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Re: very exciting era at heavies
Posted: 02 Dec 2018, 23:52
by Onetimeonly
People need to stop giving vitali credit for fighters wlad fought. His level of opposition. Was abysmal even in his abysmal era. He beat nobody of note and Joshua already has a better career by a good bit.
Re: very exciting era at heavies
Posted: 03 Dec 2018, 00:08
by victor-romeo
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑02 Dec 2018, 23:52
People need to stop giving vitali credit for fighters wlad fought. His level of opposition. Was abysmal even in his abysmal era. He beat nobody of note and Joshua already has a better career by a good bit.
Kirk Johnson , and Lennox Lewis fights where great, I think Vitali was the better fighter of the two brothers but fought fewer times, so Wlad is historically greater, As Far as AJ resume Whyte and the 41 Wlad Klitscko are his best scalps , I don't think AJ resume is better than Vitali's yet.
Re: very exciting era at heavies
Posted: 03 Dec 2018, 00:20
by Onetimeonly
Kirk Johnson looked like a beached whale. Povetkin is way better than anyone vitali beat. Not only does aj already have a better resume, it's crystal clear.
Re: very exciting era at heavies
Posted: 03 Dec 2018, 11:55
by victor-romeo
In my opinion Vitali Klitschko beats any iteration of Povetkin especially a 38 year old Povetkin that AJ beat.
Povetkin was a good heavyweight not great. Lets not forget when much younger Povetkin went life and death with cruiser weight Marco Huck, and small heavyweight Eddie Chambers lit Povetkin up in a challenging fight for Povetkin.
No Vitali Klitschko height, jab, subtle movement, chin and defensive skills way to much for Povetkin.
Re: very exciting era at heavies
Posted: 03 Dec 2018, 12:30
by Onetimeonly
I think he'd beat povetkin too. Fact is he never fought him. You need to stop letting him piggyback his brothers accomplishments. I think huck beat povetkin. the chambers fight wasnt close. fact remains, vitali never beat anyone in his class. big klits resume is ass past the good loss to lewis.
Re: very exciting era at heavies
Posted: 04 Dec 2018, 11:20
by DrDuke
Blodhemn wrote: ↑02 Dec 2018, 19:56
Eh, Usyk moving up to take on these oversized beasts will be the most exciting. Up until very recent, none of the top few HWs have even bothered to fight each other. Most HWs just aren't skilled and would lose to top 10 CW.
I believe, Usyk can be among top guys at the HWs, probably he'll even handle Wilder and Joshua, but not Fury. They have similar styles, but Fury's size and reach will be defining factors.
Re: very exciting era at heavies
Posted: 12 Dec 2018, 11:48
by DrDuke
getnada wrote: ↑12 Dec 2018, 05:00
DrDuke wrote: ↑02 Dec 2018, 07:32
getnada wrote: ↑02 Dec 2018, 05:56
Everybody should agree that AJ is on top after seeing this fight.
For me Fury is a top fighter. I can't call his Wilder fight anything except a win for him. And Wilder was considered #2 after Joshua prior to the fight. And Klitschko was defeated by Fury earlier and in a more convincing way, than in Joshua's case. So I rate Fury above Joshua and favor him against AJ as well.
Fury was just lucky that Klitschko had his worst performance in well over a decade that night, Fury knows that very well. This is the reason why Fury never gave Klitschko a rematch, and in fact still doesn't dare to do that.
Those stories about luck are just another excuses. Fury won, cause Klitschko had never faced such opponent before and was totally disoriented.
