BoxRec

stujones wrote: ↑03 Jun 2019, 07:55 And I'll say it again - its Andy Freaking Ruiz. The guy hasn't beaten anyone remotely in the top 20 as a Pro. Running Parker close isn't a win and indeed, who has Parker really beaten. Parker's best wins are against fighters more well known for their loses (Takam, Fury and Ruiz - up until Saturday).

He may not have beaten anyone in the top 20 previously, but he has now destroyed Anthony Joshua, so really it no longer matters. Why exactly his team favoured the grave robbing approach to matching him I have no idea. They obviously didn't realise just how handy the little fat guy is. Glad I revised my opinion on him before the fight!

overhand_right wrote: ↑03 Jun 2019, 08:10 He may not have beaten anyone in the top 20 previously, but he has now destroyed Anthony Joshua, so really it no longer matters. Why exactly his team favoured the grave robbing approach to matching him I have no idea. They obviously didn't realise just how handy the little fat guy is. Glad I revised my opinion on him before the fight!

Yup, Ruiz is a warrior and well schooled to boot. He was hurt in R3 but he still had the ability to slip under a left hook from AJ. That's muscle memory, to pull that slip when hurt and under pressure from a guy like AJ. Only 2 seconds later he clipped AJ with a left hook of his own. That's the story of the fight, a guy who naturally slips under left hooks vs a stiff who doesn't have that in his locker.

It's not as bad as others I've seen in my lifetime, let alone historically. However, Joshua's loss has far more catastrophic consequences than just his "0" being gone.

The division is now in disarray.

The IBF will most likely strip Andy Ruiz.

All things considered, even if Joshua defeated Ruiz in a rematch, it's going to take until 2022 at least before there ever is a Fury-Joshua or Wilder-Joshua fight.

So heavyweight boxing has taken a massive hit. If Joshua cannot defeat Ruiz in a rematch the division will have officially lost it's biggest star. It'd take years to rebuild his image just like it took Wladimir Klitschko years to put behind losses to Sanders & Brewster.

The hope NOW then is to put our hopes on Wilder-Fury 2 and see THAT winner as the genuine star of the division, and hopefully face the IBF title winner in a unification bout, which leads to a fight with Ruiz for the rest.

But that's on the HOPE the WBO & WBA don't pull the same stunt as the IBF and further fracture the championship, because if that happens you may as well throw all hope of ever seeing an UNDISPUTED champion again in our lifetime.

Let this be a lesson and warning to fighters and promoters alike. THIS is what happens when you refuse to fight the absolute best, and refuse to give the fans the fights they deserve. You will absolutely fornicate everything up sooner or later.

Ricky wrote: ↑03 Jun 2019, 08:51 Yup, Ruiz is a warrior and well schooled to boot. He was hurt in R3 but he still had the ability to slip under a left hook from AJ. That's muscle memory, to pull that slip when hurt and under pressure from a guy like AJ. Only 2 seconds later he clipped AJ with a left hook of his own. That's the story of the fight, a guy who naturally slips under left hooks vs a stiff who doesn't have that in his locker.

He does have the touches of (different style I know) a Sinan Samil Sam (still my favourite boxing name) about him..... Not a body beautiful but a natural boxer / fighter. He's never shown a warrior mentality before, never needed too, but I thought he kind of threw away the Parker fighter - whether you think he won or not, it was (for me) more a case of Ruiz "losing it" as opposed to Parker winning it..... which is a running theme with Parker IMO. So I fully expected him to stay down vs Joshua when hurt - so I will say for him.

However, I think Joshua - as much as I don't rate him..... I don't rate ANY of the heavyweights sorry - at Wembley and training for Ruiz will be a different prospect and the one moment he can take from that is his ability to hurt Ruiz. I think he can keep him down in a rematch. I kind of hope I am wrong because I want to see natural fighters and not robots at the top of the division.

However, a Ruiz win in a rematch surely opens the door for Usyk and I cannot wait for Usyk vs Ruiz. As I think we will have a champion who is not a robot (Joshua), who is not a raw, unschooled novice (Wilder) and also looks the part (sorry Fury, Ruiz)..... and I think looking the part is an important aspect to market the division.

After reading the comments it would have been a huge upset if Ruiz didn't win!
In terms of how good he is, let's see, if he struggles against the usual suspects it will show what a bad night it was for Joshua.
Maybe this natural fighter of huge amateur experience will smash Fury and Wilder too!

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑03 Jun 2019, 09:23 It's not as bad as others I've seen in my lifetime, let alone historically. However, Joshua's loss has far more catastrophic consequences than just his "0" being gone.

