BoxRec

Posted: **08 Aug 2019, 10:58**

Jerry Martin. Had three titles shots against great fighters; Eddie Mustapha Muhammad, Dwight Braxton, Qawi, and Mathew Saad Muhammad. He got hosed against Saad Muhammad.

Posted: **08 Aug 2019, 11:41**

Posted: **08 Aug 2019, 12:31**

He was winning the fight everywhere but the judges scorecards. Then the referee jumped in with a ridiculous stoppage.

Posted: **08 Aug 2019, 12:50**

Chisora maybe? When you consider who has won heavyweight titles in recent years he isn't a bad shout...

Posted: **08 Aug 2019, 13:00**

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑08 Aug 2019, 12:31 He was winning the fight everywhere but the judges scorecards. Then the referee jumped in with a ridiculous stoppage.

From my recollection It was a quick stoppage, he wasn't clearly winning (definitely started fast)or looking like he was going to win. Haven't watched it in ages though.

Posted: **08 Aug 2019, 15:55**

Caractacus wrote: ↑07 Aug 2019, 18:31 Jerry Quarry and Earnie Shavers.

You've got to feel for those guys being around in the 70s.

It's the one decade where you needed to be a HOFer to be HW champion, particularly the early to mid 70s.

It went downhill when Foreman left, Frazier became washed up and Ali got old.

Posted: **08 Aug 2019, 17:58**

jimglen wrote: ↑08 Aug 2019, 02:47
Bodyshot3 wrote: ↑07 Aug 2019, 15:11 From a UK perspective.

Alan Rudkin ….mentioned up the thread
Mike Watson
Colin Jones
Kirk Laing
Herol Graham
Chris and Kevin Finnegan
Dave Boy Green
Carl Johanneson
Martin Murray
don't forget BERT GILROY... completely Shut Out of the title scene from 1941 - 1948, though No.1 Contender at middleweight and then L-HW from 39 - 48.

also tied to BOTH McAvoy & Roderick who are likewise mentioned in this thread, as well as McGowan who Bert couched and is seen in Walter's corner when wee Walter beat Burunni for the title.

Gilroy Facebook page with hundreds of reports, pics, programs ratings and info -https://www.facebook.com/pages/category ... 766487621/

Jim

You have been saying for many years that Bert Gilroy was world class, that he was the most cheated athlete in British sporting history and now you are adding his name to the list of the greatest boxers never to win a world title.

I disagree.

He was a very good domestic fighter, nothing more.

Thus far, your claims for Bert have gone unchecked. I have nothing against Bert, or you for that matter, but you really cannot keep rewriting history in this way. He was a damned good fighter, and he didn't get the breaks, like many others. But in no way was he as good as you keep saying he was

Sorry pal

Miles Templeton

Posted: **08 Aug 2019, 18:39**

hey Miles I am only saying what is written, recorded and available in hundreds of reports - Bert WAS No.1 Contender, FACT...

he was refused title shots while still undefeated and No.1 for a 6 year run up to early 1943, fact, he was still refused title shots up to and including 1948. other fighters were chosen over him and ahead of him while he was still ranked ahead of them in the UK and/or Ring ratings of British World class fighters, 5 of 10 years whole classifications higher than all the rest.

I know people want me just to ignore ALL these Reports, just because They Do, but How Can I when they are all the there in the public domain.

I also know some people don't like that for patriotic reasons, but that's their problem, not mine, nor Bert's.

I respect your views and I know you have been hesitant to except from the start, but again why should I, and 'others' ignore all that Written Factual History because of National Pride.

You wouldn't and neither would anybody else Miles and again neither will I.

Bert Gilroy brings into question 5 British Legacies from arguably the single greatest period in Boxing history and that's what a few people can't handle, but the reports are their for the Public to view.

Mills NEVER defended his title in 8 years Miles, 8 years not once, you know that and that in it'self is suspect, never mind ALL the other Reports, Ratings, Title Status, being passed over, yes Recorded Statement and all such wonderful morsels of Recorded History.

Sorry, but until the Recorded Print gets wiped out, How Can I, or anyone else ignore them.

