Sugar Ray vs Marvelous Marvin in '82: What if...?

[elmersalsa]

By 1982, Marvelous was hungry for money and recognition that he thought he always deserved. The great Thomas Hearns pulled out for a fight with him in May 1982 because an injured finger. Marvelous was very upset about that. Then, when Sugar Ray ridiculed him in the retirement gala in November of that same year by saying "That a fight with Hagler (that man right there), could bring millions and millions of dollars. It could be one of the greatest fights in history. But, unfortunately, it will never happen, Good night!". Marvelous felt embarrassed and empty. Now, he doesn't have a multi million dollar payday neither with Hearns nor Leonard. He had to wait until the great Roberto Duran came back to the top in 1983 for a multi million dollar fight.

[gilgamesh]

Hagler would've been too much for Ray in 1982. He would've either won a UD or stopped him late. I'm thinking UD.

[elmersalsa]

Hagler would've been too much for Ray in 1982. He would've either won a UD or stopped him late. I'm thinking UD.

I think he would have stopped Sugar Ray. Marvelous was hungrier and in his complete prime. He was a total monster before 1986.

[bigjack]

He won because he was better. When they fought in 1987, Hagler was closer to his best than Leonard was to his best. And Leonard still won.
In 1982, Hagler would have been better, but Leonard would have been a lot better. Leonard wins a decision more easily than in 1987. Hagler whines that he got robbed.

x2

[Ambling Alp II]

Well bigjack seems to be a voice of reason.

People think Leonard would be the same in 1982 as he was in 1987. He was a lot faster, and could fight at a faster pace in 1982 than he did after the long layoff.

Hagler was not the invincible force that people think he was. Obviously a great fighter. However, take a look at his fights against a fading Benny Briscoe, Geraldo, Duran, the 1st Antuofermo fight. He routinely took rounds off in fights.

Besides, if elmer and homicide both think the same way, by law it must be wrong.

[oogiebe]

Well bigjack seems to be a voice of reason.

People think Leonard would be the same in 1982 as he was in 1987. He was a lot faster, and could fight at a faster pace in 1982 than he did after the long layoff.

Hagler was not the invincible force that people think he was. Obviously a great fighter. However, take a look at his fights against a fading Benny Briscoe, Geraldo, Duran, the 1st Antuofermo fight. He routinely took rounds off in fights.

Besides, if elmer and homicide both think the same way, by law it must be wrong.

Why, because he agrees with you? Not sure I like the ridiculing tone here. You're a good poster, but I find you without respect for other views.

[HomicideHenry]

Faster doesn't equate with being better automatically.

Leonard, at his fastest, still lost to Duran. He could be out fought.

[bigjack]

Well bigjack seems to be a voice of reason.

People think Leonard would be the same in 1982 as he was in 1987. He was a lot faster, and could fight at a faster pace in 1982 than he did after the long layoff.

Hagler was not the invincible force that people think he was. Obviously a great fighter. However, take a look at his fights against a fading Benny Briscoe, Geraldo, Duran, the 1st Antuofermo fight. He routinely took rounds off in fights.

Besides, if elmer and homicide both think the same way, by law it must be wrong.

That's just my view,i'll listen to arguments saying different and would probably agree with most things.I know the fight was very subjective but i was and always have been a big Leonard fan so would favour his style anyway.

[Duran1970]

I've seen the fight several times and I stand by that.

It's a fact .. Leonard himself was quoted as such .. telling his team to yell out " 30 seconds" so he could try and steal the round..you can hear it throughout the fight... surely a Leonard fan would know this already.

[oogiebe]

It's a fact .. Leonard himself was quoted as such .. telling his team to yell out " 30 seconds" so he could try and steal the round..you can hear it throughout the fight... surely a Leonard fan would know this already.

[jamamb]

Why, because he agrees with you? Not sure I like the ridiculing tone here. You're a good poster, but I find you without respect for other views.

lol ya, it happens in this section a lot. just throw in tuan jim. omg you argue for a modern boxer,.....your an idiot who knows nothing!! lol

most condescending part of the forum by far

tbf, i enjoy it for some reason lol

[Duran1970]

Hagler in 82 would stop Leonard. The hearns and mugabi fights were wars and took something from Marvin.

Roldan wasn't easy on em either

[oogiebe]

lol ya, it happens in this section a lot. just throw in tuan jim. omg you argue for a modern boxer,.....your an idiot who knows nothing!! lol

most condescending part of the forum by far

tbf, i enjoy it for some reason lol

I can see why! IT's hysterical in its frequency and predictability. Also the same tired arguments over and over again with the same tired old posters who seem to feel they own this particular forum. They rarely venture outside of history, thank God!

