BoxRec

Ya, that's as brutal as I can remember seeing in the ams.

Noxy wrote: ↑20 Sep 2019, 16:34

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑20 Sep 2019, 15:40
Those are sports with different rules. Pro boxers can fight in barecknucle boxing, BKB, etc. Why not in amateurs?

Because they‘re pros that’s why. The whole idea is daft. Blur the boundary now and where‘s it going to end. What’s the point in having pros in amateur tournaments. I just don’t get it.

Most of top level amateur boxers do just that -- box and are getting some money for that. I doubt Jololov got more money for his pro fights than he is getting for amateur tournaments. The difference between pro and ams if you put aside rules is vague.

I think I read Dychko got 6 figures for each of his Olympic medals, probably many many times more than his pro earnings combined.

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑20 Sep 2019, 17:45

Noxy wrote: ↑20 Sep 2019, 16:34

Because they‘re pros that’s why. The whole idea is daft. Blur the boundary now and where‘s it going to end. What’s the point in having pros in amateur tournaments. I just don’t get it.

Most of top level amateur boxers do just that -- box and are getting some money for that. I doubt Jololov got more money for his pro fights than he is getting for amateur tournaments. The difference between pro and ams if you put aside rules is vague.

They were using 12 oz gloves. The kid is a very seasoned am. He got popped. Sulaiman hates the AIBA.

Side note: In his next fight at the tourney, Jalolov went 3 rounds for a Decision win over his opponent who beat another highly regarded amateur Frazier Clarke (UK) in a split decision in his previous tourney fight.

In the 2016 Olympics we saw people complain about it being unfair... Yet the pros, including 2 former world champions, flopped.

At the world championships here only Jalolov has had any real success... And he's a 6-0 pro.

Katsunari Takayama failed to qualify for the Japanese nationals this year

So being a pro, or former pro, hasn't been particularly successful for those going back to amateurs.

In 2014 the WBC allowed a 5-0 fighter aged 20 to fight for a world title (the novice won this BTW)

In 2017 they let a guy with 1 win in 3 years fight for their Heavyweight world title (he was stopped in a round)

Mauricio needs to sort his house out, be consistent, accept if you're good enough, you're good enough regardless of age

Jalo won the tournament to become amateur world champ

I don't get it. Does the rule say pro boxers can compete in amateurs or not?

cultus wrote: ↑24 Sep 2019, 06:20 I don't get it. Does the rule say pro boxers can compete in amateurs or not?

Yes, pros have already been competing against amateurs for a decade almost. First in the WSB, then APB and from 2016 also in international and even national "amateur" competitions.

Some boxers combine the two, making 2-4 pro bouts a year and going for amateur tournaments in between.

I believe it´s the future of boxing up to certain level. Most pro boxers only have 2-3 bouts in a year anyway so they will proably benefit from staying active competing in amateur tournaments. Mostly Uzbekistan boxers have started their pro careers while still competing for their national team.

Jalolov I wouldn't be surprised if he got paid more for winning the worlds then he did for all his pro bouts combined

I know there were several countries who for the Olympics would pay 6 figures for medalling. Someone like Dychko made money from that, but what do you think he's made from the pros?

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑09 Oct 2019, 15:22 Jalolov I wouldn't be surprised if he got paid more for winning the worlds then he did for all his pro bouts combined

I know there were several countries who for the Olympics would pay 6 figures for medalling. Someone like Dychko made money from that,.

Definitely. Even 7 figures for an Olympic gold medal in a couple of countries.

locoxelbox wrote: ↑09 Oct 2019, 15:15

cultus wrote: ↑24 Sep 2019, 06:20 I don't get it. Does the rule say pro boxers can compete in amateurs or not?

Yes, pros have already been competing against amateurs for a decade almost. First in the WSB, then APB and from 2016 also in international and even national "amateur" competitions.

Some boxers combine the two, making 2-4 pro bouts a year and going for amateur tournaments in between.

I believe it´s the future of boxing up to certain level. Most pro boxers only have 2-3 bouts in a year anyway so they will proably benefit from staying active competing in amateur tournaments. Mostly Uzbekistan boxers have started their pro careers while still competing for their national team.

Thanks for the explanation. I always thought only amateurs were allowed to the olympics. Can you image prime Tyson against some olympic novice

cultus wrote: ↑10 Oct 2019, 02:13

locoxelbox wrote: ↑09 Oct 2019, 15:15 Yes, pros have already been competing against amateurs for a decade almost. First in the WSB, then APB and from 2016 also in international and even national "amateur" competitions.

Some boxers combine the two, making 2-4 pro bouts a year and going for amateur tournaments in between.

I believe it´s the future of boxing up to certain level. Most pro boxers only have 2-3 bouts in a year anyway so they will proably benefit from staying active competing in amateur tournaments. Mostly Uzbekistan boxers have started their pro careers while still competing for their national team.

Thanks for the explanation. I always thought only amateurs were allowed to the olympics. Can you image prime Tyson against some olympic novice

Just playing with the thought if Mike Tyson would have tried for the 1988 Olympics, a 22 year old Mike Tyson would have had to beat a 20 year old Riddick Bowe to make the US team. At the Olympics he would've run into a 23 year old Lennox Lewis in the final probably.

At least 2 females have been at the women's world championships, one was a Thai, regional title holder, who was beaten by Mary Kom, not sure how the other has got on but she was a pro world champion from China

There is a reason for having Amateur ranks. Amateurs are supposed to be a feeder into the professional ranks. The best amateurs turn professional & make a career out of fighting. Why have amateur ranks at all if anyone can fight in them? I don't think people realize the devastating effects a brutal beating can have on the career of a young amateur boxer. It's discouraging to say the least. This is why boxing is the sport that everyone agrees is momentously screwed up. No unified rules for anything.

