BoxRec

gilgamesh wrote: ↑05 Dec 2018, 20:31 Don't really care. Don't get why anybody does to be honest. If the fighters find their pay agreeable, and step into the ring that should be good enough for us. We ain't spending any of it.

If you don't care, then why comment? This is a boxing forum, we discuss boxing related matters.


Who made you a MOD? All I see is negative crap, or sarcastic comments from you. You do not deserve the title, and I'm not alone in my thoughts I bet.

gilgamesh = ultimate troll

SAPFO wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 12:06

gilgamesh wrote: ↑05 Dec 2018, 20:31 Don't really care. Don't get why anybody does to be honest. If the fighters find their pay agreeable, and step into the ring that should be good enough for us. We ain't spending any of it.

If you don't care, then why comment? This is a boxing forum, we discuss boxing related matters.


Who made you a MOD? All I see is negative crap, or sarcastic comments from you. You do not deserve the title, and I'm not alone in my thoughts I bet.

gilgamesh = ultimate troll

Gil can be moody, but he is a fair mod and he knows boxing.

If you equate gil to being the “ultimate troll,” you have not met chuckie or Homi or adislob, or Atrollo or any number of posters on Boxrec Forum.

It's just refreshing to see someone fight for pride or the love of the business rather than be all about the money, fame, accolades, etc.

Fury's comeback is motivated by proving to himself that he is the best in the entire world. Him coming back from 400 pounds and essentially an alcoholic and coke addict, to the most beloved or inspirational boxer in the world right now is absolutely phenomenal.

Wilder, Joshua, etc all seem to be motivated by strictly money. They're puppets of their promoters, etc. Fury seems to be a one man army in the sense that he controls his own destiny. He can tell Warren tomorrow, "I want Joshua make it happen," and that's how it'd be. He can up and retire, he can fight Ortiz or Whyte, etc. It's in his court. The others bend to the whims and wishes of organizations.

Wilder needs Fury and Joshua. Fury doesn't need Wilder, and really neither does Joshua. People can disagree all they want, but I think it's pretty clear that Wilder's stock has taken a big hit, especially with his excuses. Fury and Joshua both can freeze him out if they wanted to.

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 14:06 It's just refreshing to see someone fight for pride or the love of the business rather than be all about the money, fame, accolades, etc.

Fury's comeback is motivated by proving to himself that he is the best in the entire world. Him coming back from 400 pounds and essentially an alcoholic and coke addict, to the most beloved or inspirational boxer in the world right now is absolutely phenomenal.

Wilder, Joshua, etc all seem to be motivated by strictly money. They're puppets of their promoters, etc. Fury seems to be a one man army in the sense that he controls his own destiny. He can tell Warren tomorrow, "I want Joshua make it happen," and that's how it'd be. He can up and retire, he can fight Ortiz or Whyte, etc. It's in his court. The others bend to the whims and wishes of organizations.

Wilder needs Fury and Joshua. Fury doesn't need Wilder, and really neither does Joshua. People can disagree all they want, but I think it's pretty clear that Wilder's stock has taken a big hit, especially with his excuses. Fury and Joshua both can freeze him out if they wanted to.

You might be ever so slightly biased though Henry

For how amazing and great Fury is, and how shite Wilder is, he has a draw on his record against him and near enough got stopped by him.

Joshua has 3.5 of the big belts and Fury has none and is coming of a draw with someone that most say cannot actually box and was almost/was stopped.
70/30 looks fair to me.
I’m surprised that there’s not a 40-40 winner gets the remaining 20 type arrangement more often.

lillywhite14 wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 14:12

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 14:06 It's just refreshing to see someone fight for pride or the love of the business rather than be all about the money, fame, accolades, etc.

Fury's comeback is motivated by proving to himself that he is the best in the entire world. Him coming back from 400 pounds and essentially an alcoholic and coke addict, to the most beloved or inspirational boxer in the world right now is absolutely phenomenal.

Wilder, Joshua, etc all seem to be motivated by strictly money. They're puppets of their promoters, etc. Fury seems to be a one man army in the sense that he controls his own destiny. He can tell Warren tomorrow, "I want Joshua make it happen," and that's how it'd be. He can up and retire, he can fight Ortiz or Whyte, etc. It's in his court. The others bend to the whims and wishes of organizations.

Wilder needs Fury and Joshua. Fury doesn't need Wilder, and really neither does Joshua. People can disagree all they want, but I think it's pretty clear that Wilder's stock has taken a big hit, especially with his excuses. Fury and Joshua both can freeze him out if they wanted to.

You might be ever so slightly biased though Henry

For how amazing and great Fury is, and how shite Wilder is, he has a draw on his record against him and near enough got stopped by him.

Don’t do Homi like that.

