BoxRec

Posted: **14 May 2019, 11:44**

A fighter being unbeaten doesn't tell us much about how good they are, the level of competition they have beaten is a much better barometer. As far as fighting weaker competition, I suppose he could have found even weaker opponents but I don't know if he would have been able to convince the public to pay to watch him fight opponents that were much worse. As it is, I'm amazed the public paid to watch many of his fights given how many were mismatches against badly overmatched opponents.

As for who he should have fought instead. I think it's a pretty long list. I'd say
Tim Witherspoon
Tony Tucker
Donovan Ruddock
Lennox Lewis
Oliver McCall
Mike Tyson
Henry Akinwande
Michael Moorer
Frank Bruno

would have been far better choices.

Posted: **14 May 2019, 13:09**

Probably the hardest fighter to rate that I can think of. Really had everything you need to be a dominant fighter and, on occasion, he showed it with spectacular results.

But, a couple of more fights against the top guys would have told us so much more.

Interesting that he weighed 252 for the first Golota fight which was a career high (until his comeback in 2004 which shouldn't really count). But, then he came in 17 pounds lighter (235) for the rematch, but he didn't look better in the fight at all. I wonder what the story was there? Perhaps some kind of diuretic that dropped the weight but left him weakened (ala Ali vs Holmes).

Not trying to make any excuses, I don't really have much feeling on Bowe either way, except what I wrote above, I wish I had gotten to see more of him at or near his best.

Posted: **14 May 2019, 15:52**

I agree he is hard to rate. What I have been saying is that we have to rate him on the fights that he had, not the fights he didn't have. He did fight the best fighter of his era.
It does take two to tangle. Moorer wanted no part of him. Tyson was in prison almost the entire time of Bowe's prime. Akinwande? come on.

Posted: **14 May 2019, 16:32**

Most would argue Lewis was the best of his era. Bowe's resume as it is has highs (the Holyfield wins) as well as dramatic lows (the Golota beatings). We would have a much better assessment of him had he fought more good opponents.

The funny things is Akinwande might have had actually had a shot at beating Bowe. He's probably at least as good as Golota and more durable. He also seems to have been less inclined to throw away winnable fights via quitting or DQs.

Posted: **14 May 2019, 17:01**

Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑14 May 2019, 16:32 Most would argue Lewis was the best of his era. Bowe's resume as it is has highs (the Holyfield wins) as well as dramatic lows (the Golota beatings). We would have a much better assessment of him had he fought more good opponents.

The funny things is Akinwande might have had actually had a shot at beating Bowe. He's probably at least as good as Golota and more durable.

How do you envision an incessant grabber like Akinwande beating Riddick Bowe? Against Lennox Lewis he could hold on to survive, because Lennox by his own admission had no inside game. But against Bowe? Bowe was the most devastating inside fighter the heavyweight division has ever seen! I could not imagine a more perfect fantasy opponent for Bowe to look lethal, other than John Ruiz. When Akinwande grabs Bowe, it's going to be game over.

Also, come on! Akinwande crapped his pants both times he was challenged, against Lewis and McCall. We know he had no heart, and we know Bowe had tons of heart.

Posted: **14 May 2019, 17:04**

jas80s wrote: ↑14 May 2019, 13:09 Probably the hardest fighter to rate that I can think of. Really had everything you need to be a dominant fighter and, on occasion, he showed it with spectacular results.

But, a couple of more fights against the top guys would have told us so much more.

Interesting that he weighed 252 for the first Golota fight which was a career high (until his comeback in 2004 which shouldn't really count). But, then he came in 17 pounds lighter (235) for the rematch, but he didn't look better in the fight at all. I wonder what the story was there? Perhaps some kind of diuretic that dropped the weight but left him weakened (ala Ali vs Holmes).

Not trying to make any excuses, I don't really have much feeling on Bowe either way, except what I wrote above, I wish I had gotten to see more of him at or near his best.

Eddie Futch dumped him after Golota I, and so Bowe trained himself for Golota II, a terrible mistake. He was fixated with getting to 235 and did so weeks before the fight! He was totally overtrained and as a result weak and sluggish. He did everything wrong in those two fights.

Posted: **14 May 2019, 17:28**

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑14 May 2019, 15:52 I agree he is hard to rate. What I have been saying is that we have to rate him on the fights that he had, not the fights he didn't have. He did fight the best fighter of his era.
It does take two to tangle. Moorer wanted no part of him. Tyson was in prison almost the entire time of Bowe's prime. Akinwande? come on.

