BoxRec

I pick Ali. Much faster, and more heart. None of the two are great Inside fighters, but, I will pick Ali in a toe to toe warfare.

I think if Lewis brought his A game he'd edge out the win--- after all he had not just the real & size to negate the physicalities of Ali, he had the power to keep Ali off of him, and best of all he had the ring IQ to formulate a plan to nullify Ali's speed and elusiveness.

It wouldn't be easy though. If Zev could make it last 12 rounds by sheer footwork, then Ali is going to do the same as well. Combine that with Ali's fast hands & willingness to occasionally mix it up, and it becomes harder for Lewis.

In this era, though, it seems power is highly emphasized more so than ever. Outside of Mayweather, it seems anyone who dances & showboats & tries to psyche someone out with taunts, etc--- is seen as a fundamental weakness. Case in point--- Fury against Klitschko & Wilder--- where the critics completely downplay Fury's ability to make men hesitate to throw punches strictly by moving around, making faces, etc. Wilder, in reality, won two rounds and yet he got a draw.

In this day and age, Ali's tactics wouldn't be considered favorable. So the harder punching Lewis, forcing the issue--- since Ali rarely ever pressed the action--- would be considered automatically the man trying to make a final of it. That's strike one for Ali.

Jabs, which was Ali & Lewis' standby, is seen as virtually meaningless today. So whoever throws the more hooks, etc--- which would most likely be Lewis--- is going to get favoritism. So that's strike two for Ali.

Ali, being the shorter man, will have to try and get to Lewis at some point. When he does, Lewis will simply tie him up and lean on Him--- just like Ali did to his opponents, pulling down on the neck. Since Lewis is 245+ and Ali is 215 it's a no brainer who is going to really feel the weight disparity.

Lewis, despite his size, also had pretty fast hands--- this will give Ali fits, because unlike Liston and Foreman this big heavyweight has speed and precision and a snap behind those punches. It's not some thudding blow that chops at you, but like a bull whip followed up by a battering ram.

Worst of all, Lewis has Emmanuel Stewart in his corner--- a man whose pugilistic genius was equally as great as Dundee's and if Lewis can't figure Ali out he certainly would. That's strike three.

It wouldn't be easy. Majority if not so decision for the giant Englishman.

Jabs are virtually meaningless today? Really? Where did you pull that out of?
Lewis hand speed would give Ali fits? That is just comical.
Worst of all, having Emmanuel Lewis in Lewis corner ? Then you go on to say he is Dundee's equal. (lol)
Well guess what, that would mean that Dundee was also Steward's equal. So the trainer advantage would be a wash.

Honest, do you even read your own posts?

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑17 Apr 2019, 10:54 Jabs are virtually meaningless today? Really? Where did you pull that out of?
Lewis hand speed would give Ali fits? That is just comical.
Worst of all, having Emmanuel Lewis in Lewis corner ? Then you go on to say he is Dundee's equal. (lol)
Well guess what, that would mean that Dundee was also Steward's equal. So the trainer advantage would be a wash.

Honest, do you even read your own posts?

Alp.... You're a fine man... But you have to be one of the most pessimistic men I've ever come across... In scenario's like this it's all subjective and opinion... It's no more real than the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man... So why do you get so upset?

Lewis, for a man 6'5"+ and 245+ pounds did have damned good hand speed. Especially in his early career fighting men like Gary Mason and Frank Bruno and Razor Ruddock when he was 230'ish pounds and younger.

And yes, in today's instant gratification culture jabs have been devalued--- GGG landed all night on Canelo & was robbed. Fury gets a draw after jabbing Wilder all night long. Etc. I'd hate for a Willie Pep to be around today, he'd never get a fair shake in the 21st century. We agree to disagree on this but that's fine Alp. It's just opinion.

My implication of Stewart is that if Dundee is an asset, then so is Stewart. Personally I think Stewart was better than Dundee. He was on that Eddie Futch and Cus D'Amato and Charlie Goldman level of boxing knowledge. Again, we agree to disagree.

Fury landed less than 10 punches in many rounds. What is your obsession with comparing this guy with fighters like Ali and Lewis? He's definitely much better than I ever thought he would be, but give it a rest.