Re: very exciting era at heavies
Posted: 12 Dec 2018, 13:22
by Ilya Muromets
man wrote: ↑02 Dec 2018, 05:24
joshua is polished and a class act, fury the
guy coming back from the odds, deontay
the bad boy. all three giants that can really
challenge each other.
i for one maintain that AJ is top. just too
complete for both other men. must say i
am very surprised how well tyson did and
i think deontay has been exposed to an
extent in his first two fights against top ten
opposition in both the ortiz and the fury
bout as nothing but a right hand. his
management said after both fights that
we haven't seen the best of deontay wilder.
oh yes, we did. he can end a fight any time
with his power, but he is not able to make
a fight against a top contender and never
will be.
and as much as AJ and fury turned out to
be class acts, deontay's expressed desire
to kill someone in the ring is something i
never heard a top contender repeatedly
say. he looks sober and calm when he does
that act and someone should inform him
that this is a sport, not the military. and it
is quite telling to come from someone who
for most of his career refused to face danger
himself.
For all I know Wilder already killed the little guy in the goofy costume on the Spanish language TV show that he sucker punched with all his might. Has anyone seen him (they say it was a him but it could just as well have been a girl)?
Re: very exciting era at heavies
Posted: 12 Dec 2018, 16:43
by HeavyHitters
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑02 Dec 2018, 06:09
That fight was dramatic, far from exciting. I had a buddy come over for the fight and after it we watched my DVDs of the holy vs bowe trilogy. His mind was blown. Heavyweights combining for almost 200 punches in a Rd. Now less than 10 is a thriller
Yes, if you really want to see some exciting heavyweight fights, the Bowe/Holyfield trilogy is a good start.
You can/should also watch these, if you can find them:
Ike Ibeabuchi vs. David Tua ( high octane thru 12 rounds )
Oliver McCall vs. Bruce Seldon ( brutal brawl )
Riddick Bowe vs. Andrew Golota 1 & 2 ( intriguing and fowl filled )
Tommy Morrison vs. Razor Ruddock ( back n forth action )
Mike Tyson vs. Razor Ruddock 1 & 2 ( monster bombs )
Michael Moorer vs. Bert Cooper ( back n forth action )
Lennox Lewis vs. Evander Holyfield 1 & 2 ( great slugfests )
Ray Mercer vs. Tommy Morrison ( a most brutal knockout )
Re: very exciting era at heavies
Posted: 12 Dec 2018, 16:45
by HeavyHitters
DrDuke wrote: ↑12 Dec 2018, 11:48
getnada wrote: ↑12 Dec 2018, 05:00
DrDuke wrote: ↑02 Dec 2018, 07:32
For me Fury is a top fighter. I can't call his Wilder fight anything except a win for him. And Wilder was considered #2 after Joshua prior to the fight. And Klitschko was defeated by Fury earlier and in a more convincing way, than in Joshua's case. So I rate Fury above Joshua and favor him against AJ as well.
Fury was just lucky that Klitschko had his worst performance in well over a decade that night, Fury knows that very well. This is the reason why Fury never gave Klitschko a rematch, and in fact still doesn't dare to do that.
Those stories about luck are just another excuses. Fury won, cause Klitschko had never faced such opponent before and was totally disoriented.
Fury's "feints" alone were the main reason why Wlad couldn't get on track that night.
Re: very exciting era at heavies
Posted: 12 Dec 2018, 16:47
by oogiebe
HeavyHitters wrote: ↑12 Dec 2018, 16:45
DrDuke wrote: ↑12 Dec 2018, 11:48
getnada wrote: ↑12 Dec 2018, 05:00
Fury was just lucky that Klitschko had his worst performance in well over a decade that night, Fury knows that very well. This is the reason why Fury never gave Klitschko a rematch, and in fact still doesn't dare to do that.
Those stories about luck are just another excuses. Fury won, cause Klitschko had never faced such opponent before and was totally disoriented.
Fury's "feints" alone were the main reason why Wlad couldn't get on track that night.
I agree HH! Fury is perhaps the most annoying opponent I've seen in years. He just does everything so weird and what he does at a 6'9" body is unreal. I can't stand how much I'm starting to really like him!