SAPFO wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 12:06

gilgamesh wrote: ↑05 Dec 2018, 20:31 Don't really care. Don't get why anybody does to be honest. If the fighters find their pay agreeable, and step into the ring that should be good enough for us. We ain't spending any of it.

If you don't care, then why comment? This is a boxing forum, we discuss boxing related matters.


Who made you a MOD? All I see is negative crap, or sarcastic comments from you. You do not deserve the title, and I'm not alone in my thoughts I bet.

gilgamesh = ultimate troll

I wasn't being negative I just think fans tend to focus too often on purse splits, and who's getting paid what and all that. The fighters themselves are the guys that should be worried about their pay it should be inconsequential to us. That's all I'm saying.

You can think what you will of me as a mod. You can't please all the people, all the time.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 15:25

SAPFO wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 12:06

gilgamesh wrote: ↑05 Dec 2018, 20:31 Don't really care. Don't get why anybody does to be honest. If the fighters find their pay agreeable, and step into the ring that should be good enough for us. We ain't spending any of it.

If you don't care, then why comment? This is a boxing forum, we discuss boxing related matters.


Who made you a MOD? All I see is negative crap, or sarcastic comments from you. You do not deserve the title, and I'm not alone in my thoughts I bet.

gilgamesh = ultimate troll

I wasn't being negative I just think fans tend to focus too often on purse splits, and who's getting paid what and all that. The fighters themselves are the guys that should be worried about their pay it should be inconsequential to us. That's all I'm saying.

You can think what you will of me as a mod. You can't please all the people, all the time.

I never understood posters concerns over pay. It makes no difference to the fans. It's the fights.

oogiebe wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 15:29

gilgamesh wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 15:25

SAPFO wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 12:06

If you don't care, then why comment? This is a boxing forum, we discuss boxing related matters.


Who made you a MOD? All I see is negative crap, or sarcastic comments from you. You do not deserve the title, and I'm not alone in my thoughts I bet.

gilgamesh = ultimate troll

I wasn't being negative I just think fans tend to focus too often on purse splits, and who's getting paid what and all that. The fighters themselves are the guys that should be worried about their pay it should be inconsequential to us. That's all I'm saying.

You can think what you will of me as a mod. You can't please all the people, all the time.

I never understood posters concerns over pay. It makes no difference to the fans. It's the fights.

It's only really fights concerning Joshua and Alvarez where it comes up.

Unfortunately it comes up every time those two have fights in negotiation.

Some posters even get pretty annoyed if a fighter gets plus or minus five percent of what they think he should get!

It’s the figures that’s in the way a lot of the time, so it is relevant. Fury’s % will be based on what he brings to the table in popularity, and his stock is high right now, so if we can start the ball rolling to help claw some of the % from Eddie, then let’s feckin get it done!!

Considering Joshua wouldn't have the belts period if it wasn't for the ibf politics and Fury's own personal issues, and considering how Fury was robbed against Wilder--- the split ought to be 60/40 or 50/50 though I'm aware that'll never happen.

oogiebe wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 15:29

gilgamesh wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 15:25

SAPFO wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 12:06

If you don't care, then why comment? This is a boxing forum, we discuss boxing related matters.


Who made you a MOD? All I see is negative crap, or sarcastic comments from you. You do not deserve the title, and I'm not alone in my thoughts I bet.

gilgamesh = ultimate troll

I wasn't being negative I just think fans tend to focus too often on purse splits, and who's getting paid what and all that. The fighters themselves are the guys that should be worried about their pay it should be inconsequential to us. That's all I'm saying.

You can think what you will of me as a mod. You can't please all the people, all the time.

I never understood posters concerns over pay. It makes no difference to the fans. It's the fights.

it makes a huge difference when pay is such a big factor in whether the fights happen in the first place.

In reality though there is never a clear answer on which side of the deal breaks down. I'll take this fight as a case in point with figures used for example:

Joshua/Skywould make £10m regardless of who he fights next.

Fury/Warren would make £3m against anyone else.

They fight each other and make a pot of £30m.

You would ask AJ to agree to 50/50 And therefore a £5m bonus for fighting Fury, but Fury would be making £12m more for actually a bigger opportunity for him.

Speaking percentages, to make that a fair deal, AJ would want 60% to make his money in the region of £18m and an £8m bonus for taking the most difficult fight.
Fury taking 40% would get around £12m, again about £9m more than he could earn anywhere else.

In these circs would AJ be criticised for refusing to yield more than 40% of the pot? OK Joshua would take home £8m more than expected but Fury isnt going anywhere, and as soon as AJ loses his earning potential diminishes. He can go on earning very good money and cash in on the biggest fights when he's nowhere else to go.

Fury in refusing to accept 40% is actually turning down 3x more than he could earn in any other fight...