Lmao at akinwande.

Posted: **14 May 2019, 17:37**

Yet all Bowe's amazing heart and great inside game didn't help him at all against a guy who couldn't make it out of the first round against Lewis. Instead he absorbed two beatings, the second of which ended his career as a top-level fighter.

All the guys I mentioned who Bowe failed to fight were a big improvement on the Coetzer's and Ferguson's that Bowe wasted his time fighting.

Posted: **14 May 2019, 18:22**

In 20 years on Boxrec I've never heard anyone lament that a boxer didn't fight Henry Akinwande. You must be on a wind up.

Posted: **14 May 2019, 18:26**

He was only one of many I mentioned. What about Lewis? Tyson? Witherspoon? Tucker? People have been putting forth numerous excuses as to why Bowe couldn't face the top guys of the era bar Holyfield but by and large they simply don't add up.

Lewis was somehow able to make the fights materialize, why couldn't Bowe do the same?

And how does Lewis losing in September 1994 prevent Bowe from fighting him in 1993, 1995, or 1996.
Tyson was released from prison in March 1995. The best time to make that fight would have been late 1995 or 1996. He could have fought Tyson after the third Holyfield fight rather than take the Golota fights.

Posted: **14 May 2019, 18:55**

overhand_right wrote: ↑14 May 2019, 18:22 In 20 years on Boxrec I've never heard anyone lament that a boxer didn't fight Henry Akinwande. You must be on a wind up.

First for me, but the poster did mention several fighters.

Posted: **14 May 2019, 18:57**

Serious question, Cojimar, when did you start following boxing? The varying politics of HBO, Showtime and Don King made all the fights you mentioned impossible in the time frame you gave. If you had been following boxing at the time you wouldn't need to ask why. I would wager most people who use this forum understand why those fights didn't happen.

Posted: **14 May 2019, 19:17**

overhand_right wrote: ↑14 May 2019, 17:04 Eddie Futch dumped him after Golota I, and so Bowe trained himself for Golota II, a terrible mistake. He was fixated with getting to 235 and did so weeks before the fight! He was totally overtrained and as a result weak and sluggish. He did everything wrong in those two fights.

Interesting...thanks for the heads up.

Ya, I seem to recall a lot of anticipation that Bowe would come back with a vengeance given the way the first fight went coupled with the fact that he appeared to be back to an ideal fight weight. But, in the fight itself, just as you said, weak and sluggish.

Posted: **14 May 2019, 19:21**

oogiebe wrote: ↑14 May 2019, 18:55 First for me, but the poster did mention several fighters.

Lewis/Bowe has been done to death. Tyson, Tucker, McCall and Akinwande were Don King fighters. Don King wouldn't put his fighters up against Bowe. Who else did he mention? Witherspoon? Who fought Witherspoon? Lewis? No. Holyfield? No. Tyson? No. Morrison? No. Foreman? No. Mercer? Not till they were both old men, in a desperado crossroads fight. The only guy who was going to fight Witherspoon was Moorer, but Witherspoon blew it by losing to Bigfoot Martin (who Bowe beat up). Witherspoon had an awful reputation in the 90s, because he was always out of shape and putting in abysmal performances vs Bigfoot, Pritchard, Tony Willis etc.

Posted: **14 May 2019, 20:00**

If Bowe for whatever reason couldn't find a way to fight basically all the top guys of his era aside from Holyfield then what are we to make of his legacy?

How can you justify a high ranking for him with such an incredibly thin resume? The Holyfield wins are very nice but the Golota fights are extremely bad and to some degree offset the impressive performances against Holyfield especially given that Bowe failed to put things right in the rematch.

I guess it comes down to how you balance the Holyfield and Golota fights given that's basically all we have to work with against elite opposition.

Posted: **14 May 2019, 20:02**

Again if boxing politics were such an enormous hurdle to making big fights why did Lennox Lewis manage to overcome them again and again?

If Don King was a problem than Bowe should have signed with King.

Posted: **14 May 2019, 20:08**

overhand_right wrote: ↑14 May 2019, 18:22 In 20 years on Boxrec I've never heard anyone lament that a boxer didn't fight Henry Akinwande. You must be on a wind up.

He's a troll.

Posted: **14 May 2019, 20:09**

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑14 May 2019, 20:08 He's a troll.

You are a troll

Why don't you come up with actual arguments? Like say, all the guys Bowe beat who were better than Akinwande? I'll give you Holyfield of course but beyond that it's iffy. It just goes to demonstrate how thin Bowe's resume is when you get past Holyfield.

