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Re: who should usyk start his hw campaign against?
Posted: 03 Dec 2018, 19:09
by oogiebe
RKY wrote: ↑03 Dec 2018, 19:07
oogiebe wrote: ↑03 Dec 2018, 18:30
RKY wrote: ↑03 Dec 2018, 18:25
?
I assume you were referring to Usyk. 1: He's not just going to be able to beat AJ without at least a couple of fights at HW to test the waters, and 2: He is just entering his prime at 31 y.o. Not old for the higher weight classes. If you were referring to another fighter, then I'll reconsider.
Usyk would box Joshua's ears off tomorrow. Levels.
I usually agree with you RKY, but I won't get into a debate on that one. He had trouble with Briedis FFS.
Re: who should usyk start his hw campaign against?
Posted: 03 Dec 2018, 19:16
by Ricky
oogiebe wrote: ↑03 Dec 2018, 19:09
RKY wrote: ↑03 Dec 2018, 19:07
oogiebe wrote: ↑03 Dec 2018, 18:30
I assume you were referring to Usyk. 1: He's not just going to be able to beat AJ without at least a couple of fights at HW to test the waters, and 2: He is just entering his prime at 31 y.o. Not old for the higher weight classes. If you were referring to another fighter, then I'll reconsider.
Usyk would box Joshua's ears off tomorrow. Levels.
I usually agree with you RKY, but I won't get into a debate on that one. He had trouble with Briedis FFS.
Is that the biggest critique you have of Usyk - he win a close world title fight? He's the most skilled fighter weighing 200lb+ by a mile.
Re: who should usyk start his hw campaign against?
Posted: 03 Dec 2018, 19:19
by oogiebe
RKY wrote: ↑03 Dec 2018, 19:16
oogiebe wrote: ↑03 Dec 2018, 19:09
RKY wrote: ↑03 Dec 2018, 19:07
Usyk would box Joshua's ears off tomorrow. Levels.
I usually agree with you RKY, but I won't get into a debate on that one. He had trouble with Briedis FFS.
Is that the biggest critique you have of Usyk - he win a close world title fight? He's the most skilled fighter weighing 200lb+ by a mile.
He hasn't fought a 250 pound 6'6" bruiser.
Re: who should usyk start his hw campaign against?
Posted: 03 Dec 2018, 19:23
by gilgamesh
Yeah. The strength and power gap can definitely make up for the skill gap. Especially when the strength and power gap is THAT big.
Re: who should usyk start his hw campaign against?
Posted: 03 Dec 2018, 19:23
by Ricky
oogiebe wrote: ↑03 Dec 2018, 19:19
RKY wrote: ↑03 Dec 2018, 19:16
oogiebe wrote: ↑03 Dec 2018, 19:09
I usually agree with you RKY, but I won't get into a debate on that one. He had trouble with Briedis FFS.
Is that the biggest critique you have of Usyk - he win a close world title fight? He's the most skilled fighter weighing 200lb+ by a mile.
He hasn't fought a 250 pound 6'6" bruiser.
Indeed, i suspect the step up 2.5 inches in height, 30lb extra and greater punch power will certainly pose Usyk a few problems, but remember he competed against the big boys in the ams. P4p i have Usyk top 3 easy, infact there's an argument for him being #1. No other heavyweight for me gets near the top 10.
Re: who should usyk start his hw campaign against?
Posted: 03 Dec 2018, 19:25
by Ricky
gilgamesh wrote: ↑03 Dec 2018, 19:23
Yeah. The strength and power gap can definitely make up for the skill gap. Especially when the strength and power gap is THAT big.
It's not as big as you think. Usyk has plenty sparring with Wlad too, who probably edges AJ for size and power.
Re: who should usyk start his hw campaign against?
Posted: 03 Dec 2018, 19:29
by gilgamesh
RKY wrote: ↑03 Dec 2018, 19:25
gilgamesh wrote: ↑03 Dec 2018, 19:23
Yeah. The strength and power gap can definitely make up for the skill gap. Especially when the strength and power gap is THAT big.
It's not as big as you think. Usyk has plenty sparring with Wlad too, who probably edges AJ for size and power.
I didn't say it's insurmountable for him, but it will undoubtedly be an issue for him somewhere over the course of 12 rounds. Usyk isn't an especially big hitter either so at some point AJ or Wilder or whoever he faces could just say f*ck it and attack him with abandon because they'd have no real reason to fear getting knocked out by him.
Not to say he CAN'T knock 'em out, but it'd be fairly unlikely I think. Particularly late in the bout when they've leaned on him in clinches, and taken the wind out of his sails a little.
Re: who should usyk start his hw campaign against?
Posted: 03 Dec 2018, 19:39
by Verdi
I think he'll go chisora, povetkin then a title shot.
Re: who should usyk start his hw campaign against?