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑20 Sep 2019, 11:56

Personally, I don't understand what they think the problem is. The guy is clearly bigger and better than his opponent regardless of having a few pro fights on his record. He is just 25, and there are more experienced amateurs than him. He followed rules of amateur boxing and cleanly stopped his opponent. Most likely does the same to cab drivers he fought in pro. What is a big difference.

Amen. i was just about to type that he just seems better. They need to make them wear head gear though.

Amateur boxing serves a useful social purpose outside of its 'leading to professional boxing' use.

Allowing pro boxers to fight in the World Championships does nothing to change that.

However, what is the point then of turning professional if the next honour you will fight for is an amateur one?

No problem with a pro novice still fighting in the ams, but remember when fkn Wlad Klitschko wanted to do it in 2016? That makes me embarrassed for them because they obviously have no shame. But I don't think there's much to fuss about as mentioned, the few seasoned pros who did try, couldnt turn back the clock and got beaten quickly. And with that, I don't think many pros deep within their careers want to risk a loss to an amateur.

It's a bit bullyish in principle. Would it be ok if a modern form Canelo represented Mexico in an am tournament?

Blodhemn wrote: ↑11 Oct 2019, 14:56 No problem with a pro novice still fighting in the ams, but remember when fkn Wlad Klitschko wanted to do it in 2016? That makes me embarrassed for them because they obviously have no shame. But I don't think there's much to fuss about as mentioned, the few seasoned pros who did try, couldnt turn back the clock and got beaten quickly. And with that, I don't think many pros deep within their careers want to risk a loss to an amateur.

Word.

Boxing is different from other sports due to the danger.
Boxers are trying to hurt each other and so pros should not fight Ams.
Somebody will get killed and hurt the sport.

Okay what about these career amateurs you get out of places like Cuba though? These guys spend years and years honing the craft of the amateur rules and stay in that game while mature men. Does turning pro make you vastly stronger as an amateur boxer?

The experienced pros who tried at it so far haven't done that great, certainly not running through the competition. Jalolov may have had the biggest post-pro debut amateur success by winning the worlds , but his pro experience was practically nothing.

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑11 Oct 2019, 20:50 Okay what about these career amateurs you get out of places like Cuba though? These guys spend years and years honing the craft of the amateur rules and stay in that game while mature men. Does turning pro make you vastly stronger as an amateur boxer?

The experienced pros who tried at it so far haven't done that great, certainly not running through the competition. Jalolov may have had the biggest post-pro debut amateur success by winning the worlds , but his pro experience was practically nothing.

Does a relatively limited amateur make gains on a legend by simply turning pro? Nah. Can only imagine it slowly gears them out of the amateur style and eventually making them less effective. For an established pro to turn back says to me their pro career is going nowhere or in Wlad's case, obsessed with winning and ego tripping under the spotlight.

Mateusz Masternak will compete in 2020 olympics qualifiers

In some way this Pros at the Olympics is yesterday´s news as pros have been able to compete against amateurs since 2010 when WSB was introduced. Already then there was an outrage from WBC and the pro boxing community that amateurs fought in 5 round semi-professional circuit bouts without headgear and with smaller gloves, in some cases against professional boxers (who hardly enjoyed any success at all in WSB). The critics, however, remained silent when things did not go as they expected.

In London 2012 there were plenty of WSB boxers with pro (or semi pro experience) but none of them won gold.

Let´s take a look at pro boxers who have fought in WSB from 2010 to 2018. This list, as well as the others, are probably not complete. If some name has been omitted, please help me add those names to the lists.

Pro boxers who fought in WSB from 2010-2018:
Jhonatan Romero (COL) Former IBF World Champion
Patricio Pitto (ARG)
Renato De Donato (ITA)
Michele Crudetti (ITA)
Chabane Fehim (FRA)
Riccardo Pintaudi (ITA)
Brian Castano (ARG)
German Argentino Benitez (ARG)
Denys Solonenko (UKR)
Vincent Legrand (FRA)
Matteo Modugno (ITA)
Daniele Limone (ITA)
Maximiliano Sosa (ARG)
Facundo Simal (ARG)
Marco Calic (CRO)
Aleksandar Aleksandrov (BUL) Apparently fought pro while still amateur against the rules of the time
Redouane Asloum (FRA)
Ahmed Samir (EGY)
Khedafi Djelkhir (FRA)
Mathieu Bauderlique (FRA)
Sylvain Luce (FRA)
Lukasz Zygmunt (POL)
Farrukh Karimov (UZB)
Isaac Munoz (MEX)
Martin Owono (FRA)
Patrick Momene Mokamba (FRA)
Morgan Ndong Zue (FRA)
Ruslan Madiyev (KAZ)
Carlos Aquino (ARG)
Daouda Sow (FRA)
Shunkor Abdurasulov (UZB)

The case of Jhonatan Romero is particularly interesting. After a long and succesful pro career Romero returns first to WSB and then to regular amateur tournaments where he fails to qualify for the 2017 World Championships losing to a relative novice at the time, then 20 year old Wanderley Oliveira, Brazil (who now is a World class boxer).

After 2 in-between pro bouts Romero fought in the Pan Am qualifiers reaching the semifinal only to lose to Cuban star Lazaro Alvarez.