Re: very exciting era at heavies
Posted: 12 Dec 2018, 18:16
by Onetimeonly
HeavyHitters wrote: ↑12 Dec 2018, 16:43
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑02 Dec 2018, 06:09
That fight was dramatic, far from exciting. I had a buddy come over for the fight and after it we watched my DVDs of the holy vs bowe trilogy. His mind was blown. Heavyweights combining for almost 200 punches in a Rd. Now less than 10 is a thriller
Yes, if you really want to see some exciting heavyweight fights, the Bowe/Holyfield trilogy is a good start.
You can/should also watch these, if you can find them:
Ike Ibeabuchi vs. David Tua ( high octane thru 12 rounds )
Oliver McCall vs. Bruce Seldon ( brutal brawl )
Riddick Bowe vs. Andrew Golota 1 & 2 ( intriguing and fowl filled )
Tommy Morrison vs. Razor Ruddock ( back n forth action )
Mike Tyson vs. Razor Ruddock 1 & 2 ( monster bombs )
Michael Moorer vs. Bert Cooper ( back n forth action )
Lennox Lewis vs. Evander Holyfield 1 & 2 ( great slugfests )
Ray Mercer vs. Tommy Morrison ( a most brutal knockout )
I have all of those except for McCall/seldon. Oddly, Ike/tua was underwhelming for me. A lot of that is probably due to not seeing it live. I assume you're being sarcastic with Lewis/holy. Stewart/sellers is insane.
Re: very exciting era at heavies
Posted: 12 Dec 2018, 18:20
by oogiebe
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑12 Dec 2018, 18:16
HeavyHitters wrote: ↑12 Dec 2018, 16:43
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑02 Dec 2018, 06:09
That fight was dramatic, far from exciting. I had a buddy come over for the fight and after it we watched my DVDs of the holy vs bowe trilogy. His mind was blown. Heavyweights combining for almost 200 punches in a Rd. Now less than 10 is a thriller
Yes, if you really want to see some exciting heavyweight fights, the Bowe/Holyfield trilogy is a good start.
You can/should also watch these, if you can find them:
Ike Ibeabuchi vs. David Tua ( high octane thru 12 rounds )
Oliver McCall vs. Bruce Seldon ( brutal brawl )
Riddick Bowe vs. Andrew Golota 1 & 2 ( intriguing and fowl filled )
Tommy Morrison vs. Razor Ruddock ( back n forth action )
Mike Tyson vs. Razor Ruddock 1 & 2 ( monster bombs )
Michael Moorer vs. Bert Cooper ( back n forth action )
Lennox Lewis vs. Evander Holyfield 1 & 2 ( great slugfests )
Ray Mercer vs. Tommy Morrison ( a most brutal knockout )
I have all of those except for McCall/seldon. Oddly, Ike/tua was underwhelming for me. A lot of that is probably due to not seeing it live. I assume you're being sarcastic with Lewis/holy. Stewart/sellers is insane.
Best "bombs away" HW fight of all time was Foreman/Lyle! I saw that live on TV and it was absolutely incredible.
Re: very exciting era at heavies
Posted: 12 Dec 2018, 18:32
by HeavyHitters
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑12 Dec 2018, 18:16
HeavyHitters wrote: ↑12 Dec 2018, 16:43
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑02 Dec 2018, 06:09
That fight was dramatic, far from exciting. I had a buddy come over for the fight and after it we watched my DVDs of the holy vs bowe trilogy. His mind was blown. Heavyweights combining for almost 200 punches in a Rd. Now less than 10 is a thriller
Yes, if you really want to see some exciting heavyweight fights, the Bowe/Holyfield trilogy is a good start.
You can/should also watch these, if you can find them:
Ike Ibeabuchi vs. David Tua ( high octane thru 12 rounds )
Oliver McCall vs. Bruce Seldon ( brutal brawl )
Riddick Bowe vs. Andrew Golota 1 & 2 ( intriguing and fowl filled )
Tommy Morrison vs. Razor Ruddock ( back n forth action )
Mike Tyson vs. Razor Ruddock 1 & 2 ( monster bombs )
Michael Moorer vs. Bert Cooper ( back n forth action )
Lennox Lewis vs. Evander Holyfield 1 & 2 ( great slugfests )
Ray Mercer vs. Tommy Morrison ( a most brutal knockout )
I have all of those except for McCall/seldon. Oddly, Ike/tua was underwhelming for me. A lot of that is probably due to not seeing it live. I assume you're being sarcastic with Lewis/holy. Stewart/sellers is insane.
