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Re: ROACH
Posted: 15 Dec 2018, 13:38
by ALI
lillywhite14 wrote: ↑15 Dec 2018, 07:39
After reading it, not sure why he’s getting grief for what he’s said. He has a point. Fury is always a little too cautious
Far too cautious IMO. In his great win against Klitschko, he was gun shy, similar against Wilder. He's a big, athletic dude and should impose himself more by letting his big shots off with more regularity, its like he wants too keep away from starting a real fight, which may sound silly i know, but against both Klit and Wilder he had so much opportunity to drop bombs, but he never seemed to want to take the openings.
Roach has a very valid point. Not sure about him airing it the way he did, but who cares, his point is a good one. Ben clearly did a good job, who can be hard on a guy dropping in from nowhere straight into the top level like that, but he definately showed signs of inexperience, he was far too calm during the last round like the fight was already won. Thats ok during the first round, but not the final round against one of the biggest bangers in history. He needed Fury on point during the last 3 minutes and should have been more stern with him IMO.
Re: ROACH
Posted: 15 Dec 2018, 13:39
by spudder56
I’ve always held the opinion that the trainer is only as good as the boxer
Re: ROACH
Posted: 15 Dec 2018, 13:40
by oogiebe
spudder56 wrote: ↑15 Dec 2018, 13:39
I’ve always held the opinion that the trainer is only as good as the boxer
Emmanual Steward was the best trainer in my lifetime. He showed over and over again that he could make a fighter better. McCall/Lewis/Wlad...etc.
Re: ROACH
Posted: 15 Dec 2018, 13:58
by TheLeprechaun
KiwiRider wrote: ↑14 Dec 2018, 19:25
What would Roach teach him anyway?
Davidson dis his job- get Tyson fit and motivated, Tyson did the rest. Job done.
Roach has only had success with guys who were already good, the guys he has brought up from nothing all fail at the top level, usually miserably.
Roach is good at making a fighter good at what they already do. He can also add little things here and there. Pac used his right hand more and more body punches. Postol showed improved cutting off the ring and snappier jab in the Crawford fight. I also think Roach is good at correcting punch technique and his fighters generally punch harder. I kind of like his approach. His thing is definitely adding more offense and I think that's what Fury needs. You keep feinting and moving back to counter Wilder and you give him more confidence and time to catch you at the end of his shots and that's what happened. I think Fury could have stamped his own authority on the fight more, thrown more punches, been the bully. It's a problem in the Wlad fight too. Fury has developed a good backfoot/counter game but he is lacking in an offensive game and that's why these fights are too close.
Maybe Wilder is just too dangerous for that though. The problem with Wilder is that he can starch you as he moves backwards so you really have to be cautious at all times. Fury never really hurt Wilder or took too many chances. You always got the feeling that Wilder was the more dangerous guy. He was the alpha male in there and Fury was trying to be the slick boxer.
My opinion on Fury is that he doesn't have the athleticism to pull off the style he is trying to pull off vs a Wilder or Joshua. What I mean is, he's going to eventually get hit clean. Both of those guys are better athletes and won't fight with the cowardice Wlad fought with. They will let their hands go. I don't think Fury has the speed and reflexes to pull off his style against them for 12 rounds successfully without getting hit and the knockdowns will cost him the fight. For me he needs a little more offense to his game. He's got enough power to hurt these guys and make them weary. I feel like Joshua and Wilder are too good not to land cleanly on Fury over 12.
Re: ROACH
Posted: 15 Dec 2018, 14:18
by KiwiRider
TheLeprechaun wrote: ↑15 Dec 2018, 13:58
KiwiRider wrote: ↑14 Dec 2018, 19:25
What would Roach teach him anyway?
Davidson dis his job- get Tyson fit and motivated, Tyson did the rest. Job done.
Roach has only had success with guys who were already good, the guys he has brought up from nothing all fail at the top level, usually miserably.
