Aaron Pryor, what if?

[TheGoods]

I think Pryor is the best at 140 in history. During his prime - and before the crack cocaine too hold - he was an absolute monster. I’ll go to my grave believing Leonard wanted no part of him.

[Ambling Alp II]

He wouldn't even fight Saoul Mamby or Leroy Haley. Doubt Leonard was the least bit worried about him.

[Nile4000]

He wouldn't even fight Saoul Mamby or Leroy Haley. Doubt Leonard was the least bit worried about him.

This. And Curry and McCrory may have hurt him worse.

[Duran1970]

I think Pryor is the best at 140 in history. During his prime - and before the crack cocaine too hold - he was an absolute monster. I’ll go to my grave believing Leonard wanted no part of him.

X2

[Ambling Alp II]

Any evidence besides you don't like him?
Always thought it was crazy that guys like Ray Robinson, Ali, and Leonard who went out of their way to fight the best are the one's who get criticized for not fighting someone.

[elmersalsa]

I think Pryor is the best at 140 in history. During his prime - and before the crack cocaine too hold - he was an absolute monster. I’ll go to my grave believing Leonard wanted no part of him.

The people from his hometown of Cincinnati, OH believed that, too. Are you from Cincinnati?

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

- Hmmm, what if there were no difference between a Dominican and a Haitian and this was an Olympic Girl's Curling forum, who could ever ask such a thing?

For the untutored, Aaron's title record is 11-0, 9 KO with 3 KOs of legends Cervantes and Arguello.

To answer the riffraff always populating our world, the Duran offer in 81 was AFTER he was defrocked of greatness after he dismissed with a wave of his hand Leonard, calling him a clown that was transmongrified by the onerous Cosell into a NO MAS disgrace. Why would Aaron want to risk giving up his new title to fight Duran in a nontitle fight two weight divisions up for peanuts when he was clearly after a $million fight with Leonard, the whole reason he turned down that Dec 80 offer.

Aaron eventually cracked that million buck barrior with two fights against Arguello that netted him over 3 mil, but all that money served him ill as the sychophantic back slappers and like that surround heroic boxer tempted him with more than wine, women and song.

Hence the answer for our brain trauma expert who would seemingly claim expertise in "character flaws" a fair distance from the subject: Like most ghetto youths, Aaron grew up in that black mostly segregated culture that is problematic even today as far as black on black violence and death and drug addiction. The list of cocaine and crack addicts in legal and moral peril, and risk of death is a long one, and in fact all across the US, the country today is by far the most drug addled culture in the world, both legal and script. This is what a corrupt political and pharma culture breeds.

The kid did great for a long time through the Olympic program and lucky to live as long as he did, a great and tragic downfall like any great Greek Hero.

The Goods can go to his grave in peace. Aaron was all that and more and he'll be setting the score with Leonard and Duran in Valhalla soon enough...errr...at least Duran. Leonard in the gal division for sure.

[jaclem3]

i retired from writing about pryor years ago, and i,m pleased that buzzy has kept the information flowing. and it is information, not opinion.....

[Brian Seneca]

I can’t see how anyone can call Pryor overrated. Yes he was reckless at times and dropped and hurt by Cervantes, Johnson and Kameda. But he WON all of those fights by knockout. Not a Leonard fan but I respect him. Some points: I still feel the Hearns fight was stopped prematurely. Let the champion go out on his shield. The Hagler fight was B.S. He was awarded two belts for Donny Lalonde. Hearns WON the second fight. Pryor would give him trouble. The Pryor of 80-82. He threw punches from ridiculous angles. Could Leonard catch him sure, but has Ray thrown a punch as hard as Arguello did in the 13th round? I know Alex was a smaller man but that punch was picture perfect. I don’t think Ray could effectively flurry to gain points ala Hagler. Aaron was too elusive, Don’t know if he stops Ray, he had a great chin. And we all know if it goes to the scorecards Leonard wins. Would have been great to see though. Tommy destroys him I think. Especially at welterweight.