Well, from what I can recall, I remember the Lewis/Holyfield fights were exciting. Perhaps my recollection is off, and they were mainly hug-fests? Ike/Tua fights was awesome, in my book. Big bombs, but miraculously neither of them hit the canvas. You just never see heavyweights throwing 100 punches per round anymore.
I actually was at the Alex Stewart/Ezra Sellers fight ringside at The Harrah's Casino, here in Kansas City. Yes, that was one incredible slugfest while it lasted!
Re: very exciting era at heavies
Posted: 12 Dec 2018, 18:34
by HeavyHitters
oogiebe wrote: ↑12 Dec 2018, 18:20
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑12 Dec 2018, 18:16
HeavyHitters wrote: ↑12 Dec 2018, 16:43
Yes, if you really want to see some exciting heavyweight fights, the Bowe/Holyfield trilogy is a good start.
You can/should also watch these, if you can find them:
Ike Ibeabuchi vs. David Tua ( high octane thru 12 rounds )
Oliver McCall vs. Bruce Seldon ( brutal brawl )
Riddick Bowe vs. Andrew Golota 1 & 2 ( intriguing and fowl filled )
Tommy Morrison vs. Razor Ruddock ( back n forth action )
Mike Tyson vs. Razor Ruddock 1 & 2 ( monster bombs )
Michael Moorer vs. Bert Cooper ( back n forth action )
Lennox Lewis vs. Evander Holyfield 1 & 2 ( great slugfests )
Ray Mercer vs. Tommy Morrison ( a most brutal knockout )
I have all of those except for McCall/seldon. Oddly, Ike/tua was underwhelming for me. A lot of that is probably due to not seeing it live. I assume you're being sarcastic with Lewis/holy. Stewart/sellers is insane.
Best "bombs away" HW fight of all time was Foreman/Lyle! I saw that live on TV and it was absolutely incredible.
Yes, Foreman/Lyle was totally awesome, but my list is more of the exciting fights of the 1990's and early 2000's. Foreman/Lyle was like 1976.
Re: very exciting era at heavies
Posted: 12 Dec 2018, 18:34
by HeavyHitters
HeavyHitters wrote: ↑12 Dec 2018, 18:34
oogiebe wrote: ↑12 Dec 2018, 18:20
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑12 Dec 2018, 18:16
I have all of those except for McCall/seldon. Oddly, Ike/tua was underwhelming for me. A lot of that is probably due to not seeing it live. I assume you're being sarcastic with Lewis/holy. Stewart/sellers is insane.
Best "bombs away" HW fight of all time was Foreman/Lyle! I saw that live on TV and it was absolutely incredible.
Yes, Foreman/Lyle was totally awesome, but my list is more of the exciting fights of the 1990's and early 2000's. Foreman/Lyle was like 1976.
Re: very exciting era at heavies
Posted: 12 Dec 2018, 19:47
by Onetimeonly
Your list is missing holy/dokes
Re: very exciting era at heavies
Posted: 13 Dec 2018, 03:59
by candyslim
oogiebe wrote: ↑12 Dec 2018, 18:20
Best "bombs away" HW fight of all time was Foreman/Lyle! I saw that live on TV and it was absolutely incredible.
What a fight that was!
Lyle v Shavers was none too shabby either.
Re: very exciting era at heavies
Posted: 13 Dec 2018, 11:10
by man
Re: very exciting era at heavies
Posted: 13 Dec 2018, 13:32
by oogiebe
man wrote: ↑13 Dec 2018, 11:10
seen it dozens of times.
It never gets old for me!
Re: very exciting era at heavies
Posted: 13 Dec 2018, 13:36
by Onetimeonly
It's just sad watching those fights and then a snoozer like wilder/fury lands atop foty lists.
