BoxRec

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑14 Jul 2019, 17:35

oogiebe wrote: ↑14 Jul 2019, 16:34

I think DDD's power surprised him. He didn't want to be hit anymore. Had no answer to the jab.

Yes, but wading in with both hands with your head down isnt really the right tactics against a huge puncher.

Jury's out on Dubois, he has obvious power, but power is the most overrated attribute in boxing.

I think Gorman was reacting to the power and jab. Agree on DDD needing further development. No need to rush the lad.

Absolutely not. He can bang, but I just don't see THAT kinda potential in him. I'm sure he'll improve, but I can't see him improving to the point of becoming a long reigning Champ. Not sure he ever even wins a world title of any sort.

Too soon to tell.

But what I like about the guy is how level headed he is. He doesn't want to rush things. He wants to truly earn his way to the top. Far too many people got to the top too fast (ie, Anthony Joshua imho) and end up getting exposed.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑14 Jul 2019, 17:38 Absolutely not. He can bang, but I just don't see THAT kinda potential in him. I'm sure he'll improve, but I can't see him improving to the point of becoming a long reigning Champ. Not sure he ever even wins a world title of any sort.

I look at who his competition will be when he is knocking on the door, and it won't be easy. Hrgovic; Makhmudov; Sirenko; Teslenko; Jalolov; Ajagba et al.

oogiebe wrote: ↑14 Jul 2019, 17:44

gilgamesh wrote: ↑14 Jul 2019, 17:38 Absolutely not. He can bang, but I just don't see THAT kinda potential in him. I'm sure he'll improve, but I can't see him improving to the point of becoming a long reigning Champ. Not sure he ever even wins a world title of any sort.

I look at who his competition will be when he is knocking on the door, and it won't be easy. Hrgovic; Makhmudov; Sirenko; Teslenko; Jalolov; Ajagba et al.

I mean I assume if he were to keep winning he'd be getting to title shot level within about 4 or 5 years, but I get the feeling he'll get beaten before that. Which doesn't necessarily mean it'll derail his career entirely, but I kinda have a hard time seeing him get past the Top 15 or lower Top 10 at best.

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑14 Jul 2019, 17:40 Too soon to tell.

But what I like about the guy is how level headed he is. He doesn't want to rush things. He wants to truly earn his way to the top. Far too many people got to the top too fast (ie, Anthony Joshua imho) and end up getting exposed.

Losing doesn't exactly mean you're exposed. You can learn from defeat.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑14 Jul 2019, 17:50

oogiebe wrote: ↑14 Jul 2019, 17:44

I look at who his competition will be when he is knocking on the door, and it won't be easy. Hrgovic; Makhmudov; Sirenko; Teslenko; Jalolov; Ajagba et al.

I mean I assume if he were to keep winning he'd be getting to title shot level within about 4 or 5 years, but I get the feeling he'll get beaten before that. Which doesn't necessarily mean it'll derail his career entirely, but I kinda have a hard time seeing him get past the Top 15 or lower Top 10 at best.

It all depends on how much he can further develop and if his camp doesn't rush him. He's certainly not ready now, so I agree. But I also agree that right now, I don't see greatness in his future. I do like having him around though. Ron Lyle type.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑14 Jul 2019, 17:51

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑14 Jul 2019, 17:40 Too soon to tell.

But what I like about the guy is how level headed he is. He doesn't want to rush things. He wants to truly earn his way to the top. Far too many people got to the top too fast (ie, Anthony Joshua imho) and end up getting exposed.

Losing doesn't exactly mean you're exposed. You can learn from defeat.

You can, yes... But it's the way AJ lost that makes me believe he will not win the rematch with Ruiz (unless Ruiz makes a big mistake tactically) because unlike Lennox Lewis losing on a freak knockout to McCall or Rahman, Joshua was absolutely knocked all over the place and prior to that was out fought, out boxed, by Ruiz (save for the knockdown AJ gave him).

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑14 Jul 2019, 18:02

gilgamesh wrote: ↑14 Jul 2019, 17:51

Losing doesn't exactly mean you're exposed. You can learn from defeat.

You can, yes... But it's the way AJ lost that makes me believe he will not win the rematch with Ruiz (unless Ruiz makes a big mistake tactically) because unlike Lennox Lewis losing on a freak knockout to McCall or Rahman, Joshua was absolutely knocked all over the place and prior to that was out fought, out boxed, by Ruiz (save for the knockdown AJ gave him).

In the case of DDD a loss won't necessarily put him back. He's 21/22 and not 29 with a career of not developing properly like AJ.

I don't see Dubois losing anytime soon. He's got a level head on his shoulders and will not allow himself to be rushed to the top. He'll fight 5+ times at the British title level, then 5+ times at the European level, then 5+ at the top 15-30 level. Baby steps all the way to the top.

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑14 Jul 2019, 18:02

gilgamesh wrote: ↑14 Jul 2019, 17:51

Losing doesn't exactly mean you're exposed. You can learn from defeat.