[BoxBuzz]

Not all the locals were enthralled.....I was a neigbor, thought he was good.....but in his case I thought he was expertly managed, caught the right fighters at the right times, avoided everyone he needed to avoid, and rode a streak very similar to the character "Chauncey" in the movie "Being There".


He was good......and that "good" was parlayed to "beyond great" in some folks minds, by the power of luck, good management and sweet happenstance.

[Ambling Alp II]

Buzz obviously is not high on Pryor.
It's funny the way people are with someone from their hometown.
They either love em or hate him. Onetimeonly does the same thing with Leonard. He can't stand him.

I have always rated Pryor higher than buzz but lower than some other people. A lot depends on how much credit you give him for the Arguello fight. After that, there is a steep dropoff on the quality of his wins.

He was not as good as Leonard. Leonard has wins wins over Benitez, Duran, Hearns and Hagler. Pryor never proved himself like that. Head to head, it's hard imagine Leonard having any trouble hitting him at all. This is just a question if Pryor lasts the distance.

[Onetimeonly]

I'm from Baltimore, ray was closer to DC. Funny thing about the duck claims is Leonard would have caught shit for fighting Aaron. He was retired and commentating on the fight that made Pryor big enough for any talk of a fight like that amongst the general public. Same with the McCallum bullshit. Leonard, hearns, hagler and Duran were anything but duckers. You literally can't fight everyone! I have no doubt Leonard would stop Pryor, might be quite early.

[elmersalsa]

Like I said before, Aaron Pryor, was a great fighter in his own right, but in his best day, I can't see him beating these guys at Welterweight:
Ray Leonard
Roberto Duran
Thomas Hearns
Wilfred Benitez
Donald Curry
Pipino Cuevas
Carlos Palomino
Milton McCrory
Felix "Tito" Trinidad
Emile Griffith
Luis Manuel Rodriguez
Kid Gavilan.
Carmen Basilio

[Brian Seneca]

Buzz obviously is not high on Pryor.
It's funny the way people are with someone from their hometown.
They either love em or hate him. Onetimeonly does the same thing with Leonard. He can't stand him.

I have always rated Pryor higher than buzz but lower than some other people. A lot depends on how much credit you give him for the Arguello fight. After that, there is a steep dropoff on the quality of his wins.

He was not as good as Leonard. Leonard has wins wins over Benitez, Duran, Hearns and Hagler. Pryor never proved himself like that. Head to head, it's hard imagine Leonard having any trouble hitting him at all. This is just a question if Pryor lasts the distance.

Leonard’s only true win win was Benitez and even that should have been a decision win. The stoppage was b.s. The Hearns fight was close and yes Ray probably stops Tommy but once again quick stoppage. Duran quit and you can say ever you want here. But Hagler fight is b.s. as well. Ray was great but a very “structured” career. Three of his five belts are suspect for me

[Brian Seneca]

Who does he beat at lightweight? Never given that opportunity. Watt, O’Grady, he beat Arguello. Mancini? Could possibly have been undisputed lightweight champion after Duran.

[Duran1970]

Leonard’s only true win win was Benitez and even that should have been a decision win. The stoppage was b.s. The Hearns fight was close and yes Ray probably stops Tommy but once again quick stoppage. Duran quit and you can say ever you want here. But Hagler fight is b.s. as well. Ray was great but a very “structured” career. Three of his five belts are suspect for me

I agree..

[oogiebe]

Leonard’s only true win win was Benitez and even that should have been a decision win. The stoppage was b.s. The Hearns fight was close and yes Ray probably stops Tommy but once again quick stoppage. Duran quit and you can say ever you want here. But Hagler fight is b.s. as well. Ray was great but a very “structured” career. Three of his five belts are suspect for me

You can't be serious!

[Brian Seneca]

You can't be serious!

