BoxRec

Bodyshot3 wrote: ↑15 Jul 2019, 15:26 Pirog is a good shout and a real pity we did not see more of him.

Thinking about Brit fighters there was Henry Cooper's natural propensity to get cut anyway and then the fact that "back in the day" he'd probably been out fighting a relatively short time later and things had not fully healed.

Cooper called all that blood which poured off his face 'claret' and was typically stoic-humorous about it.....but I still think those unhealed cuts cost him dearly and he might have done a bit more.

Calzaghe's excellent book "No Ordinary Joe" made me wince....

….Joe writes candidly about the pain, frustration and challenge of being a decent puncher who has to come to terms with the fact his hands are essentially totally knackered just when he has become a player on the world title scene.

A good book in terms of understanding Joe and also how prize-fighting can make a young man old almost overnight.

I enjoyed his book too. I wish he'd have done a revised edition with chapters on making his 20th defense, the Kessler fight, the Hopkins and Jones fights. His hands were ruined from early on. It was disappointing how stop-start his career became because of them and they caused some of the boring fights he had and his not being able to do proper sparring. Testament to his mind and his ability that he was able to turn it into a strength and he got the greatest accomplishments in the last two years of his career.

Agreed chrisjs1985...…..Calzaghe over-achieved considering he lost a very useful weapon so relatively early.
He was fortunate to have other assets to fall back on and being a smart and very determined guy.

I do wonder whether what would have happened if his hands stayed good and he could really punch hard and with complete confidence; weirdly I don't think it would have resulted in a better career.

Bodyshot3 wrote: ↑26 Jul 2019, 14:31 Agreed chrisjs1985...…..Calzaghe over-achieved considering he lost a very useful weapon so relatively early.
He was fortunate to have other assets to fall back on and being a smart and very determined guy.

I do wonder whether what would have happened if his hands stayed good and he could really punch hard and with complete confidence; weirdly I don't think it would have resulted in a better career.

I think he was such an improvisational fighter and a talented one that he would have likely ended up with the same end career. Undefeated and hall of fame first ballot. Maybe he'd just have 3-4 more wins, a higher KO % and probably an extra big win or two. His power likely was never going to be the type of take out the likes of Kessler and Hopkins anyway so he'd have known to resort to those fights. He had the skills in his locker always but he just learned over time and with experience and confidence.

Good points Chris and I think you could well be right...….

…..some of those dull defences against moderate guys could have been over far quicker and Joe would not have so many doubters and naysayers.

But just as a discussion point; Joe when he could really punch was quite hot-headed and got a bit carried away and I do think it was better that he ultimately fell back on those more savvy skills he had at his disposal.

As you said.....bombing-out Hopkins was probably not an option and it was better to outfox the old warrior.

Bodyshot3 wrote: ↑26 Jul 2019, 14:47 Good points Chris and I think you could well be right...….

…..some of those dull defences against moderate guys could have been over far quicker and Joe would not have so many doubters and naysayers.

But just as a discussion point; Joe when he could really punch was quite hot-headed and got a bit carried away and I do think it was better that he ultimately fell back on those more savvy skills he had at his disposal.

As you said.....bombing-out Hopkins was probably not an option and it was better to outfox the old warrior.

I think against Hopkins he really didn't fight a good fight. Hopkins did seem more interested in making Calzaghe look bad and surviving more than winning though. I think Hopkins relied on getting a decision because it was on US soil and promoted by his company. He looked like he wanted to quit at times. Calzaghe started slowly and sort of made his mind up that Hopkins won't live with the pace but can't be taken out easily so he essentially just outworked him. How people had Hopkins winning four rounds in that one I'll never know.

Calzaghe always looked excellent when the opponent came to win - Eubank, Woodhall, Sheika, Brewer, Lacy, Kessler for example but when the opponent came to just take part then the fights were dull - Thornberry, Starie, Jiminez, Ashira etc;

I thought he handled the nightmare man Hopkins as well as anyone could........after that admittedly silly start.
Hopkins made heaps of decent people look inept and daft.

It was his first US fight after a long career and the fact that he eventually boxed smart and pinched the rounds from an expert round-pincher was to his immense credit.

But I would also have loved to have get Thornberry and Starie out of there and properly slotted Manfredo with a KO shot.

Personally. I thought the Eubank fight remains the signature win and I loved the way he humbled Lacy.

Good to chat fella

I couldn't believe anyone thought Joe/hops was controversial. He did almost make him quit. I think I had it 8-3-1. I learned my lesson with lacy. Chris, were you with me at max with Joe handily during that Kessler craze?

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑26 Jul 2019, 15:34 I couldn't believe anyone thought Joe/hops was controversial. He did almost make him quit. I think I had it 8-3-1. I learned my lesson with lacy. Chris, were you with me at max with Joe handily during that Kessler craze?

Yes, I remember I was like one of only 2-3 members who had him to beat Lacy. I couldn't believe the hype or Lacy or the little regard of Calzaghe. One guy (forget his screen name) Bill came over and was expecting a blowout. I met him for beers and some Nando's the night before the fight. I put a bunch of money on Joe at the bookies. The Kessler fight I saw as 50/50 though I'll admit even though I've always been one of Calzaghe's biggest advocates.

Those are probably my two fondest fights I attended in Britain. Everything about them.

chrisjs1985 wrote: ↑26 Jul 2019, 16:32

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑26 Jul 2019, 15:34 I couldn't believe anyone thought Joe/hops was controversial. He did almost make him quit. I think I had it 8-3-1. I learned my lesson with lacy. Chris, were you with me at max with Joe handily during that Kessler craze?

Yes, I remember I was like one of only 2-3 members who had him to beat Lacy. I couldn't believe the hype or Lacy or the little regard of Calzaghe. One guy (forget his screen name) Bill came over and was expecting a blowout. I met him for beers and some Nando's the night before the fight. I put a bunch of money on Joe at the bookies. The Kessler fight I saw as 50/50 though I'll admit even though I've always been one of Calzaghe's biggest advocates.

Those are probably my two fondest fights I attended in Britain. Everything about them.

I confidently predicted calzaghe wouldn't even post to fight lacy! Lol, I gave Kessler no chance. Different levels.

James J Jeffries had a lot of injury issues earlier in his career.

BitPlayer wrote: ↑26 Jul 2019, 20:23 James J Jeffries had a lot of injury issues earlier in his career.

I never knew that. Like what?

The great Thomas Hearns had injuries of his right hand.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑26 Jul 2019, 21:23 The great Thomas Hearns had injuries of his right hand.

When other than Marvin?

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑26 Jul 2019, 22:28

elmersalsa wrote: ↑26 Jul 2019, 21:23 The great Thomas Hearns had injuries of his right hand.

When other than Marvin?

When he fought the great Wilfred Benitez and James McCracken. He also broke his right hand with Mark Medal in his last super Welterweight title defense in '86.