BoxRec

Posted: **28 Jun 2019, 20:08**

I like Whyte , i like his attitude anjoy watching his interviews , even like the way he fights they are always entertaining . HOWEVER , theres no way , he should be mandatory , not with the opposition he's faced , he's cherry picked his own fights and demanded to be put has mandatory , it just shows , how the bodies can be manipulated and dictated too .

Would'nt mind betting the Hearn ,- Sulliman conversation went along the lines of , IF we don't get what we want , were NEVER gonna promote a WBC title fight again , and NEVER gonna pay sanctioning fee's again ,,, Then again if Whyte is made mandatory , we will push for it and happilly pay the fee''s .

Posted: **28 Jun 2019, 22:04**

Whyte proven me wrong numerous times, in this fight I favour him significantly (in line with the odds). I hope he doesn’t prove me wrong yet again.

What I’ve seen of Rivas is that he is a swinger who doesn’t measure and puts all his effort into every punch, similar to the crude David Lemieux, notably they have the same trainer.

Whyte I believe will wear the shots, soak them up, control the distance as much he can. It can be difficult when someone is relentlessly swinging. Rivas will slow and Whyte will start piling up the damage from round 4 and beyond.

Posted: **28 Jun 2019, 22:34**

Anyone who's followed boxing for any length of time knows that Dillian Whyte will never become a mandatory title challenger, because there's some weird curse preventing it. So I'm inclined to say that no, the winner of this fight will definitely not become mandatory challenger.

Posted: **29 Jun 2019, 01:38**

Lackeos wrote: ↑28 Jun 2019, 22:34 Anyone who's followed boxing for any length of time knows that Dillian Whyte will never become a mandatory title challenger, because there's some weird curse preventing it. So I'm inclined to say that no, the winner of this fight will definitely not become mandatory challenger.

Is it feasible that Deontay Wilder will be give. an escape route by Mauricio Sulaiman’s organisation, by being elevated to becoming the WBC “Franchise” champion, with the winner of Whyte-Rivas claiming ownership of the “Regular” version of the WBC world title?

This would ensure that Wilder never has to fulfil his mandatory challenger obligations.

Posted: **29 Jun 2019, 02:35**

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑29 Jun 2019, 01:38 Is it feasible that Deontay Wilder will be give. an escape route by Mauricio Sulaiman’s organisation, by being elevated to becoming the WBC “Franchise” champion, with the winner of Whyte-Rivas claiming ownership of the “Regular” version of the WBC world title?

This would ensure that Wilder never has to fulfil his mandatory challenger obligations.

Don't even think that!

The worst possible scenario.

Posted: **29 Jun 2019, 03:55**

coneye wrote: ↑28 Jun 2019, 20:08 I like Whyte , i like his attitude anjoy watching his interviews , even like the way he fights they are always entertaining . HOWEVER , theres no way , he should be mandatory , not with the opposition he's faced , he's cherry picked his own fights and demanded to be put has mandatory , it just shows , how the bodies can be manipulated and dictated too .

Would'nt mind betting the Hearn ,- Sulliman conversation went along the lines of , IF we don't get what we want , were NEVER gonna promote a WBC title fight again , and NEVER gonna pay sanctioning fee's again ,,, Then again if Whyte is made mandatory , we will push for it and happilly pay the fee''s .

Wow, you're not even trying to hide that you're trolling.

I'd love to know who you think is more deserving than Whyte?

Posted: **29 Jun 2019, 04:33**

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑29 Jun 2019, 01:38 Is it feasible that Deontay Wilder will be give. an escape route by Mauricio Sulaiman’s organisation, by being elevated to becoming the WBC “Franchise” champion, with the winner of Whyte-Rivas claiming ownership of the “Regular” version of the WBC world title?

This would ensure that Wilder never has to fulfil his mandatory challenger obligations.

Feasible? More like etched in stone.

Posted: **29 Jun 2019, 06:13**

Don't see it happening. His status as WBC champion is what gives him value. You think DAZN would offer him so much money if they made him "franchise champion"?

Posted: **29 Jun 2019, 06:24**

coneye wrote: ↑28 Jun 2019, 20:08 I like Whyte , i like his attitude anjoy watching his interviews , even like the way he fights they are always entertaining . HOWEVER , theres no way , he should be mandatory , not with the opposition he's faced , he's cherry picked his own fights and demanded to be put has mandatory , it just shows , how the bodies can be manipulated and dictated too .

I agree to an extent, in that he has chosen to fight more lucrative fights at times. But he had already fought an eliminator back in 2016. And Stiverne didn't actually fight a final eliminator.
And then they passed over Whyte (who should have been next in line) and made the Breazeale v Molina a final eliminator after the fact. Breazeale was not ordered to face Molina.

Basically, if the WBC were to be consistent with how they treated Stiverne and Breazeale, the Whyte v Rivas fight will also be for mandatory status.

