BoxRec

Estrada is a very good fighter. Top 20 for sure, top 5? surely not for me. Crawford, Spence, loma, Inoue, usyk,

Susej_SOG wrote: ↑27 Apr 2019, 12:47 You does not have arguments.

What you said is totally false.

Wlad, Calzaghe, Floyd (147 version), the Klitschko brothers, the lack of power was present in all of them, and they were making millions.

So, don't talk about what you don't know.

And this is not a contest of power, height, weight, whatever, is boxing.

More garbage.

RKY wrote: ↑27 Apr 2019, 13:04More garbage.

You does not have arguments.


"Hey, it's because smallweight are not able to K.O people !".

-Man, Calzaghe, Klitschko brothers, Ward, Floyd (147 version), Hopkins, they were fighters without power and boring to watch"

"Garbage, garbage, garbage"...

PFFFFFFFFFFFF.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑27 Apr 2019, 12:57 Estrada is a very good fighter. Top 20 for sure, top 5? surely not for me. Crawford, Spence, loma, Inoue, usyk,

TOP-20 for sure, lol.

It does not matter what you think, or what I think, the important thing in this is put arguments on the table.


Inoue? Great young champion but his best win is an old Narvaez that always struggled in the elite level.

Crawford? Best win is small Gamboa, the second best win Postol, that is not better than Cuadras.

Spence? LOL

Usyk? He fought with garbage all the time.

You must be confusing me with someone who gives a shit about your opinion. I have shiro over estrada.

WTF??!!!

Most of the P4P list is created by a biased media.

Spence on the list?

LOL

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑27 Apr 2019, 13:27 You must be confusing me with someone who gives a poo about your opinion. I have shiro over estrada.

What I said it's the truth...

Susej_SOG wrote: ↑27 Apr 2019, 13:40 Most of the P4P list is created by a biased media.

Spence on the list?

LOL





What I said it's the truth...

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑27 Apr 2019, 13:42

0 arguments... ok.





"Usyk is better"

Why?

"Because he is better, the media say this".


LOL.

His best win is a guy called Gassiev

Haven't seen this fight yet (damnable Friday fights! Why are they more commonly a thing now? I almost always end up missing them) and haven't done a P4P list in a while I think. Before the first Rungvisai fight I had Estrada in the top 10, so chances are he'd be back around the same place now. He'd have to have looked unbelievably better than he had ever looked to crack the top 7 - Crawford, Lomachenko Spence, GGG, Canelo, Inoue and Usyk (in no order) - but I'd put him in the mix for best of the rest with Daniel Jacobs and Leo Santa Cruz. Mikey Garcia was poor in his last fight and needs to look good in winning before I'd think of put him in the list with the above again. Probably same with Rungvisai. Other than that no-one obvious springs to mind as someone who should be put above him.

Those that keep him out of the top 10: who else have you got in there other than the 9 I mentioned? Sticking with Mikey Garcia? Kovalev? Berchelt? Gvozdyk? Warrington or Joshua, even? I'm just curious.

Susej_SOG wrote: ↑27 Apr 2019, 11:57 It does not matter what you and me can say, you need to put arguments to this, how I did.

Usyk?

Man, this guy is fighting with B or C class fighters from Island, Croatia, etc, he does not have any rival of world class level.



Crawford? He best win is a small Gamboa, his second best win is Postol, no way in H they are better than a prime Viloria or Sor, of fact, Cuadras was better than Postol.

Inoue has the ceil but right now he does not deserve it.

Loma lost against Salido, but he is a great champion, good career, no doubt about him, he deserved a top-3.

But Estrada is in the top-5.

He does not have media or much power selling tickets and moving the social media, but the truth is the truth

Usyk, has travelled, unified 4 titles on the road, shown a willingness to travel to opponents back yard and passed the eye test. No idea what Croatian you're talking about, but I think that proves my point, you're talking shit...but anyway

Crawford has won titles in 3 weights, strung together a resume that includes major wins over 3 titles, wins over Postol, Gamboa, Burns (on the road)

Inoue has take out guys no one takes out, scored notable wins over Taguchi, Narvaez, Kono, McDonnell, Payano. Eye test is also something he is blitzing.

Loma lost early in his career then bounced back with great wins. We don't devalue Estrada for losing to Sanchez early in his career.

