dagilechia wrote: ↑03 Jan 2019, 18:10
i wonder if same people who want to see Whyte vs AJ and say that he deserve it would say the same about Povetkin if he defeats Whyte
I can only speak for myself but I'd say "No". Why is that?
The fight between Joshua and Whyte was a long time ago in terms of where they are now. Whyte was extremely inexperienced and it was no secret that he was nursing a shoulder injury going into that fight.
Both are better fighters now but Whyte has improved a lot more. He had only a handful of amateur bouts. Joshua didn't have a lot in terms of numbers but he fought at a high level. As an Olympic champion Joshua was much further along when he fought Whyte as pros. That's why I say Whyte has improved much more, he had a lot further to go.
Whyte, despite his injury and his inexperience, wobbled AJ and gave him arguably his second toughest fight up until now. He continues to take on tough challenges and prevail. It's easy to sneer looking back, but before the Lucas Browne fight it looked 50/50. Browne was an undefeated former WBA champion having knocked out Ruslan Chagaev in his own backyard, Helenius was a very experienced top twentyish pro once considered heir apparent to Wladimir Klitchko, and Chisora never lost to anyone who wasn't at least of fringe-contender status.
Despite all this there isn't a huge appetite for Joshua v Whyte II in the UK even if you would have to be a churlish b'stard to deny that Whyte has earned his shot.
Contrast that with Povetkin: Sasha acquitted himself very well, he surprised AJ and he hurt him. Having said that the result was conclusive and emphatic. It was very recent and Povetkin isn't getting any better. There is rightly no interest in a rematch between AJ and Sasha.
okay, so no interest... but could we say that he ''deserved it'' if he beats Whyte?
Whyte vs Browne 50/50? Browne was old and inactive PED user with terrible record, i have probably never ranked him in my top 30.
Re: Whyte says it's Povetkin if not AJ
Posted: 04 Jan 2019, 09:48
by dagilechia
seems like a lot of people think that Whyte has a better stamina than Povetkin, they'll be surprised if this fight will happen.
Re: Whyte says it's Povetkin if not AJ
Posted: 04 Jan 2019, 12:09
by candyslim
dagilechia wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 09:47
okay, so no interest... but could we say that he ''deserved it'' if he beats Whyte?
Whyte vs Browne 50/50? Browne was old and inactive PED user with terrible record, i have probably never ranked him in my top 30.
I guess you could say that because most accept Whyte deserves the shot, then logically the man who beats him would have to deserve a shot too.
Anybody disputing that would be doing so on the basis that Whyte has kept active at a high level so his shot isn't only deserved just because he had one good win.
I think Browne was deserving of a top ten ranking after the Chagaev win. He deserved much better than 30 but that was then and 30 might be regarded as generous now based on the Whyte fight - not so much getting sparked. more the condition he showed up in.
Re: Whyte says it's Povetkin if not AJ
Posted: 04 Jan 2019, 12:20
by danconnollyeire
TheBeast wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 01:39
Povetkin wins by KTFO
Povetkin hasn't KTFO'd anyone since the drugs ban except Price, who gettings KTFO by pretty much everyone he faces nowadays. There's no evidence that he carries that kind of power since coming off the drugs. Whyte has a good chin
TheBeast wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 01:39
Povetkin wins by KTFO
Povetkin hasn't KTFO'd anyone since the drugs ban except Price, who gettings KTFO by pretty much everyone he faces nowadays. There's no evidence that he carries that kind of power since coming off the drugs. Whyte has a good chin
Whyte does have a decent chin and you're right. Pov hasn't shown the kind of power that made him feared in quite some time. I think Whyte is getting better since AJ fight, and it's a shame if he doesn't get the title shot at this point.
Re: Whyte says it's Povetkin if not AJ
Posted: 04 Jan 2019, 13:36
by candyslim
He does but he can look vulnerable early in a fight. If you take a look at the Helenius fight, round 2 IIRC, Whyte was caught by Helenius and I thought he might not last the round, but he did and then he took over. He was also struggling against Joshua in round one then he got through it and had AJ looking unsteady in the next.
Once he is warmed up and fully underway he has a pretty good chin.
Re: Whyte says it's Povetkin if not AJ
Posted: 04 Jan 2019, 15:51
by Pukka Cheese
Some interesting comments from Whyte re next fight / April 13th.
- No talks so far.
- Speaks to Eddie in 2 weeks.
-If hes fighting Joshua he wants to know right now, fight of that magnitude needs 4months+ to prepare, have drug testing etc
- Not a mug.
- Thinks Joshua will fight Miller.
- Breazeale, Miller & Charr (if wba reg) are the options outside of AJ/Wilder/Fury.
dagilechia wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 09:47
okay, so no interest... but could we say that he ''deserved it'' if he beats Whyte?
Whyte vs Browne 50/50? Browne was old and inactive PED user with terrible record, i have probably never ranked him in my top 30.
I guess you could say that because most accept Whyte deserves the shot, then logically the man who beats him would have to deserve a shot too.
Anybody disputing that would be doing so on the basis that Whyte has kept active at a high level so his shot isn't only deserved just because he had one good win.
I think Browne was deserving of a top ten ranking after the Chagaev win. He deserved much better than 30 but that was then and 30 might be regarded as generous now based on the Whyte fight - not so much getting sparked. more the condition he showed up in.
maybe, but beating 3-4 top 10-15 fighters is imo not better than beating one fighter that beat 3-4 top 10 fighters, but i get your point, anyway i doubt that Whyte will fight Povetkin
outcome of Whyte vs Browne was not a surprise for me, it was just as i predicted it to be
He defeated inactive Chagaev that 2 years before their fight won by MD vs Fres Oquendo
Re: Whyte says it's Povetkin if not AJ
Posted: 04 Jan 2019, 18:14
by oogiebe
dagilechia wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 09:48
seems like a lot of people think that Whyte has a better stamina than Povetkin, they'll be surprised if this fight will happen.
