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Re: The Last Word on Tyson Fury vs Deontay Wilder
Posted: 09 Dec 2018, 19:21
by guysecretan
However, you score a fight you have to accept that it is not necessarily scored completely scientifically. The fighter holding the belt is gonna have an advantage especially with two knockdowns and especially in America. To take someone's belt you have to do so convincingly and if you get knocked down twice then you are not convincing people.
Re: The Last Word on Tyson Fury vs Deontay Wilder
Posted: 09 Dec 2018, 19:30
by Duran1970
Well done Gil...I disagreed on 1 round...I hope that thorough breakdown puts to bed all this robbery talk....but it won't.
Re: The Last Word on Tyson Fury vs Deontay Wilder
Posted: 10 Dec 2018, 07:30
by Heretic
Nice job Gil.
Love the effort put to it and the fact that you managed to be objective even when you hate the other guy with passion
Re: The Last Word on Tyson Fury vs Deontay Wilder
Posted: 10 Dec 2018, 09:08
by NateJR
I haven't sat down and scored the fight round by round. But on my initial viewing of the fight I had it much the same with maybe a round or 2 different. The first few rounds were hard to score because there wasn't a whole lot happening to separate the 2. Mid fight Fury began to take over and clearly outbox Wilder. Then aside from the 9th and 12th Fury took every round in the second half of the fight. I could see either Fury winning by a round or 2 or a draw, but honestly at the end of the fight it was only natural to feel Fury pulled it off.
I'm ok with the draw and I hope for a immediate rematch. It wasn't the most exciting fight, but there was enough drama throughout the fight to keep it interesting.
Re: The Last Word on Tyson Fury vs Deontay Wilder
Posted: 10 Dec 2018, 09:11
by Onetimeonly
Heretic wrote: ↑10 Dec 2018, 07:30
Nice job Gil.
Love the effort put to it and the fact that you managed to be objective even when you hate the other guy with passion
He hates both of them.
Re: The Last Word on Tyson Fury vs Deontay Wilder
Posted: 10 Dec 2018, 10:28
by gilgamesh
DrDuke wrote: ↑09 Dec 2018, 15:35
Glad you struggled well with you fierce and wrathful super hate towards Fury to accept the reality of The Gypsy King winning Wilder.
No struggle. I just watched the fight.
Re: The Last Word on Tyson Fury vs Deontay Wilder
Posted: 10 Dec 2018, 10:30
by gilgamesh
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑10 Dec 2018, 09:11
Heretic wrote: ↑10 Dec 2018, 07:30
Nice job Gil.
Love the effort put to it and the fact that you managed to be objective even when you hate the other guy with passion
He hates both of them.
People always tend to forget this when you disagree with the masses on one occasion. I've been called a Mayweather fan several times too just because I defend him from ludicrous arguments against him, and his accomplishments in spite of the fact that I rooted for him to lose in basically every fight he ever had
Re: The Last Word on Tyson Fury vs Deontay Wilder
Posted: 11 Dec 2018, 04:53
by MarkMcBurney
You and I disagreed about who won the fight on Sunday but fair play Gilgamesh for changing your mind and producing a very in depth explanation as to your scoring. For the record I had Wilder winning 3 rounds however a few others were close so would completely agree with your card.
Re: The Last Word on Tyson Fury vs Deontay Wilder
Posted: 11 Dec 2018, 05:05
by Ricky
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑09 Dec 2018, 17:24
I'll never watch that fight again.
Yeah i haven't been able to mustur up the will to watch it again either. Fury stunk it up & i dont care enough about the moaning to go split some hairs in actionless rounds.
Re: The Last Word on Tyson Fury vs Deontay Wilder
Posted: 11 Dec 2018, 05:30
by BitPlayer
When even the resident Fury despiser is scoring it for Fury, you know he was robbed.
Seriously though, has Escudo posted his breakdown?
Re: The Last Word on Tyson Fury vs Deontay Wilder
Posted: 11 Dec 2018, 08:47
by ironbeard
BitPlayer wrote: ↑11 Dec 2018, 05:30
When even the resident Fury despiser is scoring it for Fury, you know he was robbed.
Seriously though, has Escudo posted his breakdown?
Take this . . .
. . . with you to the Butthurt Brigade corner. Looks like they need a refill. Just
when you need more. Even though it is not called “mansize” anymore, there is no shortage in the Amazon warehouse.
Re: The Last Word on Tyson Fury vs Deontay Wilder
Posted: 11 Dec 2018, 09:13
by Onetimeonly
RKY wrote: ↑11 Dec 2018, 05:05
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑09 Dec 2018, 17:24
I'll never watch that fight again.
Yeah i haven't been able to mustur up the will to watch it again either. Fury stunk it up & i dont care enough about the moaning to go split some hairs in actionless rounds.
a couple dramatic moments in a terrible fight. Sad what poses for "great" these days.
Re: The Last Word on Tyson Fury vs Deontay Wilder
Posted: 11 Dec 2018, 12:06
by squiggy
guysecretan wrote: ↑09 Dec 2018, 19:21
especially with two knockdowns
I honestly don't know what people are thinking when they talk this way. A knockdown affects the one round it occurs in. It is not a reason to reassess other rounds.
Re: The Last Word on Tyson Fury vs Deontay Wilder
Posted: 11 Dec 2018, 12:37
by oogiebe
This Wilder fan finally watched the fight. First off, it wasn't a great fight by any means, but had some decent moments. I scored it 115-111 Fury. There were some early rounds that could have gone Wilder, but there was just not enough action to justify.
Re: The Last Word on Tyson Fury vs Deontay Wilder
Posted: 11 Dec 2018, 13:42
by Deleted_Scenes
A very fair assessment of the fight.