Who is being greedy?

If you were in AJ's position, would you honestly give up 50% of the pot just to prove you're the best on some old fashioned values, when clearly Fury's team aren't prepared to do the same?
Bear in mind any of the big hw names, right down to Dillian Whyte, make AJ very close to the Fury money, if not a lot more.

These split conversations are so boring in boxing.

People go mad for it on twitter too about who deserves what and why, I don’t get it?

I really don’t care who’s getting what, just sign the fights!

All title fights should have to be 40/40 and the winner gets the other 20.

Covfefe wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 20:42 These split conversations are so boring in boxing.

People go mad for it on twitter too about who deserves what and why, I don’t get it?

I really don’t care who’s getting what, just sign the fights!

Seriously, it's as though these folks actually believe they are negotiating. Or if this guy makes more he's the better fighter. Just get the fights going! It doesn't make any difference in my pockets.

Covfefe wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 20:44 All title fights should have to be 40/40 and the winner gets the other 20.

Extra 15 for win, 20 for KTFO.

ironbeard wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 20:50

Covfefe wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 20:44 All title fights should have to be 40/40 and the winner gets the other 20.

Extra 15 for win, 20 for KTFO.

What about the other 5 in the non KO scenario?

You see what I’m getting at though, stop all this drawn out negotiation bull shit. I’m sick of hearing the term 'a-side'!

Its so idealistic it's naive and nonsensical to think that this would ever and has ever happened.

If you were the main draw and could make money fighting anyone, you would not be giving up millions of pounds because someone else thinks they're as good as you and you want to prove them wrong, it's crazy talk.

Not one of you would go to work and earn the same as someone who wasn't as well qualified or experienced as you.

I wouldn't pay the same price to watch a local football team play as it costs for a Man United ticket.

Money makes the world go round and particularly when you're getting punched for it and at any time you might never be able to fight again.

"Let's forget the money and just have a dust up to find out who is best"....

sharpei_louis wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 21:11 Its so idealistic it's naive and nonsensical to think that this would ever and has ever happened.

If you were the main draw and could make money fighting anyone, you would not be giving up millions of pounds because someone else thinks they're as good as you and you want to prove them wrong, it's crazy talk.

Not one of you would go to work and earn the same as someone who wasn't as well qualified or experienced as you.

I wouldn't pay the same price to watch a local football team play as it costs for a Man United ticket.

Money makes the world go round and particularly when you're getting punched for it and at any time you might never be able to fight again.

"Let's forget the money and just have a dust up to find out who is best"....

Right, to an extent, but man united don’t play local sides, they play other top sides, just like top boxers fight other top boxers.

Though you are right, what I am saying will never ever happen.

I’m just sick of the nonsense, I don’t care who draws what or who has what, just fight!

It’s more pronounced now as people never used to argue about who deserved what cut, maybe I use twitter too much, I’m just sick of seeing the arguments, why does anyone care what cut AJ makes against someone, either way he’s raking it in!

Covfefe wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 21:16 Though you are right, what I am saying will never ever happen.

I’m just sick of the nonsense, I don’t care who draws what or who has what, just fight!

It’s more pronounced now as people never used to argue about who deserved what cut, maybe I use twitter too much, I’m just sick of seeing the arguments, why does anyone care what cut AJ makes against someone, either way he’s raking it in!

So very true!

When Man United get the gate receipts in, they dont give Man City a bigger cut for being a better team believe me.

I want the fight as much as anyone, but I can't understand how the Joshua team are demonised for refusing a 50/50 when the maths are simple and it genuinely is the other side being greedy by refusing to take less.

I don't doubt Joshua thinks he will ktfo Fury. He will know it's a risky fight though, and while he has the advantages why would he give them up?

sharpei_louis wrote: ↑06 Dec 2018, 21:24 When Man United get the gate receipts in, they dont give Man City a bigger cut for being a better team believe me.

I want the fight as much as anyone, but I can't understand how the Joshua team are demonised for refusing a 50/50 when the maths are simple and it genuinely is the other side being greedy by refusing to take less.

I don't doubt Joshua thinks he will ktfo Fury. He will know it's a risky fight though, and while he has the advantages why would he give them up?

Because at the end of the day he’s a rich man, and this is the fight people want. Why does an extra five million on his already large pay cheque really matter? These guys aren’t fighting for peanuts. It’s spoiling boxing to an extent as it gives fighters who draw reasons not to fight fighters who don’t.

For Wilder in the UK 60-40 would be fair ,, For Fury 65-35 based on the fact AJ has the belts , wilder has the one he wants , and Fury would be getting paid well , plus a chance at the belts , really Hearn would be a mug to give Fury even 60-40 , alls he brings to the table is a good chance of winning