Estrada has lost to his best opponent (Gonzalez), Viloria, Marquez and Segura were all on the slide when he beat them and he's only scored notable wins in 2 divisions. Tanaka has a stronger resume IMO (wins over 2 guys who had life in their career and would go on to win titles after he beat them, rather than beating them at the end of their careers). Nietes has been on top of the sport for 11 years, over 4 divisions, with a number of top wins.

Also if we base it on JUST resume Pacquiao still belongs near, if not at, the top (weighing resume against recent competition)

I do think Estrada is a great fighter, but Gonzalez and Srisaket are his two stand out wins, he was lucky that the judges liked him against Alvarez (that was ultra competitive despite the crap the judges gave), Segura and Maruqez were horribly shot Viloria never showed much afterwards.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑27 Apr 2019, 13:27 You must be confusing me with someone who gives a poo about your opinion. I have shiro over estrada.

A guy who is criminally over-looked and has a very under-rated resume. Wins over Guevara, Lopez and Juarez are solid. The win over Horikawa is aging well too (given Horikawa has won the WBO AP and JBC titles since).

Susej_SOG wrote: ↑27 Apr 2019, 13:46
His best win is a guy called Gassiev

Mate, I don’t know what you’ve injected yourself with today, but STOP!

A guy called Gassiev?

That’s like saying

A guy called Rungvisai?

Rungvisai has been a pro for ages and only became notable with the media 2 years ago.

The first win against Chocolatito was very controversial. Had that fight gone Gonzalez’s way, there would never have been a rematch.

But fair play to SSR, he KO’d the MUCH smaller Gonzalez in the rematch.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑27 Apr 2019, 13:27 I have shiro over estrada.

That's a surprise to me, though I really don't know Shiro's opponents well they don't seem to match Estradas resume.

Boxing Prospect wrote: ↑27 Apr 2019, 14:13 Usyk, has travelled, unified 4 titles on the road, shown a willingness to travel to opponents back yard and passed the eye test. No idea what Croatian you're talking about, but I think that proves my point, you're talking poo...but

That does not matter, what matters is the quality of the rivals, I can go to fight with Juan Muñoz in his hometown, and?

Usyk fought with a lot of B class fighters, nothing great on his resume, of fact, Cuadras is better and has more skills than the rivals of Usyk.

Boxing Prospect wrote: ↑27 Apr 2019, 14:13 Crawford has won titles in 3 weights, strung together a resume that includes major wins over 3 titles, wins over Postol, Gamboa, Burns (on the road)

Inoue has take out guys no one takes out, scored notable wins over Taguchi, Narvaez, Kono, McDonnell, Payano. Eye test is also something he is blitzing.

Loma lost early in his career then bounced back with great wins. We don't devalue Estrada for losing to Sanchez early in his career.

Burns won titles in 3 weights, Broner in 4, Leo in 3, that does not means anything, actually there are a lot of champions without good quality.

Estrada is a two time champion of the world in different division beating the kings of their divisions, not paper champions, the kings... and in a master performances.


He avenged 2 of his 3 L's.


Postol? He is not better than Cuadras, Viloria or Sor.


Gamboa was a small guy to Crawford, you need to say all the story, you are bein biased.

Inoue best win is an old man like Narvaes, he showed power but the P4P is not about power, is about achievements, better wins, skills.

Early in his career... then he destroyed Russell Jr, excuses...

Boxing Prospect wrote: ↑27 Apr 2019, 14:13 Estrada has lost to his best opponent (Gonzalez), Viloria, Marquez and Segura were all on the slide when he beat them and he's only scored notable wins in 2 divisions. Tanaka has a stronger resume IMO (wins over 2 guys who had life in their career and would go on to win titles after he beat them, rather than beating them at the end of their careers). Nietes has been on top of the sport for 11 years, over 4 divisions, with a number of top wins.

Estrada went down 4 pounds to fight Gonzalez, 4 pounds, when he was 22 years old.

Gonzalez ducked the rematch and wanted 2 millions... and it was very competitive. Estrada took the risk like a warrior and it was competitive.

Viloria was on the slide?

He was the favorite in the bets, was wba and wbo champion of the world, TOP-10 P4P, and he won his best battle against Marquez in one of the best fights of that year.