Posted: **08 Aug 2019, 18:55**

jimglen wrote: ↑08 Aug 2019, 18:39 hey Miles I am only saying what is written, recorded and available in hundreds of reports - Bert WAS No.1 Contender, FACT...

he was refused title shots while still undefeated and No.1 for a 6 year run up to early 1943, fact, he was still refused title shots up to and including 1948. other fighters were chosen over him and ahead of him while he was still ranked ahead of them in the UK and/or Ring ratings of British World class fighters, 5 of 10 years whole classifications higher than all the rest.

I know people want me just to ignore ALL these Reports, just because They Do, but How Can I when they are all the there in the public domain.

I also know some people don't like that for patriotic reasons, but that's their problem, not mine, nor Bert's.

I respect your views and I know you have been hesitant to except from the start, but again why should I, and 'others' ignore all that Written Factual History because of National Pride.

You wouldn't and neither would anybody else Miles and again neither will I.

Bert Gilroy brings into question 5 British Legacies from arguably the single greatest period in Boxing history and that's what a few people can't handle, but the reports are their for the Public to view.

Mills NEVER defended his title in 8 years Miles, 8 years not once, you know that and that in it'self is suspect, never mind ALL the other Reports, Ratings, Title Status, being passed over, yes Recorded Statement and all such wonderful morsels of Recorded History.

Sorry, but until the Recorded Print gets wiped out, How Can I, or anyone else ignore them.

Why do you bring up patriotism and national pride? What are you referring to?

Lots of men were ranked number one in Britain and never got a shot at a British title. I could give you a long list of boxers who achieved this and many of them you won't have even heard of

I repeat. Bert Gilroy was a very good domestic level British fighter and nothing more.

If I was to draw up a list of the top 100 British fighters of the twentieth century then I am afraid Bert's name would not be in there. Not even close.

For you to place his name in this thread, which is about the best fighters never to win a world title, needs to be challenged. As do a lot of your claims.

Miles Templeton

Posted: **08 Aug 2019, 19:05**

Fair enough, but it's just Circles, the Reports are there, they can all be checked from 13 years of Ratings, to dozens of Reports about Gilroy being the Official Title Challenger, Reports of Bert being Passed Over, Reports of Robbed decisions and on and on and on.

Fair enough Miles but the Written History is there.

we can agree to disagree, but to an educated person would not make statements that aren't backed, and that's the beautiful thing, they ARE There, Available and Written 10, 15 and 20 years before we were even Born.

So I respect you disagreeing, but I CAN'T IGNORE the Written Print/History.

cheers Miles.

Posted: **08 Aug 2019, 19:51**

jimglen wrote: ↑08 Aug 2019, 19:05 Fair enough, but it's just Circles, the Reports are there, they can all be checked from 13 years of Ratings, to dozens of Reports about Gilroy being the Official Title Challenger, Reports of Bert being Passed Over, Reports of Robbed decisions and on and on and on.

Fair enough Miles but the Written History is there.

we can agree to disagree, but to an educated person would not make statements that aren't backed, and that's the beautiful thing, they ARE There, Available and Written 10, 15 and 20 years before we were even Born.

So I respect you disagreeing, but I CAN'T IGNORE the Written Print/History.

cheers Miles.

Ok let's get on to facts then. You are stating that everything is there and cannot be ignored. Let's start with the ratings. You have said there are thirteen years of them.

Which ratings are these, and when and where were they published?

Miles Templeton

Posted: **09 Aug 2019, 12:31**

David Izon

Posted: **09 Aug 2019, 12:32**

Jemal Hinton
Akeem Anifowoshe
David Tua
George Chuvalo
Ike Ibeabuchi
Sam Langford
Donovan Ruddock
Augie Sanchez
Jerry Quarry
Earnie Shavers
Sergey Kobozev
Denis Shafikov
Joe Mesi
Alexander Bakhtin
Gerry Cooney
Antonio Amaya
Hector Carrasquilla
Edison Miranda
Librado Andrade
Alexander Makhmutov
Carl Williams
Bert Cooper
Lottie Mwale
Jerry Martin
Martin Vargas
Bernardo Caraballo
Angel Manfredy
Ron Lyle
Pat Ford
Bennie Briscoe
Eugene Hart
Herol Graham
Oba Carr
Antonio Pitalua
Lamar Parks
Michael Watson
Martin Murray
Jimmy Young
Andrew Golota
Rocky Juarez

