BoxRec

I'm a big critic of Joshua too,always fought he was very overrated,I too am surprised he just seemed to jack like that

Like where's the f***ing will to keep hold of your belts?to stamp authority over your American debut?madness...

I always knew something like this would happen to Joshua,I take no joy in his downfall,but I do find it hilarious some of the ridiculous comments from his fans as to why he was beat,delusion like you've never seen before from some

Very surprised. I would have thought that AJ would have to be knocked out to lose. He didn't quit versus Klitschko when he was knackered and hurt, but I guess all he had to do there was keep circling while looking out for the single, telegraphed left or the single, telegraphed right. Against Ruiz he was constantly being walked down or hit, with the only break being the five seconds Ruiz was on his back - and the retribution from that was enormous! To be honest he looked like a very well-paid celebrity boxer who had discovered that boxing is too tough. I think he wanted to go back to the UK and have more of his easy fights.

I think we have to accept now that Joshua was very carefully managed, fighting the right opponents at the right time.

AJ proved in the Klit fight that there is nothing wrong with his chin and heart. Maybe his camp wasn't quite as intensive, but he looked in great shape, I'm sure he trained harder than Ruiz.
It's true that maybe he underestimated the Mexican, at this level just a few percent can make a huge difference.

Also what people aren't talking about is that some shots on the top of the head completely change your equilibrium and these shots are very difficult to recover from.

In the end Joshua got caught after winning the first 2 rounds and dropping Ruiz. This is boxing, these things happen and it is what makes the game great.

MightyWarrior wrote: ↑03 Jun 2019, 01:06 He didn’t quit.

Ref asked him if he wanted to continue and he nods and says yes.

But was so disorientated ( and had been for 5 rounds ) he didn’t grasp the ref wanted him to step towards him.

You can see he’s shocked when he sees the ref is stopping it...rightly so

I saw this too. He looks at his corner, then stands to face the ref while hanging in the corner and the ref asks him to walk forward and when he doesn’t... he waves it off. I think AJ was completely scrambled. His head wasn’t clearing, he was just taking more and more of a hiding. Maybe he did quit. Nobody was saving him. I personally think it’s mostly that Ruiz had battered him senseless that he didn’t know what was going on, and a little bit of survival instinct that said “save yourself”

I personally feel that people are being exceptionally harsh and are enjoying the downfall a bit much, but then a lot of people have dreamed of this for a long time. Sad to think that the shine had gone from those Fury and Wilder fights though, and sad to think that they may never even happen now anyway. What a curious sport. Everybody is so greedy.

If someone has been down 4 times and don't know where they are, and the ref stops it, it isn't quitting.

Coco wrote: ↑03 Jun 2019, 04:23 AJ proved in the Klit fight that there is nothing wrong with his chin and heart. Maybe his camp wasn't quite as intensive, but he looked in great shape, I'm sure he trained harder than Ruiz.
It's true that maybe he underestimated the Mexican, at this level just a few percent can make a huge difference.

But Klitschko wasn't able to work him over like Ruiz did, because he doesn't throw combinations, is too big to stand and trade with Joshua, and has his own glass chin and stamina issues to worry about. Dynamics against Ruiz totally different. 29 year old tough hombre with deep amateur background willing to brawl and can constantly walk you down and force one.

Klitschko's numerous flaws gave AJ room to recover and come back. Ruiz doesn't have those flaws. A simpler way of saying this would be, 'Styles make fights'!

He looked like hed had enough and was accepting when the ref saved him

REEVE wrote: ↑03 Jun 2019, 04:45 He looked like hed had enough and was accepting when the ref saved him

Agree. He might not have said to the ref he didnt want to quit, but his body language, an looking over at the corner the way he was him quitting without physically saying the words

Amir Khan didn't say "I quit" either, but the body language sent all the distress signals.

These recent British performances in MSG give me a new appreciation for Lennox Lewis not just falling apart against the bullish Ray Mercer.

KiwiRider wrote: ↑02 Jun 2019, 20:51 I was more surprised at his lack of stamina. He knew Ruiz would set a fast pace. He came in light against a similar fighter in Parker- why then did he falter so soon?

