BoxRec

dagilechia wrote: ↑19 Aug 2019, 01:31

Lackeos wrote: ↑18 Aug 2019, 18:49
If you skip the #1-rated fighter and add-up everyone else in the top 21, you'll get less random results.

The idea of skipping #1 sounds weird but i get your point. I will check it out in next days.

Lackeos wrote: ↑20 Aug 2019, 01:49

dagilechia wrote: ↑19 Aug 2019, 01:31

The idea of skipping #1 sounds weird but i get your point. I will check it out in next days.

Basically in statistics, we sometimes choose to toss-out outliers. Calculating outliers the proper way can be complicated, but what I've suggested is a lot easier. It helps eliminate the dominant misleading effect of extreme outliers like Gassiev.

Example:
Country 1's top ratings: 900, 7, 6, 6, 6, 5, 5, 5, 5, 4
Country 2's top ratings: 105, 96, 88, 86, 84, 81, 77, 76, 74, 73

Which country looks like more of a boxing country (country 2)? Does including outliers better reflect that, or does tossing-out outliers better reflect that?

dagilechia wrote: ↑20 Aug 2019, 02:36

Lackeos wrote: ↑20 Aug 2019, 01:49
Basically in statistics, we sometimes choose to toss-out outliers. Calculating outliers the proper way can be complicated, but what I've suggested is a lot easier. It helps eliminate the dominant misleading effect of extreme outliers like Gassiev.

Example:
Country 1's top ratings: 900, 7, 6, 6, 6, 5, 5, 5, 5, 4
Country 2's top ratings: 105, 96, 88, 86, 84, 81, 77, 76, 74, 73

Which country looks like more of a boxing country (country 2)? Does including outliers better reflect that, or does tossing-out outliers better reflect that?

It depends. If for example small nation like Latvia (population: <2M) have 1 top class fighter and huge nation like China have 3 top class and 5 solid fighters it doesn't mean that China is more of a boxing nation.. Your method is good and reflects reality better but its probably a Little bit unfair for small Nations that cant really have more than 1-2 good boxers. I will create a ranking basing on Your method and we'll see how the list will look like.

Lackeos wrote: ↑20 Aug 2019, 03:11

dagilechia wrote: ↑20 Aug 2019, 02:36
It depends. If for example small nation like Latvia (population: <2M) have 1 top class fighter and huge nation like China have 3 top class and 5 solid fighters it doesn't mean that China is more of a boxing nation.. Your method is good and reflects reality better but its probably a Little bit unfair for small Nations that cant really have more than 1-2 good boxers. I will create a ranking basing on Your method and we'll see how the list will look like.

Well if that's what you're going for, then the next step, after tossing-out the #1 fighter, is divide total rating points by population.

conan_the_cribber wrote: ↑19 Aug 2019, 09:16 Interesting post dag.....thanks for doing the maths.

Best Coast wrote: ↑19 Aug 2019, 18:03 Great work amigo!! I like stats like that!!

gregregegg wrote: ↑18 Aug 2019, 11:44 Interesting list, top 20 counted is probly a good number but it would be interesting to see how the list changes with top 10 or top 5. Help the smaller boxing nations I imagine. Such as Cuba and nz

I imagine each country has most of its people coming from predominantly a weight range i.e thaland would be 105-122. Same with Japan. Other countries like nz would be better in higher weights like cruiser and heavy.

I wonder what the list would look like if it was each nation's top 2 from each weight added up for the most diverse boxing nations.

dagilechia wrote: ↑21 Aug 2019, 04:00 So i have made a ranking proportioned according to the population of the ranked nations. I have used the method suggested by Lackeos. I guess it would made more sense if taken top 50 per country, probably taking only top 20 is unfair to the big nations, but the results are decent anyway i think. I have calculated the results only for countries ranked in the previous top 50, the only exception is Finland (previously ranked #51) instead of Lithuania because the latter doesn't have 21 active pro fighters.

my method was:

100.000.000 / Country population = A
(previous rating - #1 fighter's rating) + #21 fighter's rating = B
A x B = rating of a country proportioned according to the population