Posted: **14 May 2019, 20:14**

Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑14 May 2019, 20:09 You are a troll

Why don't you come up with actual arguments? Like say, all the guys Bowe beat who were better than Akinwande? I'll give you Holyfield of course but beyond that it's iffy.

I don't converse with trolls, it ruins threads. Once in a blue moon I respond to you by accident because, thankfully, you're not an overly active troll. I've done my board bickering for pages on end. My apologies if you're not trolling. In that case you're just too far out of your depth for me to bother with. Carry on.

Posted: **14 May 2019, 20:16**

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑14 May 2019, 20:14 I don't converse with trolls, it ruins threads. Once in a blue moon I respond to you by accident because, thankfully, you're not an overly active troll. I've done my board bickering for pages on end. My apologies if you're not trolling. In that case you're just too far out of your depth for me to bother with. Carry on.

Bowe having a thin resume is just objective fact I'm afraid, I don't see how pointing this out can be trolling.

Posted: **14 May 2019, 20:18**

jas80s wrote: ↑14 May 2019, 13:09 Probably the hardest fighter to rate that I can think of. Really had everything you need to be a dominant fighter and, on occasion, he showed it with spectacular results.

But, a couple of more fights against the top guys would have told us so much more.

Interesting that he weighed 252 for the first Golota fight which was a career high (until his comeback in 2004 which shouldn't really count). But, then he came in 17 pounds lighter (235) for the rematch, but he didn't look better in the fight at all. I wonder what the story was there? Perhaps some kind of diuretic that dropped the weight but left him weakened (ala Ali vs Holmes).

Not trying to make any excuses, I don't really have much feeling on Bowe either way, except what I wrote above, I wish I had gotten to see more of him at or near his best.

I think holy field ruined bowe. They were grueling fights. Some can take more than others. Those guys fought at a more violent pace than fights like miurra/Vargas that are considered great now. Even then, the golata fights neither hurt nor enhanced his resume. Lol, people that act like losing on cuts and quitting over a shoulder injury are victories yet someone going Ric flair on your balls is OK.

Posted: **14 May 2019, 20:20**

I don't even see how people got so fixated on Akinwande in the first place he's just one of many fighters who Bowe failed to fight who was better than virtually anyone he actually did fight. He also, in my opinion is more talented than Golota. This doesn't make him the most dangerous guy Bowe didn't fight, that would be Lewis.

Posted: **14 May 2019, 20:22**

At least this is an honest attempt to address the Golota fights rather than sweeping them under the rug. But he seemed to recuperate just fine from the first two fights which were considerably more gruelling than the third one. He had also just knocked out Holyfield in his prior fight, the timing seems a bit too convenient.

Posted: **15 May 2019, 00:39**

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑14 May 2019, 20:18 I think holy field ruined bowe. They were grueling fights. Some can take more than others. Those guys fought at a more violent pace than fights like miurra/Vargas that are considered great now. Even then, the golata fights neither hurt nor enhanced his resume. Lol, people that act like losing on cuts and quitting over a shoulder injury are victories yet someone going Ric flair on your balls is OK.

I think with hindsight, it is pretty clear that is what happened, though it's funny how it didn't seem like it at the time. But, Evander went to war with you, I suspect he shortened a few careers with his pace and ferocity in there.

I think the thing about Bowe is, he was a mercurial personality to begin with. I mean, this is a guy who joined the marine corp after becoming a hugely successful fighter, who in their right mind does that?? Obviously, it didn't work out, not that you needed to be clairvoyant to see that coming...

I think he was destined to have a short prime, Holyfield in his life or not.

Posted: **15 May 2019, 03:30**

Cojimar 1946 wrote: ↑14 May 2019, 20:02 Again if boxing politics were such an enormous hurdle to making big fights why did Lennox Lewis manage to overcome them again and again?

If Don King was a problem than Bowe should have signed with King.

Did Lewis overcome them again and again? After McCall knocked him out, it took him years to get a title shot again.

It took till he was 34 and Holyfield 37 to unify the belts! Bowe had already eaten himself out of boxing by then but his fights with Holyfield looked hugely impressive after Lewis's two dreary contests.

Lewis didn't fight Tyson till Tyson was 36! Tyson had been avoiding the best fighters since Holyfield crushed him twice. When Holyfield KOd Tyson in 96, Bowe's KO of Holyfield a year earlier looked mightily impressive. It still does.

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