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Duran wasn't a Lightweight, he was a Featherweight ! Just like De La Hoya quit against a Flyweight, Joe Louis got beat bad by a Middleweight, etc.

He only does it with Duran though, (or one of his other favorites.) He acts like no one else moves up in weight.
Actually, he hates DLH so he probably does count that De La Hoya.


Leonard was fighting at over 160 when he fought Hearns, but that is not supposed to count. He always acts like Duran is the only fighter to ever move up in weight. Like it's some miracle that a guy moves up in weight from the time he is 21 to when he is 29.

Leonard moved up. Hearns moved up. He acts like Duran weighed 135 pounds when he fought Duran.
Then he said we can only imagine what a prime Hearns would have done to Leonard. If only they had fought at 147.... oh thats right, they did.
By his own logic, Hearns had to be at his prime at 147, not when he moved up to 154.

I guess he now comparing Leonard at at 34, closing in on 35, not having fought in 14 months and losing a decision to Norris as Duran getting face planted by Hearns in two rounds.
How about when Duran lost to Kirkland Laing when he was just 31? Does that count?


Somehow that is a ass whipping when he himself only gave the decision to Duran by 3 points. 3 points seriously. That is supposed to an ass whipping.
Bit a TKO 8 by Leonard is supposed to be swept under the rug!

He constantly ignores facts, throws out common sense, and cherry picks to favor Roberto "forever a flyweight" Duran. And of course he ignores other people comments that contradict his BS.

Seamus wrote: ↑27 Jun 2019, 12:29 Duran wasn't a Lightweight, he was a Featherweight ! Just like De La Hoya quit against a Flyweight, Joe Louis got beat bad by a Middleweight, etc.

Shame on them, then. With the exception of the great Joe Louis, now he was out of his prime way before he met the great Ezzard Charles.

C'mon, Seamus! Do you really believe that Sugar Ray didn't fight his fight?

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑27 Jun 2019, 15:50 He only does it with Duran though, (or one of his other favorites.) He acts like no one else moves up in weight.
Actually, he hates DLH so he probably does count that De La Hoya.


Leonard was fighting at over 160 when he fought Hearns, but that is not supposed to count. He always acts like Duran is the only fighter to ever move up in weight. Like it's some miracle that a guy moves up in weight from the time he is 21 to when he is 29.

Leonard moved up. Hearns moved up. He acts like Duran weighed 135 pounds when he fought Duran.
Then he said we can only imagine what a prime Hearns would have done to Leonard. If only they had fought at 147.... oh thats right, they did.
By his own logic, Hearns had to be at his prime at 147, not when he moved up to 154.

I guess he now comparing Leonard at at 34, closing in on 35, not having fought in 14 months and losing a decision to Norris as Duran getting face planted by Hearns in two rounds.
How about when Duran lost to Kirkland Laing when he was just 31? Does that count?


Somehow that is a ass whipping when he himself only gave the decision to Duran by 3 points. 3 points seriously. That is supposed to an ass whipping.
Bit a TKO 8 by Leonard is supposed to be swept under the rug!

He constantly ignores facts, throws out common sense, and cherry picks to favor Roberto "forever a flyweight" Duran. And of course he ignores other people comments that contradict his BS.

Sugar Ray never had excuses, Alp. He could never have, of course.

Duran never got beat by a featherweight when he was Lightweight Champion. And that was just 9 pounds for a featherweight to come up.

Duran? He went up 12 pounds to get a decent fight. He whupped someone IN HIS PRIME, STRONGER, FASTER, BIGGER, YOUNGER and in his OWN DAMN CLASS. That's not the bullcrap that you want to come up with Sugar Ray beating a FADING MARVELOUS. Duran kicked Sugar Ray's ass! That's the end of story. A LIGHTWEIGHT did it. Now, for the public that loved Leonard, THE EXCUSES come up:

1. Sugar Ray didn't fight his fight. Why is that? Ain't he was the bigger fighter? Ain't he was the younger one? Ain't he always fought that way? What happened to Andy Price? I didn't see Sugar Ray complaining that he didn't fight his fight. Do you? What up with the great Wilfred Benitez? I don't see him complaining that he didn't fight his fight. Do you? Why? Because he won those fights the SAME WAY he fought them. But when it comes to Duran? Now, he didn't fight his fight? What a CONTRADICTION AND HYPOCRISY!