The below interview very much sounds like Breazeale was most definitely allowed to "cherry pick" his opponent to be a final eliminator:
https://www.givemesport.com/1168606-dom ... lian-whyte

Posted: **29 Jun 2019, 10:40**

I'm curious- what guys has Whyte beaten that actually had a top rating with the WBC when he fought them?

I remember Parker being highly ranked with the WBO but not the WBC, and the likes of Browne, Helenius and Chisora- I don't remember any of them being highly ranked with the sanctioning body.

Posted: **29 Jun 2019, 10:47**

Mandatory schmandatory the real question is who is the franchise hw champ?

Posted: **29 Jun 2019, 15:36**

Nondescript wrote: ↑29 Jun 2019, 10:40 I'm curious- what guys has Whyte beaten that actually had a top rating with the WBC when he fought them?

I remember Parker being highly ranked with the WBO but not the WBC, and the likes of Browne, Helenius and Chisora- I don't remember any of them being highly ranked with the sanctioning body.

Here are the ranking based on the WBC top 40 of the time:

Whyte #13 - Chisora #14 (December 2016 - eliminator)

Whyte #5 - Malcolm Tann #unranked (August #2017)

Whyte #3 - Helenius #16 SILVER (October 2017)

Whyte #1 - Browne #13 (March 2018)

Whyte #1 - Parker #6 (July 2018)

Whyte #1 - Chisora #7 (December 2018)

Very strong resume; I'd argue it's comparable to the calibre Wilder (the champion) was facing at the time

Posted: **29 Jun 2019, 16:08**

Finkel wrote: ↑29 Jun 2019, 15:36 Here are the ranking based on the WBC top 40 of the time:

Whyte #13 - Chisora #14 (December 2016 - eliminator)

Whyte #5 - Malcolm Tann #unranked (August #2017)

Whyte #3 - Helenius #16 SILVER (October 2017)

Whyte #1 - Browne #13 (March 2018)

Whyte #1 - Parker #6 (July 2018)

Whyte #1 - Chisora #7 (December 2018)

Very strong resume; I'd argue it's comparable to the calibre Wilder (the champion) was facing at the time

Nice post

Posted: **29 Jun 2019, 16:39**

KiwiRider wrote: ↑29 Jun 2019, 16:08 Nice post

Thanks

So you know how I said in the previous post that "I'd argue it is comparable to the calibre Wilder (the champion) was facing at the time" So I spent the last 45 minutes, looking into it for shits and giggles.

So I have looked at the ranking of Wilder's opponents, and the fights they had to get them their based on the WBC top 40 rankings of the time. It makes for some ugly reading:

Wilder #C - Chris Arreola #9 (July 2016)

Arreola #13 – Kauffman #unranked (December 2015) NO CONTEST
Arreola #13 – Fredd Kassi #unknown (July 2015) DRAW

Wilder #C – Gerald Washington #8 (February 2017)

Gerald Washington #14 –Ray Austin #unranked (July 2016)
Gerald Washington #18 - Eddie Chambers #unranked (May 2016)

Wilder #C – Bermaine Stiverne #1 (November 2017)

Stiverne #4 – Derric Rossy #unranked (November 2015) - This guy had a record of 30-10-0
Stiverne #C – Wilder #1? (January 2015)

Wilder #C – Ortiz #3 (March 2018)

Ortiz #2 – Daniel Martz #unranked (December 2017)
Ortiz leaves Eddie Hearn (Matchroom)
Ortiz #unranked – Dave Allen #unranked (October 2017)
Ortiz #unranked – Malik Scott #unranked (November 2017)

Wilder #C – Tyson Fury #3 (December 2018)

Fury #7 – Francesco Pianeta #unranked (August 2018)
Fury #unranked – Sefer Seferi #unranked (June 2018)

Whyte (SILVER belt holder) might have actually been facing tougher opposition than Wilder (WBC Champion).
It really looks like the WBC having been using their ranking system to legitimize Wilder's opponents since at least 2016.
Maybe before, but I can't find the records going further back than late 2015.

Posted: **29 Jun 2019, 17:05**

Whoah, I knew it was bad. Seeing it laid out is disturbing.

Posted: **29 Jun 2019, 17:13**

Finkel wrote: ↑29 Jun 2019, 15:36 Here are the ranking based on the WBC top 40 of the time:

Whyte #13 - Chisora #14 (December 2016 - eliminator)

Whyte #5 - Malcolm Tann #unranked (August #2017)

Whyte #3 - Helenius #16 SILVER (October 2017)

Whyte #1 - Browne #13 (March 2018)

Whyte #1 - Parker #6 (July 2018)

Whyte #1 - Chisora #7 (December 2018)

Very strong resume; I'd argue it's comparable to the calibre Wilder (the champion) was facing at the time

So only 1 of them was ranked in the top 5 with the WBC at the time he beat them. Hmm.