1. Puerto Rico 61174
2. Namibia 21278
3. Cuba 19061
4. Nicaragua 16703
5. Dominican Republic 15349
6. Ireland 13838
7. Panama 13542
8. United Kingdom 11863
9. Armenia 11788
10. Ukraine 7966
11. Australia 7195
12. Latvia 7035
13. Mexico 6157
14. Denmark 5867
15. Kazakhstan 5061
16. Argentina 4964
17. Canada 4825
18. Poland 4403
19. Venezuela 4017
20. Croatia 3989
21. South Africa 3955
22. New Zealand 3939
23. Belarus 3865
24. Sweden 3809
25. United States 3622
26. Russia 3483
27. Japan 3385
28. France 3342
29. Belgium 3232
30. Germany 2825
31. Philippines 2690
32. Finland 2466
33. Hungary 2297
34. Switzerland 2185
35. Uzbekistan 2181
36. Ghana 2022
37. Spain 2018
38. Romania 1759
39. Thailand 1603
40. Colombia 1567
41. Italy 1096
42. Bulgaria 473
43. South Korea 352
44. Tanzania 314
45. Turkey 233
46. Democratic Republic of the Congo 200
47. Brazil 141
48. Nigeria 124
49. China 51
50. Indonesia 48

Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑21 Aug 2019, 12:09

dagilechia wrote: ↑21 Aug 2019, 04:00 So i have made a ranking proportioned according to the population of the ranked nations. I have used the method suggested by Lackeos. I guess it would made more sense if taken top 50 per country, probably taking only top 20 is unfair to the big nations, but the results are decent anyway i think. I have calculated the results only for countries ranked in the previous top 50, the only exception is Finland (previously ranked #51) instead of Lithuania because the latter doesn't have 21 active pro fighters.

my method was:

100.000.000 / Country population = A
(previous rating - #1 fighter's rating) + #21 fighter's rating = B
A x B = rating of a country proportioned according to the population

1. Puerto Rico 61174
2. Namibia 21278
3. Cuba 19061
4. Nicaragua 16703
5. Dominican Republic 15349
6. Ireland 13838
7. Panama 13542
8. United Kingdom 11863
9. Armenia 11788
10. Ukraine 7966
11. Australia 7195
12. Latvia 7035
13. Mexico 6157
14. Denmark 5867
15. Kazakhstan 5061
16. Argentina 4964
17. Canada 4825
18. Poland 4403
19. Venezuela 4017
20. Croatia 3989
21. South Africa 3955
22. New Zealand 3939
23. Belarus 3865
24. Sweden 3809
25. United States 3622
26. Russia 3483
27. Japan 3385
28. France 3342
29. Belgium 3232
30. Germany 2825
31. Philippines 2690
32. Finland 2466
33. Hungary 2297
34. Switzerland 2185
35. Uzbekistan 2181
36. Ghana 2022
37. Spain 2018
38. Romania 1759
39. Thailand 1603
40. Colombia 1567
41. Italy 1096
42. Bulgaria 473
43. South Korea 352
44. Tanzania 314
45. Turkey 233
46. Democratic Republic of the Congo 200
47. Brazil 141
48. Nigeria 124
49. China 51
50. Indonesia 48

How did Ukraine get so low as #10, below places like Panama and Numibia? It must be because those countries have many highly ranked teeny weeny little fellers that I don't pay any attention to. The UK is below them too.

dagilechia wrote: ↑21 Aug 2019, 12:24

Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑21 Aug 2019, 12:09




How did Ukraine get so low as #10, below places like Panama and Numibia? It must be because those countries have many highly ranked teeny weeny little fellers that I don't pay any attention to. The UK is below them too.

That's because Ukraine has 24x population of Namibia, 11-12x population of Panama, and except of the big 3 (Usyk, Lomachenko, Hvozdyk) they really lack depth. Of course the results would be different if i have selected top 50 or top 100 per country, top 20 method favours smaller nations, but the results are interesting anyway.

dagilechia wrote: ↑21 Aug 2019, 12:24

Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑21 Aug 2019, 12:09




How did Ukraine get so low as #10, below places like Panama and Numibia? It must be because those countries have many highly ranked teeny weeny little fellers that I don't pay any attention to. The UK is below them too.

That's because Ukraine has 24x population of Namibia, 11-12x population of Panama, and except of the big 3 (Usyk, Lomachenko, Hvozdyk) they really lack depth. Of course the results would be different if i have selected top 50 or top 100 per country, top 20 method favours smaller nations, but the results are interesting anyway.

dagilechia wrote: ↑21 Aug 2019, 13:26

dagilechia wrote: ↑21 Aug 2019, 12:24

That's because Ukraine has 24x population of Namibia, 11-12x population of Panama, and except of the big 3 (Usyk, Lomachenko, Hvozdyk) they really lack depth. Of course the results would be different if i have selected top 50 or top 100 per country, top 20 method favours smaller nations, but the results are interesting anyway.