The thing was that Roberto whupped him FAIR AND SQUARE. SUGAR RAY GOT HIS ASS WHUPPED! END OF STORY.

Now, you want to compare Sugar Ray wins over Tommy Hearns and Benitez. Did he beat them at 147? Yes! At 154? No. Duran fought them at 154, at his worst weight class. That is not a FAIR ASSESSMENT. If they would have beaten Duran at least at 147, then it is fair game.

Was Duran in his prime when he fought them? No! At his best weight class? No. Everybody knows that. But, the Terry Norris fight with Sugar Ray doesn't count? Where is the FAIRNESS on that?

Duran moved up for a dozen fights or so. You're right about fighting his fight though, he had no choice.

Except if you actually watch the fight and see him constantly go right at Duran over and over. He had a choice not to do this.
This is not an excuse for Leonard. It's a criticism.
Jerry Quarry often used a strategy that he should not have. I am not making excuses for Quarry in saying that. I am criticizing Quarry for that.

Going right at Duran and fighting on the inside was not the best strategy for Leonard to beat Duran. I know elmer can't figure that out, but I hope everyone else can.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑28 Jun 2019, 10:46 Except if you actually watch the fight and see him constantly go right at Duran over and over. He had a choice not to do this.
This is not an excuse for Leonard. It's a criticism.
Jerry Quarry often used a strategy that he should not have. I am not making excuses for Quarry in saying that. I am criticizing Quarry for that.

Going right at Duran and fighting on the inside was not the best strategy for Leonard to beat Duran. I know elmer can't figure that out, but I hope everyone else can.

Yeah, but Sugar Ray fought Benitez on the inside in the last round and won. He beat Hearns on the inside and won. The same happened to Pete Ranzany, Andy Price, and others. But when it comes to Duran, he made a mistake? Now, you see the HYPOCRISY?

Oh, he fought the last round of the 15 rounds on the inside against Benitez on the inside? I guess that changes everything. The Andy Price fight ended in the first round so it is hard use that as an example.

Leonard didn't fight against Hagler the same way he fought the Duran the first time. Obviously Leonard didn't fight Duran the same way the second time.
In most of Leonard's fights, he was boxer first and inside fighter second.
I guess I have this crazy notion that sometimes a fighter should modify his strategy depending on the opponent.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑28 Jun 2019, 15:40 Oh, he fought the last round of the 15 rounds on the inside against Benitez on the inside? I guess that changes everything. The Andy Price fight ended in the first round so it is hard use that as an example.

Leonard didn't fight against Hagler the same way he fought the Duran the first time. Obviously Leonard didn't fight Duran the same way the second time.
In most of Leonard's fights, he was boxer first and inside fighter second.
I guess I have this crazy notion that sometimes a fighter should modify his strategy depending on the opponent.

How could that be when you're opponent is smaller, slower and not as strong as you? Sugar Ray had all the advantages, and he lost. Plain and simple. End of Story.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑28 Jun 2019, 10:46 Except if you actually watch the fight and see him constantly go right at Duran over and over. He had a choice not to do this.
This is not an excuse for Leonard. It's a criticism.
Jerry Quarry often used a strategy that he should not have. I am not making excuses for Quarry in saying that. I am criticizing Quarry for that.

Going right at Duran and fighting on the inside was not the best strategy for Leonard to beat Duran. I know elmer can't figure that out, but I hope everyone else can.

He was badly rocked at the end of Rd 2. It's like saying Duran fought the wrong fight in the rematch. It's not always the boxer that dictates terms. Not to mention Padilla was all about the infighting. It's whatever, I think ray had to stand his ground or he would have gotten run over. One of his best performances IMO.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑28 Jun 2019, 12:12 He beat Hearns on the inside and won.

what? he landed some punches from up close at some points, that's not at all the same as beating him on the inside, the vast majority of that fight, leonard was using his feet to stay out of range and Hearns was stalking him. there was like a 30-60 second period in the 6th round when they were stood in range and Leonard was teeing off (that was after Leonard wobbled Hearns with the left uppercut-cum-hook*), he then chased Hearns for like 2-3 rounds (with hearns making sure he wasn't on the inside with his Roadrunner-act footwork), then Hearns got his wind and legs back, established the jab, fvcked leonard's eye up, and dominated from the outside. then leonard landed that overhand right rd13 i think, hearns wobbled again, and the finish came.