You are saying a lot of lies.

Of fact, a corrupt judge gave a Draw to Viloria.


You are ignoring a lot of things.

Segura? Segura was the #1 challenger in the WBO.

He destroyed Marquez and Jonathan Gonzalez in Puerto Rico, with brutal K.O, the same Segura said that he was in a great shape of his career.


Tanaka has a stronger resume NO WAY.

Boxing Prospect wrote: ↑27 Apr 2019, 14:13 Also if we base it on JUST resume Pacquiao still belongs near, if not at, the top (weighing resume against recent competition)

I do think Estrada is a great fighter, but Gonzalez and Srisaket are his two stand out wins, he was lucky that the judges liked him against Alvarez (that was ultra competitive despite the crap the judges gave), Segura and Maruqez were horribly shot Viloria never showed much afterwards.

Lomachenko lost against his best rival (Salido, Russell Jr is a very good fighter but he did not do anything in this sport, he only K.O Jhonny Gonzalez).


Cuadras, Viloria and Sor > Gamboa, Postol, Burns.

Cuadras, Viloria and Sor > rivals of Usyk.

Cuadras, Viloria and Sor > Russell Jr, Marriaga, Linares.

Cudras, Viloria and Sor > Mikey Garcia (135 natural pounds fighter), Brook.

Cuadras, Viloria and Sor > Jacobs, Murray, DeGale (?).

Nice try...

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑27 Apr 2019, 14:20 Mate, I don’t know what you’ve injected yourself with today, but STOP!

A guy called Gassiev?

That’s like saying

A guy called Rungvisai?

Rungvisai has been a pro for ages and only became notable with the media 2 years ago.

The first win against Chocolatito was very controversial. Had that fight gone Gonzalez’s way, there would never have been a rematch.

But fair play to SSR, he KO’d the MUCH smaller Gonzalez in the rematch.

Rungvisai is way better than Gassiev...

Notable with the media? Who cares ? Media means anything, anything...


Much smaller Gonzalez?

Sor was 131 pounds in the ring, Gonzalez 129.

Gonzalez had a lot of problems to make 112 pounds when he was 29 years old.

Same height, weight, reach... stop with the excuses

Gonzalez was a weight bully in 105, 108 for years...

I'm slowly getting reminded of another poster...

Faaaaakïn ell. Sorry mate. You’re right. I agree with ur opinion and the points you have made. Thank you.

I know finally understand.

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑27 Apr 2019, 14:44 Faaaaakïn ell. Sorry mate. You’re right. I agree with ur opinion and the points you have made. Thank you.

I know finally understand.

0 arguments.


So, Viloria was out of shape and he was the king of the 112 pounds, wba and wbo champion of the world, and before the fight against Juan, he destroyed Marquez.

But yeah, you are right...

oogiebe wrote: ↑27 Apr 2019, 14:43 I'm slowly getting reminded of another poster...

0 arguments... i sayint the truth..

"Tanaka has a better resume than Estrada".




INCREDIBLE...

Susej_SOG wrote: ↑27 Apr 2019, 14:39 That does not matter, what matters is the quality of the rivals, I can go to fight with Juan Muñoz in his hometown, and?

Usyk fought with a lot of B class fighters, nothing great on his resume, of fact, Cuadras is better and has more skills than the rivals of Usyk.

Talking of a "lot of B class fighters" what do you make of:
Richie Mepranum, Rommel Asenjo, Felix Orucuta and Victor Mendez? You know, 2 of the men that Estrada actually made world title defenses again, in a division that was pretty damned stacked.

Gassiev, Breidis, Huck, Bellew and Hunter are certainly not just "B class" and were better, at the time, than Cuadras (the same Cuadras who has gone 1-1 since and was 1-1 before hand suggesting he's not at the peak of his power)...and against fought that Mepranum chap (what is it with Mexican's defending against him?...He's a dire challenger)...

Susej_SOG wrote: ↑27 Apr 2019, 14:39 Burns won titles in 3 weights, Broner in 4, Leo in 3, that does not means anything, actually there are a lot of champions without good quality.

Estrada is a two time champion of the world in different division beating the kings of their divisions, not paper champions, the kings... and in a master performances.