I don't know about that. Pov hasn't shown any stamina issues as far as I can remember, and Whyte's has been questioned in the past. Whyte was tiring in the Chisora rematch, but I'm not sure who wouldn't have been with all that constant pressure on him. I think Whyte takes Pov at this point.
dagilechia wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 09:47
okay, so no interest... but could we say that he ''deserved it'' if he beats Whyte?
Whyte vs Browne 50/50? Browne was old and inactive PED user with terrible record, i have probably never ranked him in my top 30.
I guess you could say that because most accept Whyte deserves the shot, then logically the man who beats him would have to deserve a shot too.
Anybody disputing that would be doing so on the basis that Whyte has kept active at a high level so his shot isn't only deserved just because he had one good win.
I think Browne was deserving of a top ten ranking after the Chagaev win. He deserved much better than 30 but that was then and 30 might be regarded as generous now based on the Whyte fight - not so much getting sparked. more the condition he showed up in.
maybe, but beating 3-4 top 10-15 fighters is imo not better than beating one fighter that beat 3-4 top 10 fighters, but i get your point, anyway i doubt that Whyte will fight Povetkin
outcome of Whyte vs Browne was not a surprise for me, it was just as i predicted it to be
He defeated inactive Chagaev that 2 years before their fight won by MD vs Fres Oquendo
Fair enough. I'm not sure I agree or disagree your first point (quality over quantity) but it makes good sense.
If I were neutral and not emotionally invested, I'm sure I would have been more confident of Whyte beating Browne but I would still have respected Browne as a serious challenge ... right up to the moment he took off his robe
I'm not suggesting Chagaev was a standout heavyweight or anything, there again we shouldn't forget that Fres Oquendo wasn't always regarded as the pathetic joke character he has sadly become.
I guess you could say that because most accept Whyte deserves the shot, then logically the man who beats him would have to deserve a shot too.
Anybody disputing that would be doing so on the basis that Whyte has kept active at a high level so his shot isn't only deserved just because he had one good win.
I think Browne was deserving of a top ten ranking after the Chagaev win. He deserved much better than 30 but that was then and 30 might be regarded as generous now based on the Whyte fight - not so much getting sparked. more the condition he showed up in.
maybe, but beating 3-4 top 10-15 fighters is imo not better than beating one fighter that beat 3-4 top 10 fighters, but i get your point, anyway i doubt that Whyte will fight Povetkin
outcome of Whyte vs Browne was not a surprise for me, it was just as i predicted it to be
He defeated inactive Chagaev that 2 years before their fight won by MD vs Fres Oquendo
I'm not suggesting Chagaev was a standout heavyweight or anything, there again we shouldn't forget that Fres Oquendo wasn't always regarded as the pathetic joke character he has sadly become.
that's true but i doubt that back then when he fought Chagaev someone had him in top 30, maybe even in top 50
Re: Whyte says it's Povetkin if not AJ
Posted: 04 Jan 2019, 20:10
by candyslim
I had him about 14 in 2015. His best wins at that time were over a well past it James Toney, a stoppage of an outgunned Richard Towers and a close but unanimous decision over the tough but limited Andrei Rudenko.
You know what they say ... "In the Kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is King". (or at least 14th in the rankings, eh? )
Re: Whyte says it's Povetkin if not AJ
Posted: 04 Jan 2019, 20:27
by dagilechia
candyslim wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 20:10
I had him about 14 in 2015. His best wins at that time were over a well past it James Toney, a stoppage of an outgunned Richard Towers and a close but unanimous decision over the tough but limited Andrei Rudenko.
You know what they say ... "In the Kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is King". (or at least 14th in the rankings, eh? )
sorry, i should precise, i meant Oquendo. i meant that nobody ranked Oquendo in top 30 or even top 50 (i certainly hadn't) when he lost MD to Chagaev so i don't think that Browne on PEDS deserves much credit of beating Chagaev
Re: Whyte says it's Povetkin if not AJ
Posted: 05 Jan 2019, 02:58
by candyslim
Right. Sorry that should have been obvious to me. You know boxing. No way would you have had Browne outside the top 50.
Oquendo at that time was extremely inactive and hadn't beaten anyone more threatening than Derric Rossy or Joey Abell since Demetrice King in 2010 so I now take your point.
Re: Whyte says it's Povetkin if not AJ
Posted: 05 Jan 2019, 04:06
by DrDuke
Povetkin is more skillful, if he only isn't too old and doesn't gas out in the second half of the fight, he'll beat Whyte.
Re: Whyte says it's Povetkin if not AJ
Posted: 05 Jan 2019, 04:12
by candyslim
I thought he was doing well against Joshua until he started to slow down. At 38 (or is he 39 now?) it would be something of a surprise if his stamina was what it was five years ago - trust me I know about these things
TheBeast wrote: ↑04 Jan 2019, 01:39
Povetkin wins by KTFO
Povetkin hasn't KTFO'd anyone since the drugs ban except Price, who gettings KTFO by pretty much everyone he faces nowadays. There's no evidence that he carries that kind of power since coming off the drugs. Whyte has a good chin
Whyte does have a decent chin and you're right. Pov hasn't shown the kind of power that made him feared in quite some time. I think Whyte is getting better since AJ fight, and it's a shame if he doesn't get the title shot at this point.
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