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Re: Could canelo beat Andy Ruiz?
Posted: 03 Jul 2019, 09:26
by Cyclops
stujones wrote: ↑03 Jul 2019, 08:06
Ruiz vs Ruiz would have been intriguing - John is underated. He had a good chin and would have made Andy work more than Joshua did.... would he have had the stamina? I don't know. John find a way (most of the time) to nullify opponents who seemingly had advantages - whether that was size (Valuev - okay I know he lost officially but many saw him winning, there was also McCline who he legitmately beat), skill - Johnson, Oquendo - he seemed to find a way. He even ran a peak Chagaev very close when over the hill a tad himself.
Aside from Tua - Ruiz's non controvesial loses were against fighters far far superior in skill than Andy Ruiz can dream about. Before we start considering Andy Ruiz an ATG - lets not forget he is 1-1 in this current crop of world class heavyweights (and this current crop is nothing to write home). There is still a legitmate school of thought that Hughie Fury ran Joseph Parker closer than Andy Ruiz did.
John Ruiz record in world class is 5-7-1 - but that is still 4 more wins than Andy Ruiz and of those 7 loses - 4 were deemed close / controvesial (Holyfield, Valuev x 2 and Chagaev) and I am also counting the Toney fight as a lose and not a ND which is the official call. The legitimate non controvsial loses in my eyes were vs Haye (when over the hill), RJJ and Toney.... and those three would have beaten Andy Ruiz comfortably IMO.
Lets just see what Andy Ruiz can do in a rematch before hailing him as something special.
Totally agree. I’ve never watched the fights but John Ruiz split a trilogy right down the middle with Evander Holyfield didn’t he?
Ruiz wasn’t much liked in his career but his record is far from terrible. It’s easy to forget how flipping good RJJ was as well.
Re: Could canelo beat Andy Ruiz?
Posted: 03 Jul 2019, 11:24
by danconnollyeire
Boxerbeetle wrote: ↑02 Jul 2019, 11:44
He’d have to increase his already impressive PED intake significantly, but who knows
Yeah, to Miller levels
Re: Could canelo beat Andy Ruiz?
Posted: 03 Jul 2019, 13:57
by TheGman
stujones wrote: ↑03 Jul 2019, 08:06
Ruiz vs Ruiz would have been intriguing - John is underated. He had a good chin and would have made Andy work more than Joshua did.... would he have had the stamina? I don't know. John find a way (most of the time) to nullify opponents who seemingly had advantages - whether that was size (Valuev - okay I know he lost officially but many saw him winning, there was also McCline who he legitmately beat), skill - Johnson, Oquendo - he seemed to find a way. He even ran a peak Chagaev very close when over the hill a tad himself.
Aside from Tua - Ruiz's non controvesial loses were against fighters far far superior in skill than Andy Ruiz can dream about. Before we start considering Andy Ruiz an ATG - lets not forget he is 1-1 in this current crop of world class heavyweights (and this current crop is nothing to write home). There is still a legitmate school of thought that Hughie Fury ran Joseph Parker closer than Andy Ruiz did.
John Ruiz record in world class is 5-7-1 - but that is still 4 more wins than Andy Ruiz and of those 7 loses - 4 were deemed close / controvesial (Holyfield, Valuev x 2 and Chagaev) and I am also counting the Toney fight as a lose and not a ND which is the official call. The legitimate non controvsial loses in my eyes were vs Haye (when over the hill), RJJ and Toney.... and those three would have beaten Andy Ruiz comfortably IMO.
Lets just see what Andy Ruiz can do in a rematch before hailing him as something special.
Im not saying Andy is a world beater i just think he beats John who was bang average,he was the WBA's version WBO's Chris Eubank,gifted decisions after decisions,not a chance in hell John beat Evander in any of them fights. Yes John was durable but i think Andy would of plasted John to the canvas and im not so sure RRJ would of hand picked Andy Ruiz to challenge for the heavyweight title like he did John if RJJ thought he would of beaten any heavyweight he would of fought Lennox Lewis before or even after John Ruiz. Now James Toney is a different story,this guy is an absolute nut case and would of fought anyone at any weight at any time if they woukd of signed a contract lol he is ine of the toughest guys in our era.