He avenged 2 of his 3 L's.

A two weight champion who holds 4 decent wins...that's not much better than Burns, certainly not as good as Crawford. He's unified 0 titles, and has again got world title defenses against the likes of Richie fornicating Mepranum and Rommel Asenjo! Wow consistent competition!

Susej_SOG wrote: ↑27 Apr 2019, 14:39 Postol? He is not better than Cuadras, Viloria or Sor.


Gamboa was a small guy to Crawford, you need to say all the story, you are bein biased.

Postol was an unbeaten champion who had impressed in his previous bout, and later went on to give Josh Taylor his toughest bout to date. Cuadras has looked shit since losing Estrada, and had looked poor in his previous bout. Viloria has gone 6-2 losing his ONLY 2 bouts of note, and was ALWAYS inconsistent.

Gamboa was small compared to Crawford, but then Crawford went up and beat the guy that beat Pacquiao and unified, he's now at his natural weight.

Susej_SOG wrote: ↑27 Apr 2019, 14:39 Inoue best win is an old man like Narvaes, he showed power but the P4P is not about power, is about achievements, better wins, skills.

Early in his career... then he destroyed Russell Jr, excuses...

WRONG! Inoue's best wins is against Taguchi (who would later unify titles at 108lbs). The MANNER of victory against Narvaez is better but the win over Taguchi is more impressive. And he certainly has better skills, as well as the power....but we both know you'll not agree with that, or his resume (Taguchi Hernandez, Narvaez, Kono, McDonnell and Payano) being better. You can stick with your bias here.

Susej_SOG wrote: ↑27 Apr 2019, 14:39 Estrada went down 4 pounds to fight Gonzalez, 4 pounds, when he was 22 years old.

Man I forgot he was just 22, god...that's..that's 1 year older than Tanaka was when he beating the feared Angel Acosta to become a 2 weight champion...in fact it was also a year older than Inoue was when he beat Narvaez. Oh and it was also Estrada's 28th bout...not like he was a novice kid you know, like a guy in their 8th bout or something...

Susej_SOG wrote: ↑27 Apr 2019, 14:39 Gonzalez ducked the rematch and wanted 2 millions... and it was very competitive. Estrada took the risk like a warrior and it was competitive.


Viloria was on the slide?

He was the favorite in the bets, was wba and wbo champion of the world, TOP-10 P4P, and he won his best battle against Marquez in one of the best fights of that year.

Gonalez wanted paid properly to fight. fornicate me what a pussy!

Viloria's form since suggests he was on the slide. He had unified the titles. Again he was VERY inconsistent, even when he was younger, he was 32 (old for a Flyweight) and has failed to score a win of note since. So yeah fair to say he was on the slide, certainly coming to the end of his prime.

Susej_SOG wrote: ↑27 Apr 2019, 14:39 You are saying a lot of lies.

Of fact, a corrupt judge gave a Draw to Viloria.

You are ignoring a lot of things.

Segura? Segura was the #1 challenger in the WBO.

He destroyed Marquez and Jonathan Gonzalez in Puerto Rico, with brutal K.O, the same Segura said that he was in a great shape of his career.

Tanaka has a stronger resume NO WAY.

Being #1 means fornicate all, anyone can be #1. A few examples-
Tetsuya Hisada is #1 with the WBA, so is Sarawut Thawornkham, Liborio Solis, Hiroshige Osawa,

If you just want to stick to the WBO Hisada is again #1, as is Ryan Garcia, Jack Caterall, Shefat Isufi and Imre Szello...wow look at that killers row of challengers!

A fighter saying they are in great shape doesn't mean a fighter IS in great shape.

Susej_SOG wrote: ↑27 Apr 2019, 14:39 Lomachenko lost against his best rival (Salido, Russell Jr is a very good fighter but he did not do anything in this sport, he only K.O Jhonny Gonzalez).

Cuadras, Viloria and Sor > Gamboa, Postol, Burns.

Cuadras, Viloria and Sor > rivals of Usyk.

Cuadras, Viloria and Sor > Russell Jr, Marriaga, Linares.

Cudras, Viloria and Sor > Mikey Garcia (135 natural pounds fighter), Brook.

Cuadras, Viloria and Sor > Jacobs, Murray, DeGale (?).