I believe he "interviewed" his trainer or something like that once. He had a post on it a while back. Maybe he can clarify. It's been hero worship ever since. He landed less than 50 jabs the entire fight and he claims that he jabbed Wilder's head off.

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑17 Apr 2019, 23:29 Alp.... You're a fine man... But you have to be one of the most pessimistic men I've ever come across... In scenario's like this it's all subjective and opinion... It's no more real than the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man... So why do you get so upset?

Lewis, for a man 6'5"+ and 245+ pounds did have damned good hand speed. Especially in his early career fighting men like Gary Mason and Frank Bruno and Razor Ruddock when he was 230'ish pounds and younger.

And yes, in today's instant gratification culture jabs have been devalued--- GGG landed all night on Canelo & was robbed. Fury gets a draw after jabbing Wilder all night long. Etc. I'd hate for a Willie Pep to be around today, he'd never get a fair shake in the 21st century. We agree to disagree on this but that's fine Alp. It's just opinion.

My implication of Stewart is that if Dundee is an asset, then so is Stewart. Personally I think Stewart was better than Dundee. He was on that Eddie Futch and Cus D'Amato and Charlie Goldman level of boxing knowledge. Again, we agree to disagree.

I'm not pessimistic. You might want to look up the word so that you know what it means. I am just disagreeing with you.

Lewis did not have the hand speed to give Ali problems. Ali fought literally dozens of guys with superior hand speed to Lennox Lewis. I was point out that your comment is silly. A prime Ali's hand speed was much, much faster than Lewis. Not even remotely close.

I also like how earlier you said Lewis could use his 245 pounds to lean on Ali and wear him out. (as if a prime Ali is going to let him do that.) Now you are saying that the 230 pound Lewis had really fast hands. (which he really didn't)
I hate to break it you, but Lewis can't weigh 245 and 230 for the same fight.

Your comment about jabs don't hold water at all. As mentioned earlier, Fury didn't land many jabs at all. Yes jabs count. They count in scoring. They also help keep your opponent from scoring. Yes when Ali was fighting. Yes when Lewis was fighting. Yes even today.
And I don't know why you keep acting like Lewis is a current fighter. He has not fought in almost 16 years.

As for Stewart and Dundee -Well in your earlier post you said that they were equal. So that means there is no advantage for Steward. Steward was an asset. So was Dundee. And Steward was not his trainer when he was younger and supposedly had this great hand speed.

As for your comment "It's no more real than the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man" -
Well of course it's not real. We talking about a fight that didn't and couldn't happen. We do this quite a bit. It doesn't mean that we shouldn't be use knowledge, commonsense, and try to be fair. No I'm not all upset. I do however, prefer it when people know what they are talking about.

When I watch Clay/Liston, I can't picture Lennox having anymore luck landing his jab, and without his jab he's clueless!

If he's the weight he was for Mercer and Mavrovic it's going to be very hard going for him over 15 rounds versus an elusive athlete with blinding fast hands.

I think a more even match up is Lennox versus the coke-free Pinky Thomas that jabbed Witherspoon's head off. That would be very interesting.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑18 Apr 2019, 11:26 I'm not pessimistic. You might want to look up the word so that you know what it means. I am just disagreeing with you.

Lewis did not have the hand speed to give Ali problems. Ali fought literally dozens of guys with superior hand speed to Lennox Lewis. I was point out that your comment is silly. A prime Ali's hand speed was much, much faster than Lewis. Not even remotely close.

I also like how earlier you said Lewis could use his 245 pounds to lean on Ali and wear him out. (as if a prime Ali is going to let him do that.) Now you are saying that the 230 pound Lewis had really fast hands. (which he really didn't)
I hate to break it you, but Lewis can't weigh 245 and 230 for the same fight.

Your comment about jabs don't hold water at all. As mentioned earlier, Fury didn't land many jabs at all. Yes jabs count. They count in scoring. They also help keep your opponent from scoring. Yes when Ali was fighting. Yes when Lewis was fighting. Yes even today.
And I don't know why you keep acting like Lewis is a current fighter. He has not fought in almost 16 years.

As for Stewart and Dundee -Well in your earlier post you said that they were equal. So that means there is no advantage for Steward. Steward was an asset. So was Dundee. And Steward was not his trainer when he was younger and supposedly had this great hand speed.