Re: Could canelo beat Andy Ruiz?
Posted: 03 Jul 2019, 17:47
by Autobarn
Andy Ruiz has had two fights of note. I’m seeing a lot of over analysis - and wasted thought. I think the biggest issue is Joshua hasn’t diversified. Still fights like the stereotypical British fighter, stiff, upright, can’t relax. Still has his amateur trainer, etc. Wide open when he’s hurt an opponent, in a hurry, immature in temperament. Whereas Ruiz, obviously has that US gym experience, comfortable inside, more savvy and compact, knows how to relax in there.
John Ruiz was average, one of the worst heavyweight champions. Yes he gave an old Holyfield a hard time. A Holyfield with no more great performances in him. Yet Holyfield essentially knocked him out with a body shot sadly ruled low. Perhaps he was to Holyfield what Jesse James Leija was to Azumah Nelson. Certainly Ruiz was awkward & gave Evander many fits.
Re: Could canelo beat Andy Ruiz?
Posted: 03 Jul 2019, 17:58
by Exoddus
Canelo lost twice to GGG but now he's turned into Superman?
Re: Could canelo beat Andy Ruiz?
Posted: 04 Jul 2019, 07:48
by danconnollyeire
Exoddus wrote: ↑03 Jul 2019, 17:58
Canelo lost twice to GGG but now he's turned into Superman?
Yep the drug taking prick is now the most overrated fighter of all time. People talk like he's an all time great
Why is it, when someone like Larry O is honest about drug taking, he's resigned never be taken seriously again but Canelo slimely uses a fake excuse about meat and he's back fighting for a world title in under a year. If he wasn't Mexico's darling and didn't have his cock worshiped by De La Hoya, he'd have been dumped. Boxing can be an arse sometimes
Plus he's lost every time he's really stepped up. Mayweather, GGG (x2), Lara. I mean, name a world class fighter he's legitimately beat. Just look at his beat wins:
Cotto (should've retired long before)
Khan (lol)
Chavez Jr (never that great)
Jacobs (decent)
Fielding (lol)
Re: Could canelo beat Andy Ruiz?
Posted: 04 Jul 2019, 10:09
by BroughtonRulesRefuge
- Canelo hate, Manny hate, Kbros hate, anyone not of your tribal affiliation, this joint don't never change.
Used to have a guy here in the boxing biz that was used for sparring by Ali bout Canelo's size. Why'd Ali use him?
He was very fast, quick, and good practice for fighters that go low, one of Ali's weaknesses. Good enough friend with Ali that he took him to his apartment for dinner with his family. He used to talk of that low strategy vs bigger guys all the time from practical experience, Jack Dempsey centennial anniversary of the worst beating ever inflicted of Big Jess Willard.
Jacks ring wt 185 same as Canelo's. With some intelligent wt training Canelo could make 200 easy, and it ain't like Andy has great defense, save for AJ don't think he's ever been off his feet.
My conclusion is Canelo could pull it off, but Andy the big fave. given Canelo's been seen on crutches and already had knee surgery a few years back, wears a brace in the ring, he may not be around long. Also need motivation for a big heavy move.
Btw, Ali's buddy got jabbed off by the quilting club biddies who ganged up on him. No need to mention his name as he's still in the biz and don't need any more knitting needles stuck in him.
Re: Could canelo beat Andy Ruiz?
Posted: 04 Jul 2019, 10:34
by Ruthless-RKO
Is he planning on doing a RJJ?
Re: Could canelo beat Andy Ruiz?
Posted: 04 Jul 2019, 10:46
by Terminator666
Love to see Alvarez get beat by anyone but can’t see it happening due to the favourable judging- careful matchmaking and his great chin