BoxRec

Fury won it. He boxed his own game and took Wilder's away from him. If a rematch happens it will be wider for Fury.

MF DOOM wrote: ↑05 Dec 2018, 11:42 Fury won it. He boxed his own game and took Wilder's away from him. If a rematch happens it will be wider for Fury.

It takes more than just defense to win a fight. You gotta hit a guy effectively too. Landing more than 13 punches is definitely gonna be important if you only hit half as hard.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑05 Dec 2018, 11:19

MarkMcBurney wrote: ↑05 Dec 2018, 05:07

gilgamesh wrote: ↑04 Dec 2018, 19:18

If you landed only 13 more punches, and got knocked down twice. You didn't win the fight.

You did if those 13 punches were spread out over the entire 12 rounds and your opponent won no more than 3 or 4 rounds, with the knockdowns.

Not when the other guys punches are harder, and more damaging, and yours are taps by comparison.

Who landed more 'power punches' then? Ah, I see why you didn't mention that.

If Arsenal score three tap-ins tonight, and United score two worldies, will they win the match? You're talking nonsense my friend, and are only seeing what you want to see. While I don't think Compubox is necessarily entirely accurate, the stats for this fight clearly show Fury winning it.

MarkMcBurney wrote: ↑05 Dec 2018, 12:16

gilgamesh wrote: ↑05 Dec 2018, 11:19

MarkMcBurney wrote: ↑05 Dec 2018, 05:07

You did if those 13 punches were spread out over the entire 12 rounds and your opponent won no more than 3 or 4 rounds, with the knockdowns.

Not when the other guys punches are harder, and more damaging, and yours are taps by comparison.

Who landed more 'power punches' then? Ah, I see why you didn't mention that.

Who's power punches got 2 knockdowns, and who's never appeared to hurt the other guy in any particularly noteworthy way?

gilgamesh wrote: ↑05 Dec 2018, 12:18

MarkMcBurney wrote: ↑05 Dec 2018, 12:16

gilgamesh wrote: ↑05 Dec 2018, 11:19

Not when the other guys punches are harder, and more damaging, and yours are taps by comparison.

Who landed more 'power punches' then? Ah, I see why you didn't mention that.

Who's power punches got 2 knockdowns, and who's never appeared to hurt the other guy in any particularly noteworthy way?

You're talking nonsense my friend. Landed punches count far more than fewer 'heavier' shots. The stats, while not entirely accurate all the time, clearly show a story of this fight that you don't want to see.

MarkMcBurney wrote: ↑05 Dec 2018, 12:20

gilgamesh wrote: ↑05 Dec 2018, 12:18

MarkMcBurney wrote: ↑05 Dec 2018, 12:16
Who landed more 'power punches' then? Ah, I see why you didn't mention that.

Who's power punches got 2 knockdowns, and who's never appeared to hurt the other guy in any particularly noteworthy way?

You're talking nonsense my friend. Landed punches count far more than fewer 'heavier' shots. The stats, while not entirely accurate all the time, clearly show a story of this fight that you don't want to see.

I watched the fight. I'm gonna watch it again. I realize Tyson Fury is a Boxing God in the eyes of some, and simply moving around the ring somehow wins him rounds, but that ain't how Boxing is supposed to be scored, and that ain't how I score it.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑05 Dec 2018, 11:45

MF DOOM wrote: ↑05 Dec 2018, 11:42 Fury won it. He boxed his own game and took Wilder's away from him. If a rematch happens it will be wider for Fury.

It takes more than just defense to win a fight. You gotta hit a guy effectively too. Landing more than 13 punches is definitely gonna be important if you only hit half as hard.

It is not as simple as that. He made Wilder commit less, hence the lower output, and controlled the early action, or lack thereof, before making a few mistakes. Wilder was soundly out-boxed. In many respects it was similar to the analysis of Hearn-Roldan when most agreed that as long as he was on his feet Hearn was in control of the contest. Fury should have earned the decision, predicting that he would not only see the final bell but would out-box Wilder was the easiest prediction anyone could make this year.

In fact, Wilder’s stats were down from the Ortiz fight so you know what that proves? Nothing, because stats are only a tool for analysis and a flawed one at that. Fury won it and it they have a rematch you’d have to heavily favour him. Like Mayweather did, he makes opponents commit less so it is more than arguable that he is very effective, more so than Wilder in this instance.

Round for round, Fury was a deserving winner and there is no way he lost all the first fives rounds. The fight was clearly misread by one official so they should go to the WBC and ask them to apply WBC Reg 3.11 sections a) b) and c) as well as providing the ample evidence that there is a clear precedent for it to staged.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑05 Dec 2018, 12:22

MarkMcBurney wrote: ↑05 Dec 2018, 12:20

gilgamesh wrote: ↑05 Dec 2018, 12:18

Who's power punches got 2 knockdowns, and who's never appeared to hurt the other guy in any particularly noteworthy way?

You're talking nonsense my friend. Landed punches count far more than fewer 'heavier' shots. The stats, while not entirely accurate all the time, clearly show a story of this fight that you don't want to see.

I watched the fight. I'm gonna watch it again. I realize Tyson Fury is a Boxing God in the eyes of some, and simply moving around the ring somehow wins him rounds, but that ain't how Boxing is supposed to be scored, and that ain't how I score it.

Good lateral movement to avoid being hit is actually part of the scoring criteria as long as it doesn't veer into outright running, and it did not in this instance.

I'm gonna watch the fight back, and will rescore it as I do so. That may convince me that I saw something different. Nobody's words are gonna.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑05 Dec 2018, 12:22

MarkMcBurney wrote: ↑05 Dec 2018, 12:20

gilgamesh wrote: ↑05 Dec 2018, 12:18

Who's power punches got 2 knockdowns, and who's never appeared to hurt the other guy in any particularly noteworthy way?