Posted: 03 Dec 2018, 19:40
by TheGingerBomber
All depends what he fancies, I think the ideal fight to set up the AJ bout next year would be Parker because he’s a decent size, doesn’t pose a great power threat, is easy to hit, and couldn’t handle Usyk technically. The way I’ve explained it, doesn’t give it much intrigue, but Parker hasn’t lit up the world, that’s a fact.
If he wanted two fights, I think ideally I’d go with Charr then Whyte.
Re: who should usyk start his hw campaign against?
Posted: 03 Dec 2018, 19:43
by Ricky
gilgamesh wrote: ↑03 Dec 2018, 19:29
RKY wrote: ↑03 Dec 2018, 19:25
gilgamesh wrote: ↑03 Dec 2018, 19:23
Yeah. The strength and power gap can definitely make up for the skill gap. Especially when the strength and power gap is THAT big.
It's not as big as you think. Usyk has plenty sparring with Wlad too, who probably edges AJ for size and power.
I didn't say it's insurmountable for him, but it will undoubtedly be an issue for him somewhere over the course of 12 rounds. Usyk isn't an especially big hitter either so at some point AJ or Wilder or whoever he faces could just say f*ck it and attack him with abandon because they'd have no real reason to fear getting knocked out by him.
Not to say he CAN'T knock 'em out, but it'd be fairly unlikely I think. Particularly late in the bout when they've leaned on him in clinches, and taken the wind out of his sails a little.
I see it a little differently. Usyk is so brilliant on his feet he can keep clinches to a minimum - with the amount of lean muscle AJ is packing i suspect its a matter of time until someone drags him late and fills those arms with lactic acid. Usyk could certainly take him in to deep waters.
Re: who should usyk start his hw campaign against?
Posted: 03 Dec 2018, 20:10
by OH_RickNMorty
For Early-2019, I’d give Oleksandr Usyk a fight with Joseph Parker. Hopefully the two would meet around the 215—225 LBS, to help Usyk ease his way into the Division without gaining to much weight. I think Usyk would win by KO between R6—R10.
For Late-2019, I’d give Usyk either Kubrat Pulev or Luis Ortiz. This way, Usyk would be able to understand the raw power of the Heavyweight’s, readying him up for the ‘big dog’s’.
I’d have JOSHUA V USYK set for Summer Time 2020, honestly. Would be a great fight.
Re: who should usyk start his hw campaign against?
Posted: 04 Dec 2018, 00:27
by Lackeos
RKY wrote: ↑03 Dec 2018, 19:16
oogiebe wrote: ↑03 Dec 2018, 19:09
RKY wrote: ↑03 Dec 2018, 19:07
Usyk would box Joshua's ears off tomorrow. Levels.
I usually agree with you RKY, but I won't get into a debate on that one. He had trouble with Briedis FFS.
Is that the biggest critique you have of Usyk - he win a close world title fight? He's the most skilled fighter weighing 200lb+ by a mile.
Not by a mile. He's better than Briedis by a little bit.
Re: who should usyk start his hw campaign against?
Posted: 04 Dec 2018, 00:36
by jamamb
lol ya and only a bit better then noel gevor
Re: who should usyk start his hw campaign against?
Posted: 04 Dec 2018, 00:41
by gilgamesh
Lackeos wrote: ↑04 Dec 2018, 00:27
RKY wrote: ↑03 Dec 2018, 19:16
oogiebe wrote: ↑03 Dec 2018, 19:09
I usually agree with you RKY, but I won't get into a debate on that one. He had trouble with Briedis FFS.
Is that the biggest critique you have of Usyk - he win a close world title fight? He's the most skilled fighter weighing 200lb+ by a mile.
Not by a mile. He's better than Briedis by a little bit.
In all fairness Breidis is pretty damn solid in his own right.
Re: who should usyk start his hw campaign against?
Posted: 04 Dec 2018, 00:44
by jamamb
i thought he beat breidis handily , hes easily the best cruiser
lacky, what if gliwacki beats briedis? How does it werk then since usyk 10-2 glow
Re: who should usyk start his hw campaign against?
Posted: 04 Dec 2018, 00:55
by gregregegg
i like an andy ruiz/Bryant Jennings/Adam Kownacki level start >>> miller or ortiz or wilder >>> AJ (or whoever has the belts by then).
That would be the perfect projection for me. i really want to see him vs miller, cause miller is lippy as fornicate and it would be nice to see him get spanked by a guy 100 pounds lighter than him.
Re: who should usyk start his hw campaign against?
Posted: 04 Dec 2018, 01:13
by actjac
Trevor Bryan, . . . Don King's undefeated #1 ranked WBA heavyweight contender.
Re: who should usyk start his hw campaign against?
Posted: 04 Dec 2018, 03:51
by ewenhay
RKY wrote: ↑03 Dec 2018, 19:08
ewenhay wrote: ↑03 Dec 2018, 18:23
I wouldn't be against a Ukraine v Russia showdown though as a first fight. Could be spicy.
