BoxRec

I think that was a positive documentry, it is these kind of things which appeal to a main stream audiance that we should all support because it means that our sport will be more popular. The talking heads were all interesting even if they did gush now and again. You have to have a bit on tyson for all the lads in shirts brigade who don't know much about boxing but take a casual interest.

I look forward to seeing the futour episodes.

josh fg wrote: You have to have a bit on tyson for all the lads in shirts brigade who don't know much about boxing but take a casual interest

neil r wrote:

tonyevs wrote:Don`t know about the bolt in the glove but I heard about plaster of paris being sprinkled onto the bandages..
Am I correct in saying Doc Kearns spread some stories on these lines when he got dropped as Dempseys manager?

One of boxings urban myths, dempsey with the loaded gloves!! the story goes that Kearns, or someone, has dipped Dempseys gloves in plaster of paris which gradually hardened during the course of the fight. this myth was born due to the amount of damage dempsey inflicted upon willard.

however there is a perfectly clear picture in Roger Khans book 'a flame of pure fire' that shows dempsey climbing into the ring prior to the willard fight without his gloves on, this was the days when the fighters gloved up in the ring, and the bandages over his fists are perfect. there is absolutely no sign of plaster of paris, horsehoes, anvils or tanks (ala popeye).

ill try and scan the pic and post it when i get home from work tonight.

there we go...



and a wee close up of the hand...

Well the second part was ok, although I have seen better on the subect of race and Boxing.

One question though, is it true that Jack Johnson gave some tactical tips on how to beat Joe Louis to Max Schmeling?

KOJOE90 wrote:Well the second part was ok, although I have seen better on the subect of race and Boxing.

One question though, is it true that Jack Johnson gave some tactical tips on how to beat Joe Louis to Max Schmeling?

What Im interested to know is did it really take Jack Johnson to point out that Louis dropped his other hand when he punched.

I too picked up they seemed to suggest Johnson somehow highlighted Joe Louis weakness in dropping the left hand to Schmeling.
But they did not say it though did they, so did he or didn`t he? I know he was one of the very few people who favoured Schmeling in the first fight, so much so he had to have a police escort for his own protection after the fight.

tonyevs wrote:I too picked up they seemed to suggest Johnson somehow highlighted Joe Louis weakness in dropping the left hand to Schmeling.

I've posted this question on The Boxers Of The Past Forum, hopefully I will get some interesting feedback.

Just a reminder

Was that Boxing News US correspondent Jim Brady giving his views?

What the hell did he have on his head? It can't have been a rug surely. Does he have access to a mirror?

lamphey wrote:Was that Boxing News US correspondent Jim Brady giving his views?

What the hell did he have on his head? It can't have been a rug surely. Does he have access to a mirror?

I had a good laugh to myself at that as well!! I wonder does it "Bite" ???

I think this doc series on the BBC is great, I am really enjoying them all. So far, last weeks was my fav on Jack Johnson and Joe Louis.

How could anyone not spot steve holdsworth as the ref in one of the acted fights

Was he really? I didn't notice that....

lamphey wrote:Was that Boxing News US correspondent Jim Brady giving his views?

What the hell did he have on his head? It can't have been a rug surely. Does he have access to a mirror?

AT LEAST WE KNOW WHAT HAPPENED TO BASIL BRUSH.

I enjoyed watching yesterdays the fight. Mentioned how the mafia was involved with rigging fights and paying fighters to throw the fights and lose. Had Jake La Motta talking about if he threw a certain fight he'd get a shot at the title. Then went to talking about Ali fighting Sonny Liston and Lsiton being controlled by the mob. When he had a rematch with Liston though that punch he did to Ko him was dodgey, it showed were he hit him with special technology and he hit him in the jaw as he dodged Liston's punch.

That special technology was basic 3-d modelling, nothing particularly magical about it. Would that shot have been enough to stop Liston, who usually had a rock solid jaw, that's the question it cannot answer.

Part of me has always thought both fights were fixed.

I agree, the 1st fight Liston's just going through the motions then suddenly quits. The second one Liston falls down at the first opportunity and doesn't want to get up.

It's one of those things you just wish you knew for sure isn't it. It's easy to speculate, but to really know for a fact would be something special.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:It's one of those things you just wish you knew for sure isn't it. It's easy to speculate, but to really know for a fact would be something special.

I missed the show (AGAIN!!), but Gill Clancy is convinced that the "phantom" punch was a good shot that could well have done that amount of damage to Liston. He said it happened in an earlier Clay fight in which one of Clancy's boxers got nailed by a similar punch and was lights out.

Nah, 'twas the arm punch of arm punches

The thing which makes me suspect is Ali's reaction. Ali is visibly annoyed that Liston has gone down, and screams at him to get up. That would indicate to me that Ali knew that the shot didn't land with a lot of force, and that he thought Liston was faking.

Of course, that doesn't make Ali right, but it adds to the suscpicion that Liston wasn't interested in making it up. The way he rolls about on the canvas is less than convincing too. Liston appeared fine once the fight resumed, despite supposedly being all over the place. He seemed to wait on the canvas long enough to be counted out.

I guess only Sonny and a few others really knew what happened. I don't think anyone else has more than an educated guess.

good to see the old fight clips, that liston body shot he gave to patterson was a killer, surprised he didn`t punch a hole into poor Floyd.

jamesmcdonnell wrote:The thing which makes me suspect is Ali's reaction. Ali is visibly annoyed that Liston has gone down, and screams at him to get up.

Maybe that was just because Ali was just so hyped up? I lean to the theory that it was a good sharp shot that caught Liston cold and/or by surprise.

Liston by this point was an old fighter with a big drink problem, whom had struggled for years and finally won the Title and guess what? Still nobody cared about him. He was the Heavyweight Champion of the World and he felt still nobody cared. That's bound to have an effect on a fighters spirit.

Liston was also in with a fighter who had the style to beat him every day of the week and I believe deep down Liston knew this to.

So when he got caught early I believe a mixture of shock, confusion over the count and Ali stood over him shouting and acting like a nut, Liston thought "sod it, nobody will care if I win anyway, so why take the chance of another beating".

Well that's my theory, but like you rightly say none of us can be really certain.

As I said I missed the show and it may be able to answe my question, however I have always been interested to know why Liston was cast aside by boxing after that fight. I mean, he only lost once again and did score some good victories right untill his death (Chuck Wepner). Why wasn't he involved in the heavyweight title elimination tournament?

stujones wrote:As I said I missed the show and it may be able to answe my question, however I have always been interested to know why Liston was cast aside by boxing after that fight. I mean, he only lost once again and did score some good victories right untill his death (Chuck Wepner). Why wasn't he involved in the heavyweight title elimination tournament?

The then powerful New York Commission had pulled his license because of his mob connections. Most US states followed suit.