As for your comment "It's no more real than the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man" -
Well of course it's not real. We talking about a fight that didn't and couldn't happen. We do this quite a bit. It doesn't mean that we shouldn't be use knowledge, commonsense, and try to be fair. No I'm not all upset. I do however, prefer it when people know what they are talking about.

Who's Stewart?

I'll go with Ali on points. For those who think Lewis would be too big and too strong for Ali, I think of how Ali fared against Liston and Foreman and think he'll be just fine.

I think on different nights either could win.

But if both are on their best nights I think Ali wins on points.

ewenhay wrote: ↑20 Apr 2019, 16:19 I think on different nights either could win.

But if both are on their best nights I think Ali wins on points.

X2

hhaehre wrote: ↑20 Apr 2019, 12:42 I'll go with Ali on points. For those who think Lewis would be too big and too strong for Ali, I think of how Ali fared against Liston and Foreman and think he'll be just fine.

- Lame. Mention Ali and watch them brains all short circuit as they fry all logic.

Lewis wasn't training on whiskey as Liston was at that point in his career, nor was George 1.0 stylistically anything like Lewis. Moreover George damaged Ali badly, his post fight record being 12-3, 6 KOs and littered with horrific beatings and controversial wins.

As to size, that was the argument AOL ol'Timers used as to why Ali would beat Louis because of 1" of height and 5lbs of prime weight.

Really, various forms of each could beat the other, so unless specific parameters are given, all you gents are doing is howling at the moon.

I would favor most forms of Lewis who had more consistency than Ali. At his best and most motivated, Ali was well beaten up by a little guy with high blood pressure and blind in one eye and barely able to see out the other after Mercante poked his thumb in it.

Mind ye manners and some day some of you will be graced to see this epic settled in Valhalla.

BroughtonRulesRefuge wrote: ↑21 Apr 2019, 07:54 - Lame. Mention Ali and watch them brains all short circuit as they fry all logic.

Yeah, picking Ali to outpoint Lewis is truly insane. It's beyond lame really, truly staggering. Shocking and unheard of, mind-boggling at the very least.

hhaehre wrote: ↑21 Apr 2019, 09:10 Yeah, picking Ali to outpoint Lewis is truly insane. It's beyond lame really, truly staggering. Shocking and unheard of, mind-boggling at the very least.

I'm afraid to tell them that Frazier would beat him too.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑21 Apr 2019, 12:13 I'm afraid to tell them that Frazier would beat him too.

Joe Frazier beating LL?

oogiebe wrote: ↑21 Apr 2019, 12:24 Joe Frazier beating LL?

All day long. Lennox was bothered by evander and Mercer's pressure. Prime Joe would be a nightmare for him.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑21 Apr 2019, 12:25 All day long.

I don't see it. I love Smokin' Joe as much as anyone, but LL just too big and strong, and a better boxer than Foreman who had his way with Joe twice.

oogiebe wrote: ↑21 Apr 2019, 12:26 I don't see it. I love Smokin' Joe as much as anyone, but LL just too big and strong, and a better boxer than Foreman who had his way with Joe twice.

George didn't exactly outbox him. Lennox had an excellent uppercut, he'd definitely have his moments but he couldn't handle Joe's pace.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑21 Apr 2019, 12:30 George didn't exactly outbox him. Lennox had an excellent uppercut, he'd definitely have his moments but he couldn't handle Joe's pace.

I don't think Joe gets close to him (similar to Tua).

oogiebe wrote: ↑21 Apr 2019, 12:31 I don't think Joe gets close to him (similar to Tua).

You think Joe would sit back and eat jabs? That would be a first.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑21 Apr 2019, 12:36 You think Joe would sit back and eat jabs? That would be a first.

I think Lewis would be able to keep him away with his jab enough to really hurt him with his right. Too much size, strength and length.

oogiebe wrote: ↑21 Apr 2019, 12:46 I think Lewis would be able to keep him away with his jab enough to really hurt him with his right. Too much size, strength and length.

Yeah, I find that to be an impossible scenario.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑21 Apr 2019, 12:56 Yeah, I find that to be an impossible scenario.

Of course you do, that's why you disagree. Duh!

oogiebe wrote: ↑21 Apr 2019, 12:58 Of course you do, that's why you disagree. Duh!

Luckily, I'm right.