Parker didn't set a pace though, its nearly up there with Klitchsko vs Fury as the dullest heavyweight title fight ever..... NEARLY!

clopixolacuphase wrote: ↑03 Jun 2019, 04:28 I saw this too. He looks at his corner, then stands to face the ref while hanging in the corner and the ref asks him to walk forward and when he doesn’t... he waves it off. I think AJ was completely scrambled. His head wasn’t clearing, he was just taking more and more of a hiding. Maybe he did quit. Nobody was saving him. I personally think it’s mostly that Ruiz had battered him senseless that he didn’t know what was going on, and a little bit of survival instinct that said “save yourself”

I personally feel that people are being exceptionally harsh and are enjoying the downfall a bit much, but then a lot of people have dreamed of this for a long time. Sad to think that the shine had gone from those Fury and Wilder fights though, and sad to think that they may never even happen now anyway. What a curious sport. Everybody is so greedy.

Not sure how he'd be clear headed enough to watch the count, get up, walk to the corner, tell the ref yes when asked if he wants to continue, but then be too dazed to follow the walk to me instructions?

He was silently asking the ref for an out and he got it.

straali wrote: ↑03 Jun 2019, 03:07 AJ at the weekend looked to me like someone affected by David Price syndrome.....looked gassed very early and seemed disorientated mentally. Price's problems often attributed to burning up lots of nervous energy.

That's what i was going to say,looked like nervous energy the way he was gasping for air so early on.

Covfefe wrote: ↑02 Jun 2019, 22:34 A bit dramatic.

Tell me that when he is next in a "when the going gets tough" fight cause i bet he quits again.

It looked as though he knew real damage would come if he tried to throw bombs back.
In his 'business sense' self , he may have thought, get out with as little damage as possible, which he did.
Would have liked to see some of the Wlad spirit he showed before but hey ho.

I reckon he wasent prepared mentally for this opponent and just thought he could go through the motions and win. You know what it’s like with that mentality that if someone hurts you it’s too late to readjust your focus

He either quitted or was concussed enough to forget, that you gotta raise hands and step forward instead of just standing in the corner. But both these things aren't surprising, cause Joshua took a solid beating and continuation of the fight could lead most likely only to more severe damage.

youngrell wrote: ↑03 Jun 2019, 05:19 Not sure how he'd be clear headed enough to watch the count, get up, walk to the corner, tell the ref yes when asked if he wants to continue, but then be too dazed to follow the walk to me instructions?

He was silently asking the ref for an out and he got it.

He got knocked down four times, got up four times. It’s heavyweight boxing. They’re 18 stone men. He may have been sold as such but he isn’t Superman. You want concussed people to keep on running into fists until they’re brain dead?

If he didn’t have any fight in him he wouldn’t have kept on getting up. Whether he knew it or not he was well beaten and was going over again. I don’t know why people have to go to the brink of death before they can rescue any respect from people. Boxing is such a weird sport.

clopixolacuphase wrote: ↑03 Jun 2019, 07:11 He got knocked down four times, got up four times. It’s heavyweight boxing. They’re 18 stone men. He may have been sold as such but he isn’t Superman. You want concussed people to keep on running into fists until they’re brain dead?

If he didn’t have any fight in him he wouldn’t have kept on getting up. Whether he knew it or not he was well beaten and was going over again. I don’t know why people have to go to the brink of death before they can rescue any respect from people. Boxing is such a weird sport.

What part of my post showed any disrespect to the fighter or made you think I wanted him to get seriously hurt, exactly?

I was merely pointing out that he was fine following all of the refs instructions except the final one, which lead me to believe he had enough and wanted the ref to call it off. Nothing wrong with that, but to me its silly to think he did not understand the ref when he clearly showed multiple times right before that he did. He was done, that's all.

youngrell wrote: ↑03 Jun 2019, 07:20 What part of my post showed any disrespect to the fighter or made you think I wanted him to get seriously hurt, exactly?