The division is now in disarray.

The IBF will most likely strip Andy Ruiz.

All things considered, even if Joshua defeated Ruiz in a rematch, it's going to take until 2022 at least before there ever is a Fury-Joshua or Wilder-Joshua fight.

So heavyweight boxing has taken a massive hit. If Joshua cannot defeat Ruiz in a rematch the division will have officially lost it's biggest star. It'd take years to rebuild his image just like it took Wladimir Klitschko years to put behind losses to Sanders & Brewster.

The hope NOW then is to put our hopes on Wilder-Fury 2 and see THAT winner as the genuine star of the division, and hopefully face the IBF title winner in a unification bout, which leads to a fight with Ruiz for the rest.

But that's on the HOPE the WBO & WBA don't pull the same stunt as the IBF and further fracture the championship, because if that happens you may as well throw all hope of ever seeing an UNDISPUTED champion again in our lifetime.

Let this be a lesson and warning to fighters and promoters alike. THIS is what happens when you refuse to fight the absolute best, and refuse to give the fans the fights they deserve. You will absolutely eff everything up sooner or later.

Yes, and I must say I am pleased with what I bolded - I was getting so frustrated with the calls that this was some kind of "golden era" and how on fire it was....... The three "champions" prior to Saturday where just by far the best of a terrible bunch and I just was hating how they were hyped as something they were not - really none of the three should be near the P4P bracket.

When we had poor champions in the Mid 90s - the likes of Seldon, Akinwande, Botha, Moorer, Bruno etc - I think they'd give the "big 3" a hell of a run. I honestly think Akinwande would have tied Fury up in knots, Moorer would have given Wilder a boxing lesson (yes, he'd need to be careful) and Bruno's terrible boxing IQ is better than Joshua's.

Coco wrote: ↑03 Jun 2019, 09:42 After reading the comments it would have been a huge upset if Ruiz didn't win!
In terms of how good he is, let's see, if he struggles against the usual suspects it will show what a bad night it was for Joshua.
Maybe this natural fighter of huge amateur experience will smash Fury and Wilder too!

Usyk will give Ruiz a boxing lesson IMO.

stujones wrote: ↑03 Jun 2019, 09:40 He does have the touches of (different style I know) a Sinan Samil Sam (still my favourite boxing name) about him..... Not a body beautiful but a natural boxer / fighter. He's never shown a warrior mentality before, never needed too, but I thought he kind of threw away the Parker fighter - whether you think he won or not, it was (for me) more a case of Ruiz "losing it" as opposed to Parker winning it..... which is a running theme with Parker IMO. So I fully expected him to stay down vs Joshua when hurt - so I will say for him.

However, I think Joshua - as much as I don't rate him..... I don't rate ANY of the heavyweights sorry - at Wembley and training for Ruiz will be a different prospect and the one moment he can take from that is his ability to hurt Ruiz. I think he can keep him down in a rematch. I kind of hope I am wrong because I want to see natural fighters and not robots at the top of the division.

However, a Ruiz win in a rematch surely opens the door for Usyk and I cannot wait for Usyk vs Ruiz. As I think we will have a champion who is not a robot (Joshua), who is not a raw, unschooled novice (Wilder) and also looks the part (sorry Fury, Ruiz)..... and I think looking the part is an important aspect to market the division.

I think Usyk will be 1 of the greatest ever, but i guess we need to see him in at HW first.

As for AJ, I don't get why people think he'd do better in a rematch given how exposed he was. Is it just the case folk think his power will come good. He hurt Ruiz but not to the point that Ruiz was on unsteady legs. The knockdown of Ruiz he was a bit stunned but on solid kegs when he got up. AJ then drilled home a massive right seconds later and Ruiz just ate it. His chin is legit. I think the fact he took AJs bombs and was still firing back broke AJs heart.

Ruiz's eyes were perfectly clear when he was on the floor. It was a beautiful shot from a big powerhouse so god only knows what you have to hit Ruiz with to daze him, probably a McDonalds ban.

Ricky wrote: ↑03 Jun 2019, 09:46 I think Usyk will be 1 of the greatest ever, but i guess we need to see him in at HW first.

As for AJ, I don't get why people think he'd do better in a rematch given how exposed he was. Is it just the case folk think his power will come good. He hurt Ruiz but not to the point that Ruiz was on unsteady legs. The knockdown of Ruiz he was a bit stunned but on solid kegs when he got up. AJ then drilled home a massive right seconds later and Ruiz just ate it. His chin is legit. I think the fact he took AJs bombs and was still firing back broke AJs heart.