I think Ray was great. But some of his big fights were questionable. I am not saying he doesn’t stop Tommy, but even Dunphy announcing the fight says the stoppage was bad. Hagler fight I cannot agree with. Plus he always waited until the fighters were shot or close to shot. Why wouldn’t he give Hearns an immediate rematch? Because Tommy “failed to show humility”. He got Duran right away. What if Duran made him wait? And how can you win TWO divisional titles in ONE fight? I admit I didn’t like Ray while he was fighting. But I truly respect him now in hindsight. Too many gifts when Marvin and Tommy came up the hard way. I think he would have competed in any era just not as successful as say Duran or Hagler would have.

[oogiebe]

I think Ray was great. But some of his big fights were questionable. I am not saying he doesn’t stop Tommy, but even Dunphy announcing the fight says the stoppage was bad. Hagler fight I cannot agree with. Plus he always waited until the fighters were shot or close to shot. Why wouldn’t he give Hearns an immediate rematch? Because Tommy “failed to show humility”. He got Duran right away. What if Duran made him wait? And how can you win TWO divisional titles in ONE fight? I admit I didn’t like Ray while he was fighting. But I truly respect him now in hindsight. Too many gifts when Marvin and Tommy came up the hard way. I think he would have competed in any era just not as successful as say Duran or Hagler would have.

The Hearns fight wasn't a controversial ending. Tommy was done. I thought Hagler won their fight, but the record shows he didn't. Duran DID take the rematch and lost. I don't believe you can 'revise' the events as they occurred to suit your 'needs.' You can hate on Leonard (I do all the time), but you can't ignore the events as they occurred.

[Onetimeonly]

The Hearns fight wasn't a controversial ending. Tommy was done. I thought Hagler won their fight, but the record shows he didn't. Duran DID take the rematch and lost. I don't believe you can 'revise' the events as they occurred to suit your 'needs.' You can hate on Leonard (I do all the time), but you can't ignore the events as they occurred.

While I totally agree that hearns was done, at the time it was definitely controversial. Not sure why, but it was.

[oogiebe]

While I totally agree that hearns was done, at the time it was definitely controversial. Not sure why, but it was.

I don't remember it being controversial (I'll take your word for it regarding public opinion), but then again, I go by what I saw.

[Onetimeonly]

Leonard’s only true win win was Benitez and even that should have been a decision win. The stoppage was b.s. The Hearns fight was close and yes Ray probably stops Tommy but once again quick stoppage. Duran quit and you can say ever you want here. But Hagler fight is b.s. as well. Ray was great but a very “structured” career. Three of his five belts are suspect for me

Don't be so generous, he intentionally head-butted and split open benitez before the first kd in round 3!

[Brian Seneca]

The Hearns fight wasn't a controversial ending. Tommy was done. I thought Hagler won their fight, but the record shows he didn't. Duran DID take the rematch and lost. I don't believe you can 'revise' the events as they occurred to suit your 'needs.' You can hate on Leonard (I do all the time), but you can't ignore the events as they occurred.

Aside from all of these fights, my biggest gripe with Ray was making his opponents wait for YEARS if HE won. Tommy deserves the second verdict but it goes down in the record books as a draw. He ran from Duran for most of the third fight which I paid for then and totally regretted it. What a bore.

[Brian Seneca]

Don't be so generous, he intentionally head-butted and split open benitez before the first kd in round 3!

I know Kahlue was a quality champion. But had Benitez beaten Hope by the time Ray fought Ayub? Now that would have been a nice rematch. Ray has maintained Wilfred gave him one of his toughest fights. He was scared. You can see him gritting his teeth at the staredown. I heard Benitez barely trained for Ray.

[Nile4000]

Who does he beat at lightweight? Never given that opportunity. Watt, O’Grady, he beat Arguello. Mancini? Could possibly have been undisputed lightweight champion after Duran.

Aaron could've beaten both Watt and O'Grady. Mancini in a good fight with a late round stoppage. Could see him even beating Kenty and Davis jr., though they would give him some problems.