Roach is good at making a fighter good at what they already do. He can also add little things here and there. Pac used his right hand more and more body punches. Postol showed improved cutting off the ring and snappier jab in the Crawford fight. I also think Roach is good at correcting punch technique and his fighters generally punch harder. I kind of like his approach. His thing is definitely adding more offense and I think that's what Fury needs. You keep feinting and moving back to counter Wilder and you give him more confidence and time to catch you at the end of his shots and that's what happened. I think Fury could have stamped his own authority on the fight more, thrown more punches, been the bully. It's a problem in the Wlad fight too. Fury has developed a good backfoot/counter game but he is lacking in an offensive game and that's why these fights are too close.
Maybe Wilder is just too dangerous for that though. The problem with Wilder is that he can starch you as he moves backwards so you really have to be cautious at all times. Fury never really hurt Wilder or took too many chances. You always got the feeling that Wilder was the more dangerous guy. He was the alpha male in there and Fury was trying to be the slick boxer.
My opinion on Fury is that he doesn't have the athleticism to pull off the style he is trying to pull off vs a Wilder or Joshua. What I mean is, he's going to eventually get hit clean. Both of those guys are better athletes and won't fight with the cowardice Wlad fought with. They will let their hands go. I don't think Fury has the speed and reflexes to pull off his style against them for 12 rounds successfully without getting hit and the knockdowns will cost him the fight. For me he needs a little more offense to his game. He's got enough power to hurt these guys and make them weary. I feel like Joshua and Wilder are too good not to land cleanly on Fury over 12.
Nice response
I agree with you about Fury and his offence. There were a few times on his fight with Wilder where just one or two right hands following his double jab and single right hand that could have changed the fight.
Re: ROACH
Posted: 17 Dec 2018, 10:51
by jamamb
lillywhite14 wrote: ↑15 Dec 2018, 07:39
After reading it, not sure why he’s getting grief for what he’s said. He has a point. Fury is always a little too cautious
ya roach wasnt out of line at all, dont know why some are so offended by it, bit strange really
Re: ROACH
Posted: 17 Dec 2018, 10:54
by jamamb
Controversial wrote: ↑15 Dec 2018, 13:20
I watched an interview with Hatton the other day, he also criticised the tactics slightly, said he would have wanted Fury to use his weight more and lean on Wilder.
omg f@ck hatton that snidy stupid pudendum!! so overrated and never helped any fighter!! why is he even allowed to voice an opinion!!!
etc
Re: ROACH
Posted: 17 Dec 2018, 10:59
by Controversial
jamamb wrote: ↑17 Dec 2018, 10:54
Controversial wrote: ↑15 Dec 2018, 13:20
I watched an interview with Hatton the other day, he also criticised the tactics slightly, said he would have wanted Fury to use his weight more and lean on Wilder.
omg f@ck hatton that snidy stupid pudendum!! so overrated and never helped any fighter!! why is he even allowed to voice an opinion!!!
etc
Exactly !!
Re: ROACH
Posted: 24 Feb 2020, 19:51
by margaret thatcher
Hmmm
A lot of cry babies were crying 'pudendum' at Roach for saying Fury should've been more offensive and that Davison had it wrong
Re: ROACH
Posted: 24 Feb 2020, 19:57
by TheLeprechaun
Roach has been around the block. He was totally right in what he said but he still showed poor taste saying it publicly
Re: ROACH
Posted: 24 Feb 2020, 19:59
by oogiebe
TheLeprechaun wrote: ↑24 Feb 2020, 19:57
Roach has been around the block. He was totally right in what he said but he still showed poor taste saying it publicly
Agreed. That was my issue with it. Maybe Roach should train Wilder? LOL!
Re: ROACH
Posted: 24 Feb 2020, 20:01
by margaret thatcher
I almost think most of you haven't seen the interview, he wasn't offensive or out of line at all, it wasn't some long winded cursing diatribe, it was well thought out and made perfect sense. I don't see why publically disagreeing is a cuntt move, he barely even knows Ben Davison
He was spot on and maybe if he'd been more forceful or listened to this would be Fury's 2nd KO win
Re: ROACH
Posted: 25 Feb 2020, 03:57
by Delta Jay
One big result and people are losing their minds. So now Roach and Davison are clueless muppets and Tyson is a p4p ATG.
He’ll look listless fighting Dave Allen next or go on another bender and everyone will flip-flop again, there’s no need for being too up or too far down on any individuals.