For me, round 2, 3, and 4, were the most difficult to score. Judging from your breakdown, it seems that fits your own view.
A few other rounds were also close, but I didn't feel they were close enough that there wasn't a 'correct' winner.
Fury: 1, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11
Close: 2, 3, 4
Wilder: 9, 12 (both 10-8)
I've seen arguments that Fury 'winning' the majority of the action in the 9th and 12th, aside from the knockdowns, means either or both of those rounds could be scored 10-9. I disagree. For that to happen, the downed fighter needs to dominate the remainder of the action, not just edge it, and ideally hurt the fighter who scored the knockdown in the process. Fury didn't do that for me.
I also believe there's an argument the 9th round knockdown technically came from an illegal blow (to the back of Fury's head). True or not, I'm not convinced it was a deliberate illegal blow, more as a result of Fury's movement putting the back of his own head in the line of fire (many other fighters have scored legitimate knockdowns in this fashion - notably GGG, who I generally root for - so I would be biased to penalise Wilder in this way). Either way, Reiss ruled a knockdown, and judges are not permitted to overrule that decision on their cards. This is also not a valid reason to score the 9th 10-9 Wilder - indeed, if it WAS permitted to overrule the referee, that would make the round 10-9 Fury, as he edged the rest of the action.
In short, giving every benefit to Wilder returns a score of 113-113.
Giving every benefit to Fury returns a score of 116-110 Fury.
My own score, on first watch, was 115-111 Fury.
A draw, for me, would have been an acceptable outcome, had at least 2 of the judges returned a 113-113 card. The controversy comes in the 115-111 Wilder card. I don't see any possible way of arriving at that tally, without either incompetence or corruption being at play.
Calling the result a robbery may be harsh, but the card in favour of Wilder IS highly erroneous. It's borderline. Fury SHOULD have been the official winner, but there is a legitimate path to a draw, even if it does mean you have to give Wilder the benefit of the doubt in every close round, on 2/3 official scorecards.
I am certain Wilder didn't WIN the fight, outright. Anything else, I'm happy to reasonably accept.
Re: The Last Word on Tyson Fury vs Deontay Wilder
Posted: 11 Dec 2018, 13:49
by oogiebe
Deleted_Scenes wrote: ↑11 Dec 2018, 13:42
A very fair assessment of the fight.
For me, round 2, 3, and 4, were the most difficult to score. Judging from your breakdown, it seems that fits your own view.
A few other rounds were also close, but I didn't feel they were close enough that there wasn't a 'correct' winner.
Fury: 1, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11
Close: 2, 3, 4
Wilder: 9, 12 (both 10-8)
I've seen arguments that Fury 'winning' the majority of the action in the 9th and 12th, aside from the knockdowns, means either or both of those rounds could be scored 10-9. I disagree. For that to happen, the downed fighter needs to dominate the remainder of the action, not just edge it, and ideally hurt the fighter who scored the knockdown in the process. Fury didn't do that for me.
I also believe there's an argument the 9th round knockdown technically came from an illegal blow (to the back of Fury's head). True or not, I'm not convinced it was a deliberate illegal blow, more as a result of Fury's movement putting the back of his own head in the line of fire (many other fighters have scored legitimate knockdowns in this fashion - notably GGG, who I generally root for - so I would be biased to penalise Wilder in this way). Either way, Reiss ruled a knockdown, and judges are not permitted to overrule that decision on their cards. This is also not a valid reason to score the 9th 10-9 Wilder - indeed, if it WAS permitted to overrule the referee, that would make the round 10-9 Fury, as he edged the rest of the action.
In short, giving every benefit to Wilder returns a score of 113-113.
Giving every benefit to Fury returns a score of 116-110 Fury.
My own score, on first watch, was 115-111 Fury.
A draw, for me, would have been an acceptable outcome, had at least 2 of the judges returned a 113-113 card. The controversy comes in the 115-111 Wilder card. I don't see any possible way of arriving at that tally, without either incompetence or corruption being at play.
Calling the result a robbery may be harsh, but the card in favour of Wilder IS highly erroneous. It's borderline. Fury SHOULD have been the official winner, but there is a legitimate path to a draw, even if it does mean you have to give Wilder the benefit of the doubt in every close round, on 2/3 official scorecards.
I am certain Wilder didn't WIN the fight, outright. Anything else, I'm happy to reasonably accept.
We agree 100%. I'd have to really 'push' to have Wilder the winner. Draw seems fair, but Fury by a couple of rounds seems fairer. Looking forward to a rematch.
Re: The Last Word on Tyson Fury vs Deontay Wilder
Posted: 11 Dec 2018, 17:07
by fanman
i didnt have a chance to rewatch the entire fight. first time, it definetly felt like fury won, and was robbed of an epic comeback win. especially because he fought back hard from the knockdowns.
ultimately fury was knocked down twice by the champ, probably some early rounds were close, so wilder deserves a rematch.
so all is fair in love and war. re-match, winner takes all the glory. and both are still top heavies, regardless.
Re: The Last Word on Tyson Fury vs Deontay Wilder
Posted: 11 Dec 2018, 19:55
by Duran1970
Wilder deserves a rematch????..he's the champ ..
You mean Fury deserves a rematch.
Re: The Last Word on Tyson Fury vs Deontay Wilder
Posted: 11 Dec 2018, 23:01
by HomicideHenry
Glad to see Gilgamesh reverse his opinion
pretty precise breakdown. I seen it a little bit wider than that, but regardless, when somebody dislikes Fury and admits that he won you know it was a robbery.
Re: The Last Word on Tyson Fury vs Deontay Wilder
Posted: 11 Dec 2018, 23:18
by Onetimeonly
you never cease to embellish any statement.