Posted: **09 Aug 2019, 14:57**

Dave Shade
Georgie Benton
Henry Hank
Holly Mims
Manny Gonzalez

Posted: **09 Aug 2019, 16:41**

scartissue wrote: ↑09 Aug 2019, 14:57 Dave Shade
Georgie Benton
Henry Hank
Holly Mims
Manny Gonzalez

That's a fine group of sensational and excellent fighters right there. The 50s and 60s decade was very hard for a boxer to win a world championship. There was too much competition those days.

Posted: **09 Aug 2019, 19:14**

elmersalsa wrote: ↑09 Aug 2019, 16:41
scartissue wrote: ↑09 Aug 2019, 14:57 Dave Shade
Georgie Benton
Henry Hank
Holly Mims
Manny Gonzalez
That's a fine group of sensational and excellent fighters right there. The 50s and 60s decade was very hard for a boxer to win a world championship. There was too much competition those days.

and far less belts.

Posted: **09 Aug 2019, 19:46**

I'm boxing for the wbu semi pro world title
Boom

Posted: **12 Aug 2019, 15:44**

Woldemar wrote: ↑09 Aug 2019, 12:31 David Izon

One of the greats!

Posted: **12 Aug 2019, 15:49**

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑12 Aug 2019, 15:44
Woldemar wrote: ↑09 Aug 2019, 12:31 David Izon
One of the greats!

My lord!

Posted: **13 Aug 2019, 13:41**

Would Edner Cherry (37-7, 19 KO's) qualify in this thread? I'm not sure if Cherry is officially retired, however he has a pretty impressive resume.

Edner Cherry :

https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/46852

Posted: **17 Aug 2019, 10:33**

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑07 Aug 2019, 08:23 He wasn't one of the very best, but Ruben Castillo had a rough road to attempt. Howard Davis was a personal favorite along with Jesse Burnett. Jesse schooled conteh, the UK crowd booed that decision.

Imagine having to defeat Sanchez, Arguello or Chavez to win a title? Tough task indeed.

Juan LaPorte was red hot at the time of their meeting and and beat up Ruben in a fight I thought Castillo would win. He lost badly that day.

Castillo was a really good fighter and the one example I use when the subject of good fighters that came along at the worst possible time.

Posted: **18 Aug 2019, 09:49**

Esquire wrote: ↑17 Aug 2019, 10:33
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑07 Aug 2019, 08:23 He wasn't one of the very best, but Ruben Castillo had a rough road to attempt. Howard Davis was a personal favorite along with Jesse Burnett. Jesse schooled conteh, the UK crowd booed that decision.
Imagine having to defeat Sanchez, Arguello or Chavez to win a title? Tough task indeed.

Juan LaPorte was red hot at the time of their meeting and and beat up Ruben in a fight I thought Castillo would win. He lost badly that day.

Castillo was a really good fighter and the one example I use when the subject of good fighters that came along at the worst possible time.

I know what you mean. I too felt Castillo was a shoo-in to win the title when he went up against LaPorte. And he did have it rough with the guys he went up against who were sitting on the throne at the time. I also think of Hector Thompson, whom I mentioned in an earlier post. He had 2 title shots and they were against Roberto Duran and Antonio Cervantes. Just bad luck when he came along.

Posted: **18 Aug 2019, 09:55**

Some of these names here look more like a favorite boxer list.

To put Joe Mesi and Eugene Cyclone Hart (both of whom I liked very much BTW) on the same list with Sam Langford is just wrong.

Posted: **20 Aug 2019, 00:47**

This would have to be DAVEY DAY the real uncrowned champion as Canzoneri, Amber's, Zivic, Jenkins, duck him.
The N.B.A stripped Lou Amber's of his title for not fighting Davey Day. Henry Armstrong was scheduled to fight the winner of the Pedro Montanez vs. Davey Day match. Day wins by tko and Armstrong duck Davey and fought the softened up Montanez compliments of Davey Day instead. Armstrong and Amber's were offered $35,000 to fight Davey Day in return match for the Title and both turn it down.

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