Actually scratch that none of them were ranked in the top 5.

Posted: **29 Jun 2019, 17:16**

winning 5 fights vs ranked guys is pretty good as far as earning an abc ranking goes, a lot of guys just pop up without beating anyone ranked. what is rivas ranked?

Posted: **29 Jun 2019, 17:16**

Nondescript wrote: ↑29 Jun 2019, 17:13 So only 1 of them was ranked in the top 5 with the WBC at the time he beat them. Hmm.

And what’s your point? Compare this to Wilder’s other challengers.

Posted: **29 Jun 2019, 17:17**

Finkel wrote: ↑29 Jun 2019, 16:39 Thanks

So you know how I said in the previous post that "I'd argue it is comparable to the calibre Wilder (the champion) was facing at the time" So I spent the last 45 minutes, looking into it for shits and giggles.

So I have looked at the ranking of Wilder's opponents, and the fights they had to get them their based on the WBC top 40 rankings of the time. It makes for some ugly reading:

Wilder #C - Chris Arreola #9 (July 2016)
Arreola #13 – Kauffman #unranked (December 2015) NO CONTEST
Arreola #13 – Fredd Kassi #unknown (July 2015) DRAW
Wilder #C – Gerald Washington #8 (February 2017)
Gerald Washington #14 –Ray Austin #unranked (July 2016)
Gerald Washington #18 - Eddie Chambers #unranked (May 2016)
Wilder #C – Bermaine Stiverne #1 (November 2017)
Stiverne #4 – Derric Rossy #unranked (November 2015) - This guy had a record of 30-10-0
Stiverne #C – Wilder #1? (January 2015)
Wilder #C – Ortiz #3 (March 2018)
Ortiz #2 – Daniel Martz #unranked (December 2017)
Ortiz leaves Eddie Hearn (Matchroom)
Ortiz #unranked – Dave Allen #unranked (October 2017)
Ortiz #unranked – Malik Scott #unranked (November 2017)
Wilder #C – Tyson Fury #3 (December 2018)
Fury #7 – Francesco Pianeta #unranked (August 2018)
Fury #unranked – Sefer Seferi #unranked (June 2018)

Whyte (SILVER belt holder) might have actually been facing tougher opposition than Wilder (WBC Champion).
It really looks like the WBC having been using their ranking system to legitimize Wilder's opponents since at least 2016.
Maybe before, but I can't find the records going further back than late 2015.

Thats a little bit deceving that post because you're not showing what the opponents of Whyte's opponents were ranked at in the WBC when they got there WBC ranking.

So you'd have to do the same for Parker, Browne, Chisora, etc and the ranking of their opponents which led to their ranking, its only fair.

Posted: **29 Jun 2019, 17:19**

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑29 Jun 2019, 17:16 And what’s your point? Compare this to Wilder’s other challengers.

The point is this is why the WBC originally ordered Whyte to have final eliminators with both Ortiz and Breazeale. Beating guys outside of the top 5 in the rankings shouldnt get you a mandatory shot.

Id say the same for Wilder aswell when he came up.

Posted: **29 Jun 2019, 17:19**

well tbf, then your moving the goalposts, from what were they ranked, to what where there opponents ranked. well then what about there opponents opponentns and so on

Posted: **29 Jun 2019, 17:20**

jamamb wrote: ↑29 Jun 2019, 17:16 winning 5 fights vs ranked guys is pretty good as far as earning an abc ranking goes, a lot of guys just pop up without beating anyone ranked. what is rivas ranked?

There's no doubt that Whyte has the best recent resume. But his own big mouth and bad decisions has not helped his situation. Aren't the promoters more responsible than the sanctioning bodies? Seems he has to rely on the ABC's to force the issue and that's not happening.

Posted: **29 Jun 2019, 17:23**

jamamb wrote: ↑29 Jun 2019, 17:19 well tbf, then your moving the goalposts, from what were they ranked, to what where there opponents ranked. well then what about there opponents opponentns and so on

Im not moving the goalposts at all. Finkel did a breakdown of Wilders opponents and what their ranking was and what the ranking of the guys they fought before they fought Wilder. He should do the same for Whyte.

Posted: **29 Jun 2019, 18:13**

Nondescript wrote: ↑29 Jun 2019, 17:23 Im not moving the goalposts at all. Finkel did a breakdown of Wilders opponents and what their ranking was and what the ranking of the guys they fought before they fought Wilder. He should do the same for Whyte.

Whyte has a better recent record than any of the other mandatories for the wbc that Wilder has fought. That is indisputable.

Posted: **29 Jun 2019, 18:15**

ewenhay wrote: ↑29 Jun 2019, 18:13 Whyte has a better recent record than any of the other mandatories for the wbc that Wilder has fought. That is indisputable.

Or AJ, Fury, and ruiz for that matter. Best recent record of all the top 10 HW's I'd say.

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