I was merely pointing out that he was fine following all of the refs instructions except the final one, which lead me to believe he had enough and wanted the ref to call it off. Nothing wrong with that, but to me its silly to think he did not understand the ref when he clearly showed multiple times right before that he did. He was done, that's all.

Yeah he was able to follow to get up from the knockdowns and beat the counts. Being punched to the floor four times in reasonably close succession in-between sustaining more punches to the skull isn't going to cause any accumulative damage at all. Being beaten up and stopped isn't enough of a humiliation as it is. He knew exactly where he was and what he was doing. If you weren't criticising him for 'quitting' then fair enough, my irritation is directed towards other posters' strange expectation of fighters to be willing to die. It is, all in all, just entertainment.

It isn't a Roberto Duran 'no mas' or a Victor Ortiz "I don't think I should be getting beaten up like this". He really wasn't with it at all. All this "he didn't like the hurty man punching him" bollocks is annoying. Ruiz kicked fornicate out of him. Don't take away Ruiz's victory by saying AJ quit. AJ got knocked out. If he'd wanted to quit, he should have just stayed down. That would have been the more face saving exercise. I honestly think he didn't really know what was going on from the first KD onwards and that puts all the subsequent weird behaviour into perspective.

Dave Allen gave an interesting interview where he said that Joshua fought like somebody who had been KO'd or beaten up in sparring, and that something will come out over the next few weeks. I'll be interested in whoever it was he was sparring if that's the case.

MightyWarrior wrote: ↑03 Jun 2019, 01:06 He didn’t quit.

Ref asked him if he wanted to continue and he nods and says yes.

But was so disorientated ( and had been for 5 rounds ) he didn’t grasp the ref wanted him to step towards him.

You can see he’s shocked when he sees the ref is stopping it...rightly so

no Joshua fanboy but I agree with this, Joshua was 'concussed' and not really thinking straight from that 3rd round onwards.

certainly many fighters who have suffered heavy knockdowns and got up dont remember the rest of the fight and they are no longer thinking there way through a fight, rather surviving on natural instincts... unfortunately Joshua doesnt seem to have that sub-conscious survival element.

I cant really think of any specific examples know but I certainly remember fighters saying they were sleep walking through a fight after a heavy knock down and also occasions when a fight may have ended in the later rounds, but it was effectively done much earlier, as the beaten fighter was on his feet but operating sub-optimally following the initial knockdown.

Joe Louis versus Schmeling is a good example, Louis was cooked after the first knockdown and was on another planet for the rest of the fight, but he had better survival instincts than AJ that kept him up for a further 7 rounds or so.

knockout wrote: ↑03 Jun 2019, 08:22I cant really think of any specific examples know but I certainly remember fighters saying they were sleep walking through a fight after a heavy knock down and also occasions when a fight may have ended in the later rounds, but it was effectively done much earlier, as the beaten fighter was on his feet but operating sub-optimally following the initial knockdown.

Tony Doyle got decked by a hard left hook from Jerry Quarry. He got up and lasted the distance, and then in his dressing room afterwards asked his corner what time he was going to be fighting Jerry Quarry.

I remembre taking a count in the third, I considered it a flash knockdown, fiddled my way through to the end of the round, after bell went for the start of the next round they said it was the last round(of 6) so I missed two rounds, I was actually quite relieved!

I don't know if he quit but he didn't want it. He gassed out and looked as interested in boxing as Dimitrenko.

In hindsight I may have been a bit harsh suggesting that he may have quit.

He'd taken a fair whipping in that 7th round and has been down 4 times in total. I wouldn't describe that as quitting. The guy had taken a lot of punishment and had nothing left to give.

tonyevs wrote: ↑03 Jun 2019, 02:10 Fear and anxiety can make you tire. The new level of pressure on him fighting in the USA. Finding himself unable to physically dominate the little fat fella in front of him - then he gets hurt and dropped twice by him - and the realisation that he didnt have the skills to turn it around.

Fear of embarrassment is often greater than the fear of actually getting physically hurt.
In the return he will be the heavy favourite again, and I am not sure he is mentally strong enough to cope again if things get tough.

100% Agree. Good post!