Yes valid points - honestly though I think before Saturday had Eddie asked the fans - what do you want Usyk vs Takam or Usyk vs Ruiz - I think most would go for Takam as the more dangerous fight.

Ruiz's size (or lack of) and usually lack of power must give the cruiser's / smaller heavyweights some serious hope. Hunter vs Joshua sounded a mismatch on paper...... but Hunter vs Ruiz would be an intriguing fight with two small, light punching heavyweights with a high IQ and good hand speed.

Usyk will actually be the taller man vs Ruiz, something he didn't think he would be. One of the issues I have of him as a heavyweight is that he is quite used to being the same height, or similar, at cruiser and how is he going to cope giving away so much reach. All of a sudden this issue is no where near as big.

I've always wanted to see Briedis take the plunge also - this might be the opportunity...... crikey I wonder if Bellew has been on the blower to Dave Caldwell yet!

In terms of a rematch - the expectation is going to be changed, Joshua is going to be a hell of a lot more focused and there will be a new pressure on Ruiz. Joshua in a UK stadium is a different prospect IMO.

overhand_right wrote: ↑03 Jun 2019, 09:49 Ruiz's eyes were perfectly clear when he was on the floor. It was a beautiful shot from a big powerhouse so god only knows what you have to hit Ruiz with to daze him, probably a McDonalds ban.

I've always had doubts about AJ. Remember when he said that he wasn't ready for Haye about three years ago (many agreed), and then Bellew beat him and we suddenly realised it'd be a mismatch. Because a 75% Haye would've been a threat, and though there were signs he'd slid further, few of us knew quite how far.

I mention Haye because a similar thing happened in my mind with Miller. When he rolled up to AJ at the Povetkin presser, I'd have bet on AJ stopping him had they fought really soon after. But then by the time they were scheduled to meet, for some reason I'd started giving Miller a really good chance. Joshua seemed either complacent or unable to deal with certain styles post-Wlad, and I was looking forward to seeing Miller's workrate against him.

When Ruiz was brought in to replace him, I still had that sense that AJ was coasting enough to be in for a hard night's work. But right up until the final moments I expected Ruiz to walk onto a fight-ending shot. I didn't watch it live and heard it finished with a stoppage, so throughout the replay I was waiting for an AJ counter that never came. I'm not that surprised, and I think that both Ruiz and Miller are legit top-tenners.

Personally, I think this might be good news for the division. I actually think it might pay for Joshua to take the rematch immediately, because then he'll find out if he lost due to fixable aspects. Like if he just needs to drop to 240 and do more cardio, refinding a confidence in his work that seems to have been waylaid. Because he did well until he didn't!

We saw against Takam that he didn't like having to fight with a bust nose, so maybe he'll always be a bit mentally fragile. We saw a warrior against Wlad, though, is the weird thing. Was that fight the anomaly, or this one...

Good post. I think this upset is very good for the division, as it shows the massive financial loss that can occur when you keep deferring a Superfight. From Tyson beating Tucker it took less than a year to put him and Spinks together.

After Lewis and Holyfield trounced Golota and Moorer respectively, it was seen as outrageous that it took them so long to fight each other, although it was 'only' actually 16 months, and that was because the three sanctioning bodies delayed the fight the world wanted to see with their ridiculous undeserving mandatories: WBC: Mavrovic; IBF: Bean; WBA: Akinwande (nixed by hepatitis thank god). Even though Lewis was HBO/Panix and Holyfield the rival Showtime/King, it was still in the culture to unify.

Joshua and Wilder have been quite frankly ridiculous and embarrassing with how long they have strung this out and avoided each other, and now Joshua has been annihilated while we await the Wilder implosion.

Yeah, I don't believe any of them are great enough to beat everyone else, and that should be a blessing for us fans, but it's been a curse through avoidance. I'd still like to see Fury-Price! Price wouldn't have to worry about punches from funny angles against a man his own size, and if Fury's relative lack of power tempted him to go for it before he gassed in the third...

But I wouldn't give Price a chance against any other top heavy, and that's my point: we've been robbed of interesting fights for years. I want Ruiz, AJ, Fury and Wilder battling for #1 (fingers crossed they are), with Usyk, Whyte, Ortiz, Parker, Hrgovic, Joyce, Kuzmin, Demirezen, Gorman, Gassiev et al contesting for the right to be challengers. It IS a good era, we're just not enjoying it!

Fury beating Wlad was a bigger one in my eyes. Wlad dominated the HW division for years sparking out opponents regularly and Fury went in with a suspect chin, knowing that one decent shot could be good night for Fury.