BoxRec

Whoever wins is probably top 20.
I can't wait

tiny_acres wrote: ↑04 Jun 2019, 21:20 Whoever wins is probably top 20.
I can't wait

At this point, Efe doesn't need a top 20 ranking. He has a good year of work ahead of him.

oogiebe wrote: ↑04 Jun 2019, 21:24 At this point, Efe doesn't need a top 20 ranking. He has a good year of work ahead of him.

Well he might not need it but he's be there

oogiebe wrote: ↑04 Jun 2019, 21:24 At this point, Efe doesn't need a top 20 ranking. He has a good year of work ahead of him.

Efe’s activity has been good. Gradual.

Also, wouldn’t you need to really beat someone in the top 20? Realistically.

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑05 Jun 2019, 08:29 Efe’s activity has been good. Gradual.

Also, wouldn’t you need to really beat someone in the top 20? Realistically.

LOL! One would think so, but doesn't always work that way does it? Demirezen is ranked 32 or something on BoxRec.

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑05 Jun 2019, 08:29 Efe’s activity has been good. Gradual.

Also, wouldn’t you need to really beat someone in the top 20? Realistically.

Not in a division with nowhere near 20 good fighters.

I already have Ajagba ranked #15 and Demirezen #16 right behind him. I think the winner is knocking on the door of the top ten.

The fight still isn't listed on BoxRec....is it official yet?

I have to pick Ajagba, I think he might end up being what Ibeabuchi could have been.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑05 Jun 2019, 09:03 Not in a division with nowhere near 20 good fighters.

The HW division always gets bullied. Plenty of good HW’s.

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑05 Jun 2019, 08:29 Efe’s activity has been good. Gradual.

Also, wouldn’t you need to really beat someone in the top 20? Realistically.

Nope.

Some people ranked Breazeale in the top 10 when he didn't have any wins against any top 40 opponents.
Some people ranked Charles Martin in the top 10 when he didn't have any legit wins against anyone in the top 70.
Wilder was ranked in the top 3 when his best win was Bermane Stiverne, he would've generously been considered #10-15 at the time.
Jarrell Miller achieved a roughly #8 ranking from beating no one better than roughly #17 Johann Duhaupas.
Many people rank Hrgovic in their top 15, but he hasn't beaten anyone better than Mansour (who probably isn't top 50 anymore).
Chris Arreola was ranked top 5 in 2009, when his best win was Jameel McCline.

Although some of these bad rankings are examples of user error, the fact is that you don't have to beat someone of your rank to achieve your rank. If you dominate someone who is ranked #30, then (all other things being equal) you are not just a little bit superior to them, you are quite superior to them, and belong many ranks above them.

There is also the effect of greater evidence -- if you beat one opponent who is #30, then there is a little evidence that you would consistently beat opponents of that caliber. But if you are 12-0 against opponents ranked #30, then there is extensive evidence that you would consistently beat opponents of that caliber. Efe already has wins over Wallisch and Mansour, which help support the notion that a win over Demirezen would not be interpreted as a fluke. Since Ruiz had such a thin resume before beating Joshua, we debate whether that was a fluke. But if Ruiz had already beaten Wilder and Fury going into the Joshua fight, then we would regard Ruiz's win as certainly the better man winning. That's the difference between ranking Ruiz easily a top 10 HW all-time vs still doubting that he is even a top 50 HW all-time.

It also depends on the texture of the division. There could be some weird twilight zone where everyone in the top 50 has no wins against anyone in the top 50, and everyone refuses to fight anyone above journeyman status. Maybe everyone in the top 50 has beaten everyone below the top 50, but refuses to fight one another.

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑05 Jun 2019, 11:11 The HW division always gets bullied. Plenty of good HW’s.

Depends on your definition. There are plenty of interesting prospects.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑05 Jun 2019, 12:28 Depends on your definition. There are plenty of interesting prospects.

But HW is always the case. Once the prospects get beat, they’re just another HW.

Wlad’s domination kinda did ruin it, but he was just that good.

How many 0’s did Wlad take during his 10 year reign? Over 10 I think. Not all where prospects though fair enough.

As of before last Saturday. It was Fury, Wilder and Joshua are the top 3, then we had guys like Whyte, Ortiz, Povetkin and maybe 1 or 2 more as close contenders, and then it was the rest of the top 10, and then basically ‘the rest’..