Nice try...

Taguchi, Acosta, Saludar, Kimura > Cuadras, Viloria and Sor (given that TWO of them have proven to be relevant after losing to Tanaka)

Taguchi, Hernandez, Narvaez, Kono, McDonnell, Narvaez > Cuadras, Viloria and Sor

Glowacki, Gassiev, Briedis, Hunter, Bellew, Huck, Mchunu > Cuadras, Viloria, Sor (6 is bigger than 3!)

No argument on the bottom 2 you're using...Spence and erm...who is the bottom one?

Boxing Prospect wrote: ↑27 Apr 2019, 16:08 Talking of a "lot of B class fighters" what do you make of:
Richie Mepranum, Rommel Asenjo, Felix Orucuta and Victor Mendez? You know, 2 of the men that Estrada actually made world title defenses again, in a division that was pretty damned stacked.

Gassiev, Breidis, Huck, Bellew and Hunter are certainly not just "B class" and were better, at the time, than Cuadras (the same Cuadras who has gone 1-1 since and was 1-1 before hand suggesting he's not at the peak of his power)...and against fought that Mepranum chap (what is it with Mexican's defending against him?...He's a dire challenger)...

The difference is that the b class fighters are the better wins of Usyk, and the better wins of Estrada are two P4P fighters and another A level fighter like Cuadras.

Just in your dreams Gassiev and all those guys were better than Cuadras that gave hell to Estrada, Roman and Sor Rungvisai, just in your dreams.

And Carlos was an very good amateur, he won the golden medal in panamerican games schooling Matrix Marrero.

Boxing Prospect wrote: ↑27 Apr 2019, 16:08 A two weight champion who holds 4 decent wins...that's not much better than Burns, certainly not as good as Crawford. He's unified 0 titles, and has again got world title defenses against the likes of Richie effing Mepranum and Rommel Asenjo! Wow consistent competition!

Postol was an unbeaten champion who had impressed in his previous bout, and later went on to give Josh Taylor his toughest bout to date. Cuadras has looked poo since losing Estrada, and had looked poor in his previous bout. Viloria has gone 6-2 losing his ONLY 2 bouts of note, and was ALWAYS inconsistent.

Gamboa was small compared to Crawford, but then Crawford went up and beat the guy that beat Pacquiao and unified, he's now at his natural weight.

He did not need that.

Viloria was the king of his division.

Sor was the king of his division


He wanted the unification against Roman Gonzalez and he ducked Juan with the excuse of the 2 millions.

Former WBC, WBO AND WBA. That's Estrada


Not much better than Burns? Viloria, Sor, Cuadras, Segura?

Lol, the same Burns that got a gift against B class fighter Beltran that destroyed his jaw...

Postol is not better than Cuadras, and no way in hell he is better than Sor or Viloria.

Viloria was an olympian, that schooled Donaire in amateur and was the king of the 112, he lost against Estrada and Roman that are super-elite fighters. No shame on that.

Viloria is better than Gassiev, and those fighters, better than Burns, easy.

I don't care what you said, the truth is that Gamboa is his best win and it was a small fighter.

Boxing Prospect wrote: ↑27 Apr 2019, 16:08 WRONG! Inoue's best wins is against Taguchi (who would later unify titles at 108lbs). The MANNER of victory against Narvaez is better but the win over Taguchi is more impressive. And he certainly has better skills, as well as the power....but we both know you'll not agree with that, or his resume (Taguchi Hernandez, Narvaez, Kono, McDonnell and Payano) being better. You can stick with your bias here.

Taguchi, lol.

What did Taguchi in this sport?

Hell, it does not matter how you look, it matter how you look against the rival opposition, and nope, Inoue is good, Estrada too, but Estrada showed his skills against super-elite opposition, Inoue against B class fighters.

Inoue resume better than Estrada.

Boxing Prospect wrote: ↑27 Apr 2019, 16:08 Man I forgot he was just 22, god...that's..that's 1 year older than Tanaka was when he beating the feared Angel Acosta to become a 2 weight champion...in fact it was also a year older than Inoue was when he beat Narvaez. Oh and it was also Estrada's 28th bout...not like he was a novice kid you know, like a guy in their 8th bout or something...