You can, yes... But it's the way AJ lost that makes me believe he will not win the rematch with Ruiz (unless Ruiz makes a big mistake tactically) because unlike Lennox Lewis losing on a freak knockout to McCall or Rahman, Joshua was absolutely knocked all over the place and prior to that was out fought, out boxed, by Ruiz (save for the knockdown AJ gave him).

It'll definitely be interesting to see what AJ does in the rematch. I think he'd be best served to try to outbox Andy from the outside, and tie him up every time they start to exchange in close. In other words, make it a boring fight. That'd be his ticket to winning. It wouldn't be a spectacular way to bounce back from defeat, but it'd get him his belts back. We'll see if he can pull it off. If he wins the rematch I suspect this will be exactly the way he'll be needing to go about it.

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑14 Jul 2019, 18:09 I don't see Dubois losing anytime soon. He's got a level head on his shoulders and will not allow himself to be rushed to the top. He'll fight 5+ times at the British title level, then 5+ times at the European level, then 5+ at the top 15-30 level. Baby steps all the way to the top.

Yeah there's no need to rush him. British champion at 21 is a good achievement at heavyweight. Let him move up the levels as and when he's ready.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑14 Jul 2019, 18:15

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑14 Jul 2019, 18:02

You can, yes... But it's the way AJ lost that makes me believe he will not win the rematch with Ruiz (unless Ruiz makes a big mistake tactically) because unlike Lennox Lewis losing on a freak knockout to McCall or Rahman, Joshua was absolutely knocked all over the place and prior to that was out fought, out boxed, by Ruiz (save for the knockdown AJ gave him).

It'll definitely be interesting to see what AJ does in the rematch. I think he'd be best served to try to outbox Andy from the outside, and tie him up every time they start to exchange in close. In other words, make it a boring fight. That'd be his ticket to winning. It wouldn't be a spectacular way to bounce back from defeat, but it'd get him his belts back. We'll see if he can pull it off. If he wins the rematch I suspect this will be exactly the way he'll be needing to go about it.

It sounds good in theory, but I don't think the big man can fight going backwards. When he does it's in a straight line. The guy has the mobility of a skyscraper compared to Ruiz.

For once we agree.

Joshuas always fought on rails. Ruiz has better footwork and much faster feet.

It was clear in recent training videos just how difficult joshua finds it to fight going backwards.

Joshua also needs to lose a lot of that bulk, he's carrying 15 pounds of pointless bulk, he would probably punch harder if he wasnt so musclebound too.

Dubois v Gorman should not have been a main event.

pretty dull fight.

Gorman was pathetic.....total hype job

dubois is very overhyped and you can see how he'lll gas properly against better opposition.

i'd get Dubois v joyce on very quickly as well....get this all out of the way.

ewenhay wrote: ↑14 Jul 2019, 18:16

HomicideHenry wrote: ↑14 Jul 2019, 18:09 I don't see Dubois losing anytime soon. He's got a level head on his shoulders and will not allow himself to be rushed to the top. He'll fight 5+ times at the British title level, then 5+ times at the European level, then 5+ at the top 15-30 level. Baby steps all the way to the top.

Yeah there's no need to rush him. British champion at 21 is a good achievement at heavyweight. Let him move up the levels as and when he's ready.

It's an achievement to be laurelled for sure. I'm still not.convinced about him. Gorman fought the worst way possible- credit to DD for the win, though I would have given more credit if Gorman had stuck to his boxing.
The biggest concern for me regarding DD is; the guys moving up like him in the under 30's (IMO) present a lot of challenges- more so than say, the current guys around the top #8-#20.
That is a concern in a few years as I see the HW division moving away from its weak second tier

Too soon to tell, as some boxers of his generation have not necessarily turned pro yet, and there is much development still to be done (especially with someone as preposterously young as Dubois). Among heavyweights age 24 and younger, there's Hughie Fury (24), Daniel Dubois (21), Petar Milas (23), Nathan Gorman (23), Vladyslav Sirenko (24), Darmani Rock (23), Fabio Wardley (24), Arslan Yallyev (22), Albon Pervizaj (23), Tomas Salek (21), Nkosi Solomon (24), Djamel-Dini Aboudou (23), Hussein Ishaish (23), and Patrick Mailata (24). 25-year-olds include Efe Ajagba, Tom Schwarz, Jermaine Franklin, Bakhodir Jalolov, and Oleksandr Zakhozhyi.

I'm pretty confident that, in the long run, Hughie and Dubois will be the most successful fighters of this age group.

Lackeos wrote: ↑14 Jul 2019, 20:33 Too soon to tell, as some boxers of his generation have not necessarily turned pro yet, and there is much development still to be done (especially with someone as preposterously young as Dubois). Among heavyweights age 24 and younger, there's Hughie Fury (24), Daniel Dubois (21), Petar Milas (23), Nathan Gorman (23), Vladyslav Sirenko (24), Darmani Rock (23), Fabio Wardley (24), Arslan Yallyev (22), Albon Pervizaj (23), Tomas Salek (21), Nkosi Solomon (24), Djamel-Dini Aboudou (23), Hussein Ishaish (23), and Patrick Mailata (24).