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑05 Jun 2019, 13:03 But HW is always the case. Once the prospects get beat, they’re just another HW.

Wlad’s domination kinda did ruin it, but he was just that good.

How many 0’s did Wlad take during his 10 year reign? Over 10 I think. Not all where prospects though fair enough.

As of before last Saturday. It was Fury, Wilder and Joshua are the top 3, then we had guys like Whyte, Ortiz, Povetkin and maybe 1 or 2 more as close contenders, and then it was the rest of the top 10, and then basically ‘the rest’..

Records don't matter to me as much as the fights. Wlad was good, his opposition was largely garbage.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑05 Jun 2019, 13:12 Records don't matter to me as much as the fights. Wlad was good, his opposition was largely garbage.

His competition wasn’t that garbage. 20 defences is a lot. Because no one beat him, no one was better than him. So they were garbage.

characters wrote: ↑05 Jun 2019, 13:49 I think this match could be more competative then many might expect.

I think most are expecting a competitive fight. Those who are aware who these two guys are anyway.

im expecting ali to walk forward as he does, but eat long punches, and get worn down, but still able to give efe his most rounds yet

its a good fight for sure, two unbeaten guys from the same olympic year

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑05 Jun 2019, 14:29 His competition wasn’t that garbage. 20 defences is a lot. Because no one beat him, no one was better than him. So they were garbage.

Not why I call them garbage. They weren't good fighters, he was.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑05 Jun 2019, 15:29 Not why I call them garbage. They weren't good fighters, he was.

Tell me the names that he fought which you think aren’t garbage.

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑05 Jun 2019, 18:14 Tell me the names that he fought which you think aren’t garbage.

Haye, povetkin, ibragimov off the top of my head and none of them are anything special.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑05 Jun 2019, 18:16 Haye, povetkin, ibragimov off the top of my head and none of them are anything special.

Chagaev?

Pulev?

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑05 Jun 2019, 18:18 Chagaev?

Pulev?

Not for me. Obviously not 'garbage', decent fighters in a poor era.

Guess it is official now.

As a compatriot, i sincerely wish Demirezen gets a win in this. He’s a good guy, got real sportmanship, a modest man trying to make his dreams real while sticking (or still staying) in his own country. Picked a city close to his hometown to train, not even Istanbul, changed his routines and i should just hope it works out fine for him.

Yet predicting the fight, it’a obvious Ali opens up in later rounds, but he manages his stamina and energy well. He had some hard time again similar tall guy Werwejko, but worked him out and stayed calm, and got a standing TKO win. Against Ajagba he may go after him and suffer lots of jabs doing so, hopefully tires him up enough and finds an opening. He must be in his best shape surely. It may become another Ruiz-Joshua like victory if he gets a win against an adonis man, with a big belly.

Hi Betro. Do you think Umut Camkiran is likely to make much of an impact at world or even european level?

He struck me as raw but very powerful. He seems to have slipped below the radar lately. Not long ago I thought that he and Erkan Teper might make a very interesting match one day soon.

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑05 Jun 2019, 18:14 Tell me the names that he fought which you think aren’t garbage.

Sultan,peter,chagaev,haye,povetkin,pulev,byrd they were great boxers

Hi, i think he can’t. He can defend his belt a couple of times maybe with the right boxers, such as Mensur Dedic who a rumor says his next fight will be. He lacks lots of talent and also lacks activity and a promoter that can keep him busy and keep going.

I think a match-up between Demirezen and Çamkıran would be much more interesting yet Turkey has only very limited number of active boxers and it sounds awkward to match them up and get to lose their 0 to each other, Also in a country where almost no one will be interested or even know those fighters actually exist.

I've watched a couple of Ali Eren Demirezen's bouts and he's a deeply unimpressive fighter, regardless of his unbeaten record.

And whilst it’s clear you should never judge a book by its cover, the flabby Turk is no Andy Ruiz Jr., since he doesn’t have fast hands, he is lacking boxing ability and nor is he particularly heavy-handed either.

This should be an easy victory for Efe Ajagba, though I hope Demirezen is sturdy enough to force the inexperienced Nigerian to last at least five rounds.

I can’t really criticise the calibre of the guys that Ajagba is currently being matched-up against, since he’s a young inexperienced fighter that badly needs to get rounds under his belt in order to learn his trade, which means that it's sensible for his career to progress at a slow but steady pace. He’s at least two to three years away from competing against world-rated opposition.