Gonalez wanted paid properly to fight. eff me what a pussy!

The feared who? Acosta was a good win but nothing great and no way better than Viloria, or Cuadras, those guys are not proven fighters.

It's a lot of difference in fight with a prime Roman Gonzalez WENT DOWN 4 POUNDS that what you are saying...


Paid properly? Man, this is ridiculous.

2 million it was impossible .

Sor never did anything like that, it was a pussy movement.

Of fact, Roman ducked Estrada and then he fought against old-men like Viloria or Sosa for 250 k dollars.

Man, your argument are pretty weak

Boxing Prospect wrote: ↑27 Apr 2019, 16:08
Viloria's form since suggests he was on the slide. He had unified the titles. Again he was VERY inconsistent, even when he was younger, he was 32 (old for a Flyweight) and has failed to score a win of note since. So yeah fair to say he was on the slide, certainly coming to the end of his prime.



Being #1 means eff all, anyone can be #1. A few examples-
Tetsuya Hisada is #1 with the WBA, so is Sarawut Thawornkham, Liborio Solis, Hiroshige Osawa,

If you just want to stick to the WBO Hisada is again #1, as is Ryan Garcia, Jack Caterall, Shefat Isufi and Imre Szello...wow look at that killers row of challengers!

A fighter saying they are in great shape doesn't mean a fighter IS in great shape.

Nope, he was in his prime, that's the reasin why he was in P4P list, was the king of the weight and after the fight against Juan he destroyed brutally Segura and Marquez.

He was the favorite in the bets, and 32 years old are not too much.

Huh?

Being #1 is when you beat the man of the division.

Viloria and Sor were the #1, Estrada too, in two weight class.

Look the photos, he looked soft in the first fight, in this fight he looked in a tremendous shape.

Boxing Prospect wrote: ↑27 Apr 2019, 16:08

Taguchi, Acosta, Saludar > Cuadras, Viloria and Sor (given that TWO of them have proven to be relevant after losing to Tanaka)

Taguchi, Hernandez, Narvaez, Kono, McDonnell, Narvaez > Cuadras, Viloria and Sor

Glowacki, Gassiev, Briedis, Hunter, Bellew, Huck, Mchunu > Cuadras, Viloria, Sor (6 is bigger than 3!)

No argument on the bottom 2 you're using...Spence and erm...who is the bottom one?

This is incredible....

Viloria, Sor and Cuadras, two P4P fighters and an A elite fighter, all in prime.

Is better than those list.

Mchunchu, Kono, Hernandez, Taguchi, LOL.




What's the best that Breidis this in this sport?


Estrada beat 7 former champions of the world: Viloria, Sor, Cuadras, Segura, Melindo, Marquez, Sanchez Jr.

And gave hell Chocolatito 4 pounds below his weight.


And this guy is writing this...

Boxing Prospect wrote: ↑27 Apr 2019, 16:08
Taguchi, Acosta, Saludar, Kimura > Cuadras, Viloria and Sor (given that TWO of them have proven to be relevant after losing to Tanaka)

Taguchi, Hernandez, Narvaez, Kono, McDonnell, Narvaez > Cuadras, Viloria and Sor

Glowacki, Gassiev, Briedis, Hunter, Bellew, Huck, Mchunu > Cuadras, Viloria, Sor (6 is bigger than 3!)

No argument on the bottom 2 you're using...Spence and erm...who is the bottom one?

Saludar, a guy that lost in 2017 against Toto Landeros (8-4).

Acosta? His better win is a oldman like Hernandez (35-8).

Kimura? LOL


Man, this is funny...

Kono? LOL McDonnell ! Narvaez with 50 years old that Lost 12 rounds against Donaire and Tete, Tete, that almost was K.O'd by Sanchez Jr (former rival of Estrada).


Those europeans guys that did not do anything special on boxing....

Breidis? Mchunchu? Glowa , who?

Man, this is funny... its INCREDIBLE...

Estrada is the greatest of all time!

Fightnight Scores wrote: ↑27 Apr 2019, 17:15 Estrada is the greatest of all time!

Those are Tanaka and Shiro.

They have better resume than Estrada.

And Super Usyk, this guy destroyed Breidis, do you know who is Breidis?

This guy was a monster from Europe.

Lol