I'm pretty confident that, in the long run, Hughie and Dubois will be the most successful fighters of this age group.

Hughie is crap. I do like DDD and Sirenko, Also some others you don't mention.

oogiebe wrote: ↑14 Jul 2019, 20:48

Lackeos wrote: ↑14 Jul 2019, 20:33 Too soon to tell, as some boxers of his generation have not necessarily turned pro yet, and there is much development still to be done (especially with someone as preposterously young as Dubois). Among heavyweights age 24 and younger, there's Hughie Fury (24), Daniel Dubois (21), Petar Milas (23), Nathan Gorman (23), Vladyslav Sirenko (24), Darmani Rock (23), Fabio Wardley (24), Arslan Yallyev (22), Albon Pervizaj (23), Tomas Salek (21), Nkosi Solomon (24), Djamel-Dini Aboudou (23), Hussein Ishaish (23), and Patrick Mailata (24).

I'm pretty confident that, in the long run, Hughie and Dubois will be the most successful fighters of this age group.

Hughie is crap. I do like DDD and Sirenko, Also some others you don't mention.

Yeah, Hughie "is crap." After all, he dropped a MD to Joseph Parker. Whoever you have in mind that I didn't list would probably fail to survive 6 rounds with Parker. Whatever reason is causing you to think Hughie isn't good, you aren't being objective.

Lackeos wrote: ↑14 Jul 2019, 20:52

oogiebe wrote: ↑14 Jul 2019, 20:48

Hughie is crap. I do like DDD and Sirenko, Also some others you don't mention.

Yeah, Hughie "is crap." After all, he dropped a MD to Joseph Parker. Whoever you have in mind that I didn't list would probably fail to survive 6 rounds with Parker. Whatever reason is causing you to think Hughie isn't good, you aren't being objective.

Oh I'm as objective as they come. If I have a bias, I'll mention it in my post. But Hughie isn't good, and I don't think he'll ever be good. Whatever it is that makes you feel otherwise maybe isn't objective as you say. Did you also ride Gorman before he was ko'd by DDD?

oogiebe wrote: ↑14 Jul 2019, 21:00

Lackeos wrote: ↑14 Jul 2019, 20:52
Yeah, Hughie "is crap." After all, he dropped a MD to Joseph Parker. Whoever you have in mind that I didn't list would probably fail to survive 6 rounds with Parker. Whatever reason is causing you to think Hughie isn't good, you aren't being objective.

Oh I'm as objective as they come. If I have a bias, I'll mention it in my post. But Hughie isn't good, and I don't think he'll ever be good. Whatever it is that makes you feel otherwise maybe isn't objective as you say. Did you also ride Gorman before he was ko'd by DDD?

Dubois and Gorman were both two of my prospects. One of them beat the other. They couldn't both win.

Btw, my bias for Hughie is the reality that he's already competed on even terms against a top 10 professional, which is something never accomplished by any of your as-of-yet unspecified prospects. He also fared better against Pulev than Chisora did. Sorry that I'm biased by real life performances that really took place in a boxing ring. I don't know what sub-200-ranked prospects you think are better than Hughie, but they definitely don't have any real world performances that were this good. Who is your unmentioned prospect that's so good? Is it Jay MacFarlane? Willis Meehan? Artem Suslenkov? Marian Dzupka? Jose Medina? Naylor Ball? Kamil Bodzioch? Peter Kadiru? Granit Shala?

"Will Daniel Dubois become the next great champion ?"

Oh no will this now supersede all those "Is Joshua the greatest heavyweight of all time?" threads?

He's never even fought anyone in the top 50! Gorman was hyped up to the max for last night's fight.

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑14 Jul 2019, 17:35

oogiebe wrote: ↑14 Jul 2019, 16:34

I think DDD's power surprised him. He didn't want to be hit anymore. Had no answer to the jab.

Yes, but wading in with both hands with your head down isnt really the right tactics against a huge puncher.

Jury's out on Dubois, he has obvious power, but power is the most overrated attribute in boxing.

Yes that is just what Gorman was doing. He looks like he has a hard punch but it generally helps when you're looking at where you're aiming!

jamesmcdonnell wrote: ↑14 Jul 2019, 19:10 For once we agree.

Joshuas always fought on rails. Ruiz has better footwork and much faster feet.

It was clear in recent training videos just how difficult joshua finds it to fight going backwards.

Joshua also needs to lose a lot of that bulk, he's carrying 15 pounds of pointless bulk, he would probably punch harder if he wasnt so musclebound too.

And they say miracles don't happen

Yes he needs to focus on cardio & mobility more, that'd cut back on all that unnecessary bulk. He needs fluidity.

Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑14 Jul 2019, 21:10 "Will Daniel Dubois become the next great champion ?"

Oh no will this now supersede all those "Is Joshua the greatest heavyweight of all time?" threads?

He's never even fought anyone in the top 50! Gorman was hyped up to the max for last night's fight.

I agree 100%. LMAO!