Re: very exciting era at heavies
Posted: 13 Dec 2018, 13:58
by oogiebe
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑13 Dec 2018, 13:36
It's just sad watching those fights and then a snoozer like wilder/fury lands atop foty lists.
Yeah, I just absolutely do not see that as even a fight to watch a second time, much less FOTY.
Re: very exciting era at heavies
Posted: 14 Dec 2018, 11:56
by candyslim
It would be interesting to compare the top heavyweights of today with those of the golden era 1970s. I'm biased so I would say the only balancing factor is the size and weight handicap, without which it wouldn't be remotely close. I mean when you consider what a hulking great menacing brute Sonny Liston was regarded as, back in the sixties, today he'd be considered too small to be a serious title threat. Even Big George would be average-size George.
I consider myself extremely fortunate to have lived through a time where there was a depth of heavyweight talent who expected to, and did, all fight each other as a matter of course. I took Jeff Merrit's nickname for my box-rec handle but my very favourite fighter in those days was the late great Jerry Quarry, it wasn't a race thing, it was an underdog thing. Jerry was a mortal in the land of the gods. He couldn't match Frazier or Foreman for power, He couldn't match Ali for speed and he couldn't match Ali for size never mind Foreman. Imagine trying to cope with an Ali who was not only much bigger and longer than you, but also way faster of hand, foot and reflexes.
Jerry was a good boxer though, he had skills, good power, stamina, durability and guts by the bucket load. He was good enough to beat a fair few fighters who had eyes on the title, notably Lyle, Shavers, Foster drew with Ellis and beat Patterson if memory serves. He was badly beaten by Norton and suffered an upset ko loss to the tough and dangerous Chuvalo besides coming up short against Ali and Frazier.
I appreciate skill in boxing in much as the next man, but the quality I most admire is courage, both showing heart in the ring in times of adversity, and equally having the character to take on the most intimidating opponents.
Jerry you were a fighting man second to none and I salute your memory.,
Re: very exciting era at heavies
Posted: 14 Dec 2018, 11:59
by oogiebe
candyslim wrote: ↑14 Dec 2018, 11:56
It would be interesting to compare the top heavyweights of today with those of the golden era 1970s. I'm biased so I would say the only balancing factor is the size and weight handicap, without which it wouldn't be remotely close. I mean when you consider what a hulking great menacing brute Sonny Liston was regarded as, back in the sixties, today he'd be considered too small to be a serious title threat. Even Big George would be average-size George.
I consider myself extremely fortunate to have lived through a time where there was a depth of heavyweight talent who expected to, and did, all fight each other as a matter of course. I took Jeff Merrit's nickname for my box-rec handle but my very favourite fighter in those days was the late great Jerry Quarry, it wasn't a race thing, it was an underdog thing. Jerry was a mortal in the land of the gods. He couldn't match Frazier or Foreman for power, He couldn't match Ali for speed and he couldn't match Ali for size never mind Foreman. Imagine trying to cope with an Ali who was not only much bigger and longer than you, but also way faster of hand, foot and reflexes.
Jerry was a good boxer though, he had skills, good power, stamina, durability and guts by the bucket load. He was good enough to beat a fair few fighters who had eyes on the title, notably Lyle, Shavers, Foster drew with Ellis and beat Patterson if memory serves. He was badly beaten by Norton and suffered an upset ko loss to the tough and dangerous Chuvalo besides coming up short against Ali and Frazier.
I appreciate skill in boxing in much as the next man, but the quality I most admire is courage, both showing heart in the ring in times of adversity, and equally having the character to take on the most intimidating opponents.
Jerry you were a fighting man second to none and I salute your memory.,
Loved Quarry! Came up short on most big fights, but perhaps the biggest heart during that era. The man never stopped fighting.
Re: very exciting era at heavies
Posted: 14 Dec 2018, 12:09
by candyslim
Yes he deserved a long and healthy old age. Sadly that wasn't to be.