* (1) this was landed when they were boxing at distance- Leonard inside-slipped the jab and came underneath with the left uppercut, NOT from inside fighting
*(2) seemingly 90% of boxing fans have no fvcking clue what 'fighting on the inside' means.

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑29 Jun 2019, 05:59 what? he landed some punches from up close at some points, that's not at all the same as beating him on the inside, the vast majority of that fight, leonard was using his feet to stay out of range and Hearns was stalking him. there was like a 30-60 second period in the 6th round when they were stood in range and Leonard was teeing off (that was after Leonard wobbled Hearns with the left uppercut-cum-hook*), he then chased Hearns for like 2-3 rounds (with hearns making sure he wasn't on the inside with his Roadrunner-act footwork), then Hearns got his wind and legs back, established the jab, fvcked leonard's eye up, and dominated from the outside. then leonard landed that overhand right rd13 i think, hearns wobbled again, and the finish came.

* (1) this was landed when they were boxing at distance- Leonard inside-slipped the jab and came underneath with the left uppercut, NOT from inside fighting
*(2) seemingly 90% of boxing fans have no fvcking clue what 'fighting on the inside' means.

What I meant was that he did fight like he always did. At first, running around wasn't working against Tommy because he was getting tagged and was losing. The left hook that Sugar Ray threw in round 6 changed the whole fight and Tommy was in trouble also in the 7th. Leonard didn't run against Benitez, Price nor Ranzany. But he had to run against someone smaller than he was and that the man wasn't a natural Welterweight. That's the hypocrisy of the media saying "he didn't fight his fight" when in reality he always fought that way. Always. Even in the Olympics, Sugar Ray was always the agressor. I don't want to hear that! He got his ass whupped by Duran and that is the end of story.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑28 Jun 2019, 20:48 He was badly rocked at the end of Rd 2. It's like saying Duran fought the wrong fight in the rematch. It's not always the boxer that dictates terms. Not to mention Padilla was all about the infighting. It's whatever, I think ray had to stand his ground or he would have gotten run over. One of his best performances IMO.

elmer is now saying that Leonard was running from Duran in the first fight! Priceless.

I agree that a boxer or fighter doesn't always get to "dictate terms." But Leonard didn't try to stay outside hardly at all. Time after time he went right at Duran. It's not like he was on his toes and Duranwas cutting off the ring. I guess you could say that a way it was impressive that Leonard was as competitive as he was fighting Duran's fight on the inside. However, he wasn't going to win the fight that way.

Leonard was more likely to get "run over" fighting right in front of Duran. Had he moved around more and been a moving target Duran would have had a lot more trouble getting to him.

In the second fight Leonard seldom tried to get inside against Duran. And he was a lot more successful.

I don't think anything Leonard tried could have won that fight. Elmer is an idiot. In the second fight Leonard was on his toes and Duran was unable to replicate his incredible performance. As I stated before, Padilla let Duran do as he pleased inside, I'm surprised more Leonard fans don't complain about that. The second bout was quite close until Duran quit.

I completely disagree with your first sentence. I completely agree with you second sentence.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑29 Jun 2019, 20:39 I don't think anything Leonard tried could have won that fight. Elmer is an idiot. In the second fight Leonard was on his toes and Duran was unable to replicate his incredible performance. As I stated before, Padilla let Duran do as he pleased inside, I'm surprised more Leonard fans don't complain about that. The second bout was quite close until Duran quit.

Don't follow a fool according to his folly.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑26 Jun 2019, 10:52 He wasn't on the scale of say Joe Frazier. But he always downplayed his losses; he just "wasn't right" etc. Never gave his opponent credit. Actually I guess it was his fans who were the one's with the ridiculous excuses.

What are you on about with this excuse bs. It's well documented that Duran weighed over 200 Ibs a month before "NO MAS".

Yes, what a wonderful excuse. He gained over 50 pounds, then lost it all but just wasn't the same. Even if true, none of that is Durans' fault of course.

Angel Manfredy said he partied all night with his friends before his first pro bout. If true, that loss should be expunged from his record. How's a guy suppose to fight with a hangover ?