently the champ of champs in boxing. It is not about the skill, it is about the baddest man in boxing.
Re: The HW champion = the absolute champion, yes or no ?
Posted: 27 Nov 2018, 12:59
by DrDuke
ironbeard wrote: ↑27 Nov 2018, 12:12
Pukka Cheese wrote: ↑27 Nov 2018, 11:51
KiwiRider wrote: ↑26 Nov 2018, 14:21
There is a cruiser who could probably beat most of the heavyweights.
But no way are the top HW's any where near as skilled as guys like Garcia/Loma/Crawford/Uysk
To say Wilder or Joshua are top of the boxers is an insult to the guys I have named.
Couldnt put it better myself.
That is factoring in skill which I thought the other thread was doing. I have considered the HW champion the champion of champions in boxing for my entire life.There is nothing stopping any of the great boxers at the top of lower calasses from jumping up to challenge for the champion of champions title. All comers are welcome.
AJ is currently the camp of champs in boxing. It is not about the skill, it is about the baddest man in boxing.
I guess, I know, what you are talking about. That baddest man thing. Despite clear acknowledging of characteristics related to weight-classes (and also eras) people often try to match some fighter against the other ones, who are pretty unmatchable with the first one because of obvious advantages of the first one. So there's always a feeling about a good heavyweight champion, that he is that guy, the baddest bastard out there, who can beat everyone.
Re: The HW champion = the absolute champion, yes or no ?
Posted: 27 Nov 2018, 13:09
by ironbeard
DrDuke wrote: ↑27 Nov 2018, 12:59
ironbeard wrote: ↑27 Nov 2018, 12:12
Pukka Cheese wrote: ↑27 Nov 2018, 11:51
Couldnt put it better myself.
That is factoring in skill which I thought the other thread was doing. I have considered the HW champion the champion of champions in boxing for my entire life.There is nothing stopping any of the great boxers at the top of lower classes from jumping up to challenge for the champion of champions title. All comers are welcome.
AJ is currently the champ of champs in boxing. It is not about the skill, it is about the baddest man in boxing.
I guess, I know, what you are talking about. That baddest man thing. Despite clear acknowledging of characteristics related to weight-classes (and also eras) people often try to match some fighter against the other ones, who are pretty unmatchable with the first one because of obvious advantages of the first one. So there's always a feeling about a good heavyweight champion, that he is that guy, the baddest bastard out there, who can beat everyone.
if Spence could beat AJ he would own the crown and sit at the mountain top.