You're talking nonsense my friend. Landed punches count far more than fewer 'heavier' shots. The stats, while not entirely accurate all the time, clearly show a story of this fight that you don't want to see.

I watched the fight. I'm gonna watch it again. I realize Tyson Fury is a Boxing God in the eyes of some, and simply moving around the ring somehow wins him rounds, but that ain't how Boxing is supposed to be scored, and that ain't how I score it.

Now you're being silly. Boxing God, Fury is not. Very skilled heavyweight, he is. What Saturday showed was that Wilder is not a very good boxer but as we knew beforehand, carries serious power in his punches. If you think you can land more punches in 9 rounds of a 12 round fight and not win the fight then let's just say I strongly disagree with how you would score a fight. Out of interest did you score Mayweather v Canelo? Genuine question.

MF DOOM wrote: ↑05 Dec 2018, 12:27

gilgamesh wrote: ↑05 Dec 2018, 12:22

MarkMcBurney wrote: ↑05 Dec 2018, 12:20
You're talking nonsense my friend. Landed punches count far more than fewer 'heavier' shots. The stats, while not entirely accurate all the time, clearly show a story of this fight that you don't want to see.

I watched the fight. I'm gonna watch it again. I realize Tyson Fury is a Boxing God in the eyes of some, and simply moving around the ring somehow wins him rounds, but that ain't how Boxing is supposed to be scored, and that ain't how I score it.

Good lateral movement to avoid being hit is actually part of the scoring criteria as long as it doesn't veer into outright running, and it did not in this instance.

Yes, defense is part of the scoring criteria, but it's one of least important factors. Clean, effective punching is where the majority of the emphasis is put.

If it was a defensive masterclass he would've outlanded him by more than 13 blows.

MarkMcBurney wrote: ↑05 Dec 2018, 12:29

gilgamesh wrote: ↑05 Dec 2018, 12:22

MarkMcBurney wrote: ↑05 Dec 2018, 12:20
You're talking nonsense my friend. Landed punches count far more than fewer 'heavier' shots. The stats, while not entirely accurate all the time, clearly show a story of this fight that you don't want to see.

I watched the fight. I'm gonna watch it again. I realize Tyson Fury is a Boxing God in the eyes of some, and simply moving around the ring somehow wins him rounds, but that ain't how Boxing is supposed to be scored, and that ain't how I score it.

Now you're being silly. Boxing God, Fury is not. Very skilled heavyweight, he is. What Saturday showed was that Wilder is not a very good boxer but as we knew beforehand, carries serious power in his punches. If you think you can land more punches in 9 rounds of a 12 round fight and not win the fight then let's just say I strongly disagree with how you would score a fight. Out of interest did you score Mayweather v Canelo? Genuine question.

120-108 Mayweather

Nothing comparable between the two fights really.

Mayweather outlanded Canelo by over 100 punches. THAT'S domination.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑05 Dec 2018, 12:30

MF DOOM wrote: ↑05 Dec 2018, 12:27

gilgamesh wrote: ↑05 Dec 2018, 12:22

I watched the fight. I'm gonna watch it again. I realize Tyson Fury is a Boxing God in the eyes of some, and simply moving around the ring somehow wins him rounds, but that ain't how Boxing is supposed to be scored, and that ain't how I score it.

Good lateral movement to avoid being hit is actually part of the scoring criteria as long as it doesn't veer into outright running, and it did not in this instance.

Yes, defense is part of the scoring criteria, but it's one of least important factors. Clean, effective punching is where the majority of the emphasis is put.

If it was a defensive masterclass he would've outlanded him by more than 13 blows.

Not necessarily, in fact I'd say it is the opposite. A defensive performance that sees the person doing the defending score more shots actually speaks to the point that the defensive fighter's game played out more effectively so they deserved the win.

Ok. I don't agree. Because if his defense was the determining factor he wouldn't have tasted the canvas twice.

You can keep on all day, but you ain't gonna change my mind. I'm gonna watch the fight again in a few days, and give detailed notes on it.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑05 Dec 2018, 12:37 Ok. I don't agree. Because if his defense was the determining factor he wouldn't have tasted the canvas twice.

You can keep on all day, but you ain't gonna change my mind. I'm gonna watch the fight again in a few days, and give detailed notes on it.

So why keep arguing with people if you're not prepared to have your mind changed?

Covfefe wrote: ↑08 Dec 2018, 12:21

gilgamesh wrote: ↑05 Dec 2018, 12:37 Ok. I don't agree. Because if his defense was the determining factor he wouldn't have tasted the canvas twice.

You can keep on all day, but you ain't gonna change my mind. I'm gonna watch the fight again in a few days, and give detailed notes on it.

So why keep arguing with people if you're not prepared to have your mind changed?

I'll be watching the fight back later. That could POSSIBLY change my mind. Not likely, but stranger things have happened.

MarkMcBurney wrote: ↑03 Dec 2018, 09:59 Grim reading for Wilder for sure. Three rounds he outlanded Tyson for punches landed and only two rounds he landed more power punches. Nobody can use those stats to discredit a Fury win IMO.

Nobody should use those stats for anything. 4-2, 5-3, that's definitive? Cmon.

Fury won the fight.

There will always be a contingent of (mainly American) fight fans who will say otherwise.

Don't waste your breath.

This boxing adage of having to rip a title from a champion is the biggest load of bollox that exists. No other sport works that way. Did Usain Bolt start off at the ten metre line? Do Man City start games already credited with one goal?

You start off level, fight a set number of rounds which are judged independently to each other. You only need to do an inch more than the other guy to win a round. Then we move on to the next. Add them up and the winner is the guy with more points to his name.