[Ambling Alp II]

The last 30 seconds count just as much as the first two minutes and 30 seconds.. Where were all the big shots that Hagler was landing? He blew the first rounds by doing nothing but standing around trying to look mean. He sure didn't win 7 of the last 8 rounds.

[Nile4000]

Hag let Leonard play with his mind. Should've have pulled some of his own Jedi tricks on Ray.

[Syntax Error]

Leonard also got a couple of advantages. Hagler agreed for 12 rounds instead of (then) usual 15, for larger ring and bigger gloves. I believe it made a difference as the fight was close.

Leonard V Hagler was for the WBC title and they had stopped 15 round fights by 1987.

Only the IBF was still sanctioning 15'round fights then.

[Syntax Error]

Hag let Leonard play with his mind. Should've have pulled some of his own Jedi tricks on Ray.

Leonard turned Hagler inside out mentally.

Hagler was obsessed with the payday and Leonard knew it, hence why he and his team let Hagler have slightly more money than him, to make Marvin feel like he was the man, whereas Leonard negotiated the really important things in his favour.

[gregor]

Leonard V Hagler was for the WBC title and they had stopped 15 round fights by 1987.
Only the IBF was still sanctioning 15'round fights then.

And as you know Hagler had IBF belt as well, but it did not sanction that fight (I guess for that reason).

So I think it was still Leonard behind having 12 rounds. What you said would be just how he did it (by convincing Hagler to fight only for WBC).

[Nile4000]

Leonard turned Hagler inside out mentally.

Hagler was obsessed with the payday and Leonard knew it, hence why he and his team let Hagler have slightly more money than him, to make Marvin feel like he was the man, whereas Leonard negotiated the really important things in his favour.

Marvin fell hook, line and sinker.

[Brian Seneca]

Hagler in 82 would stop Leonard. The hearns and mugabi fights were wars and took something from Marvin.

This. Plus Ray would have to fight 15 with a PRIME Hager. Probably wouldn’t be able to manipulate the fight as much as in 87. Post Hearns I Leonard is a creation. Created by himself. 1977-1982 he was great and deserves all the accolades. After that on paper it looks fantastic. I, like most of you lived through it and it was a joke. Two titles for one fight? He is a two division champion in my eyes. Didn’t beat Hagler, definitely lost the Hearns rematch. Got his ass handed to him when he fought a prime fighter in Norris and embarrassed himself getting ko’d By feather fisted Camacho.

[Brian Seneca]

I am sorry if I offend anybody. But I can’t see anyway Leonard wins in 82. I don’t think he one in 87. To say that Marvin was closer to his prime isn’t accurate. He just went through two wars with Hearns and Mugabi. As a matter of fact that’s when Leonard decided to challenge Marvin. He said he saw something. Yeah Marvin was not the fighter he was in 82. Let’s also not forget Hagler’s age is something of a mystery. He was reportedly 2 or 3 years older than his listed age. Also how many fights did he have BEFORE Antufermo? Ray knew when the time was ripe and still didn’t win convincingly unless your a Leonard fan. I think Hagler ko’s him within 11.

[Controversial]

I believe that Sugar Ray would have received a hefty payday of about between $15 to $20 million dollars for this fight. Marvelous would have gotten like $8 to $10 million. How much money is that in today's dollars? An estimation, please?

$20 million in 1982 would be worth $52 million today

[keithmoonhangover]

He won because he was better. When they fought in 1987, Hagler was closer to his best than Leonard was to his best. And Leonard still won.
In 1982, Hagler would have been better, but Leonard would have been a lot better. Leonard wins a decision more easily than in 1987. Hagler whines that he got robbed.

I agree with all of that.

[Controversial]

Hagler was on the slide in 1987, at that stage he had 66 fights, was almost 33 and had become fairly inactive in his previous years, two fights in 1984, one in 1985 and one in 1986 and then a 13 month gap before fighting Leonard. In 1982 Hagler was more of a force which would have given him the edge.

[elmersalsa]

Hagler was on the slide in 1987, at that stage he had 66 fights, was almost 33 and had become fairly inactive in his previous years, two fights in 1984, one in 1985 and one in 1986 and then a 13 month gap before fighting Leonard. In 1982 Hagler was more of a force which would have given him the edge.

Marvelous was certainly more active by 1982. He was hungry for fame and recognition. He desperately changed his name from Marvin to Marvelous to gain more notoriety.