He just smoked gassiev in russia.
Aye. I was meaning Povetkin
Re: who should usyk start his hw campaign against?
Posted: 04 Dec 2018, 12:35
by DrDuke
First it should be some near-top guy, then a top competitor, after there should be a title shot. Among the fighters for the first step I'd name Helenius, Szpilka, Martin, etc. Among the guys for the second step I'd list Whyte or Miller, or Kownacki, or Parker. And the shot will most likely be against Joshua.
Re: who should usyk start his hw campaign against?
Posted: 04 Dec 2018, 15:29
by KiwiRider
A year ago I would have said Takem, always been a good measuring stick. Now I think he is about done.
Brazeale won't take any fight that risks his fake #1 contender status.
Joyce won't want to be schooled a second time.
Ruiez Jr or Parker might take the fight. Parker may just keep earning against tomato cans on home turf though.
Chisora will want too much money and will look terrible whilst shipping a lot of punishment.
Kownacki might take it.
Miller wouldn't risk it, he is holding out for AJ and his first loss.
Re: who should usyk start his hw campaign against?
Posted: 04 Dec 2018, 15:37
by DrDuke
KiwiRider wrote: ↑04 Dec 2018, 15:29
A year ago I would have said Takem, always been a good measuring stick. Now I think he is about done.
Brazeale won't take any fight that risks his fake #1 contender status.
Joyce won't want to be schooled a second time.
Ruiez Jr or Parker might take the fight. Parker may just keep earning against tomato cans on home turf though.
Chisora will want too much money and will look terrible whilst shipping a lot of punishment.
Kownacki might take it.
Miller wouldn't risk it, he is holding out for AJ and his first loss.
Good points.
I also think, that Helenius and Szpilka can take the fight. They both are out of title competition, but have recent good wins, that allows them to fight bigger fights, not just tomato cans. They have nothing to lose and should grab other opportunities.
Whyte, I guess, will take that too. He will have no other choice, if Eddie tells him though.
Re: who should usyk start his hw campaign against?
Posted: 04 Dec 2018, 15:40
by ajwesty13
gilgamesh wrote: ↑03 Dec 2018, 17:19
Either a guy like Dominic Breazeale or maybe Dereck Chisora. Or possibly Gerald Washington.
I'd want to start him with a guy that's particularly big, but not overly dangerous just to get him used to the size disadvantage he'll be having to deal with on a regular basis.
He's such a talent though I wouldn't waste much of his time. Washington or Breazeale to start things, and then straight on to Wilder. Obviously Wilder stands a strong chance of knocking him out, but I think Usyk would outbox him thoroughly so long as he doesn't get caught. You'd see an actual Boxing lesson given to Wilder, not a showboating lesson.
Yeah that was my thinking Del.boy would be a good fight just a little risk (ask takam) but a good warm up for your first hw fight
Re: who should usyk start his hw campaign against?
Posted: 04 Dec 2018, 15:54
by KiwiRider
DrDuke wrote: ↑04 Dec 2018, 15:37
KiwiRider wrote: ↑04 Dec 2018, 15:29
A year ago I would have said Takem, always been a good measuring stick. Now I think he is about done.
Brazeale won't take any fight that risks his fake #1 contender status.
Joyce won't want to be schooled a second time.
Ruiez Jr or Parker might take the fight. Parker may just keep earning against tomato cans on home turf though.
Chisora will want too much money and will look terrible whilst shipping a lot of punishment.
Kownacki might take it.
Miller wouldn't risk it, he is holding out for AJ and his first loss.
Good points.
I also think, that Helenius and Szpilka can take the fight. They both are out of title competition, but have recent good wins, that allows them to fight bigger fights, not just tomato cans. They have nothing to lose and should grab other opportunities.
Whyte, I guess, will take that too. He will have no other choice, if Eddie tells him though.
Thanks Doc.
I wanted to get a realistic view on who would take the fight in this age of ducking and jostling for title position. It's all very well who we would like to see, the reality is who would actually take the fight and not want to much money- like Chisora who would want a decent payday even if he loses to Whyte
Re: who should usyk start his hw campaign against?
Posted: 04 Dec 2018, 15:58
by jamamb
ya i agree on someone like helenius for the first fight, a lower top 20 genuine 6'6 hw who you wont find that size of at cruiser, and coming off a decent win, but someone usyk should defo beat
usyks team i think says they want 2 fights at least before facing a big name for a title.
maybe someone like helenius, then a parker or whyte or something, then aj. though do we really know usyks so good that hed defo get through a guy like whyte?
Re: who should usyk start his hw campaign against?
Posted: 04 Dec 2018, 16:08
by ValMar
I would like to see Usyk against H. Fury (I think HF would be willing to face him, considering decent pay-day, of course).