Lomachenko, Usyk, Hvozdyk, Postol, Derevyanchenko, Dalakian, Redkach, Khytrov, Berinchyk, Bohachuk, the rest is a bunch of unknown fighters, eternal prospects like Oleg Malynovskyi and Taras Shelestyuk or verified fringe contenders like Stanyslav Skorokhod and Vyacheslav Shabranskyi... Andriy Rudenko is their p4p #26, so not too much depth there. Still not bad compared to a lot of countries, that is why they're ranked high. The rating of their top 20 is close to Japan.

Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑21 Aug 2019, 13:41

dagilechia wrote: ↑21 Aug 2019, 13:26

Lomachenko, Usyk, Hvozdyk, Postol, Derevyanchenko, Dalakian, Redkach, Khytrov, Berinchyk, Bohachuk, the rest is a bunch of unknown fighters, eternal prospects like Oleg Malynovskyi and Taras Shelestyuk or verified fringe contenders like Stanyslav Skorokhod and Vyacheslav Shabranskyi... Andriy Rudenko is their p4p #26, so not too much depth there. Still not bad compared to a lot of countries, that is why they're ranked high. The rating of their top 20 is close to Japan.

You're not basing this on the so-called "pound for pound" list are you? That whole business is a bunch of baloney started as a space filler in the useless Ring magazine and now they present it as some sort of important official ranking whereas it is nothing more than some guy's list of his favorite fighters almost always favoring the little guys. I am very disappointed in BoxRec for presenting it as something official and important as it is completely bogus!

Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑21 Aug 2019, 13:55 Dag -

Eight out of Boxrec's top 15 cruiserweights are Ukrainian! It would be an incredible nine out of fifteen if they listed Usyk, but they now don't have him listed either as a cruiser or a heavy.

dagilechia wrote: ↑21 Aug 2019, 13:56

Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑21 Aug 2019, 13:41




You're not basing this on the so-called "pound for pound" list are you? That whole business is a bunch of baloney started as a space filler in the useless Ring magazine and now they present it as some sort of important official ranking whereas it is nothing more than some guy's list of his favorite fighters almost always favoring the little guys. I am very disappointed in BoxRec for presenting it as something official and important as it is completely bogus!

i am using boxrec's ratings, in other words, boxrec's p4p rankings based on fighters ratings for each country

dagilechia wrote: ↑21 Aug 2019, 13:59

Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑21 Aug 2019, 13:55 Dag -

Eight out of Boxrec's top 15 cruiserweights are Ukrainian! It would be an incredible nine out of fifteen if they listed Usyk, but they now don't have him listed either as a cruiser or a heavy.

what? your list is wrong, i don't know where you see that

boxrec's cw top 15: Usyk Briedis Dorticos Lerena Glowacki Makabu Okolie Mchunu Cieslak Gevor Wlodarczyk Perez Masternak Ngabu Goulamirian

4 Poles, 2 Cubans, 2 South Africans, 1 Ukrainian, 1 Latvian, 1 Congolese, 1 British, 1 German, 1 French, 1 Belgian

Ilya Muromets wrote: ↑21 Aug 2019, 14:05 OK...Here's what I what I was looking at. What does it mean? (It doesn't format well, but u can go to the link)

name points age w-l-d
last 6
stance residence
1 Andriy Rudenko 23.88
35 32 4 0 orthodox Dnipropetrovsk, Ukraine
2 Vladyslav Sirenko 9.992
24 12 0 0 orthodox Meyerton, South Africa
3 Oleksandr Zakhozhyi 6.525
25 12 0 0 Karlsruhe, Germany
4 Kostiantyn Dovbyshchenko 2.080
27 6 4 1 orthodox Kharkov, Ukraine
5 Alex Mazikin 1.580
44 14 15 2 orthodox Kharkov, Ukraine
6 Oleksandr Babanov* .505
32 2 0 0 orthodox Dnipropetrovsk, Ukraine
7 German Skobenko .263
26 5 4 2 orthodox Makeyevka, Ukraine
8 Taras Neudachyn .164
27 3 0 0 Meyerton, South Africa
9 Maksym Pedyura .150
41 14 14 1 orthodox Kryvyi Rih, Ukraine
10 Iegor Plevako .133
28 6 0 0 orthodox Brooklyn, USA
11 Igor Shevadzutskiy .020
29 2 0 0 orthodox Meyerton, South Africa
12 Dorin Krasmaru .013
26 1 0 0 Sidcup, United Kingdom
13 Oleksandr Pavliuk .008
24 2 3 0 Katowice, Poland
14 Oleksandr Nesterenko .007
33 9 12 0 orthodox Pavlohrad, Ukraine
15 Pavlo Krolenko .006
32 1 3 0 southpaw Kharkov, Ukraine


https://boxrec.com/en/ratings?offset=0& ... country=UA