BoxRec

jujigatame wrote: ↑10 Nov 2019, 13:28 I haven't read The Ring in at least 10 years, but having Canelo as #1 P4P at this point is not unreasonable.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑10 Nov 2019, 13:49 Whitaker was number 1 when Jones was prime. So, your whole post is wrong. Canelo has faced the best opposition, much better than loma.

greg wrote: ↑10 Nov 2019, 14:34 ..ranking a cheat and a venue-protected boxer as p4p #1 doesn't certainly add to the credibility of the Ring magazine..

RonnyJ wrote: ↑10 Nov 2019, 13:44

jujigatame wrote: ↑10 Nov 2019, 13:28 I haven't read The Ring in at least 10 years, but having Canelo as #1 P4P at this point is not unreasonable.

It is.

If you know boxing, you understand what the level is for a p4p king.

When prime jones was beating everybody made them all look like b level, everybody said "that is the best boxer in the world, he is p4p the #1", when pac was prime and much younger and tko/ko legends like barrera, morales, oscar, cotto everybody would say "pac is crazy good, he is the best, he is the p4p king".

What i mean is when you talk about p4p #1 you talk a dominant boxer who leaves litle to no room who the best boxer in the world is.

Just like loma did when he was at super featherweight some years ago and i remember some folks here say "he looked GOAT like in his last fight"

Inoue has been a detroyer, loma has been dominant, also while moving up. Canelo didnt look dominant while moving up. Fielding is c class and old kovalev was winning on points outlanding him. Even at his more natural weight he lost to GGG, won the second one. Overall no p4p #1 material

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑10 Nov 2019, 03:18

Szaman wrote: ↑08 Nov 2019, 05:08 That 'old man' was a top fighter.

WAS long before he fought Canelo. Nobody considered him a top fighter after being stopped by E.Alvarez and struggling with Yarde.

Szaman wrote: ↑10 Nov 2019, 18:45

boxing_rocks wrote: ↑10 Nov 2019, 03:18
WAS long before he fought Canelo. Nobody considered him a top fighter after being stopped by E.Alvarez and struggling with Yarde.

But he avenged the Eider Alvarez defeat and dominated Yarde and knocked him out, I wouldn't call losing 1 round (2 rounds max) against Yarde 'struggling', plus he was beating Canelo.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑10 Nov 2019, 21:01 For the record hell I'd even have to rank Canelo #2 at this point. Question marks, protected fighter, all that stuff hanging over him. He still has arguably the best resume in Boxing at the moment...hell maybe not even arguably to be honest, and it's hard not to have him as at least one of the top guys.

I got Loma ahead of him personally, but I don't think it's crazy to say Canelo ranks ahead of Loma.

jujigatame wrote: ↑10 Nov 2019, 18:24

RonnyJ wrote: ↑10 Nov 2019, 13:44

It is.

If you know boxing, you understand what the level is for a p4p king.

When prime jones was beating everybody made them all look like b level, everybody said "that is the best boxer in the world, he is p4p the #1", when pac was prime and much younger and tko/ko legends like barrera, morales, oscar, cotto everybody would say "pac is crazy good, he is the best, he is the p4p king".

What i mean is when you talk about p4p #1 you talk a dominant boxer who leaves litle to no room who the best boxer in the world is.

Just like loma did when he was at super featherweight some years ago and i remember some folks here say "he looked GOAT like in his last fight"

Inoue has been a detroyer, loma has been dominant, also while moving up. Canelo didnt look dominant while moving up. Fielding is c class and old kovalev was winning on points outlanding him. Even at his more natural weight he lost to GGG, won the second one. Overall no p4p #1 material

Your definition is tautological. The #1 P4P is a dominant boxer who is clearly the best boxer in the world? Oh, thanks for clearing that up.

There seems to be this now frantic dash to discount Kovalev. He was the consensus #1 LHW in the world. Lomachenko is amazing but could he move up to WW and KO Crawford or Spence? I doubt it. It's not obviously wrong to have Loma as your #1 P4P but it's not obviously wrong to have Canelo there either.

Inoue is a brilliant fighter too but should be nowhere near the discussion for #1 P4P. His strength of schedule has been very weak in comparison to the other candidates.

DrDuke wrote: ↑10 Nov 2019, 01:59 On the paper Canelo's resume look P4P #1 worthy, but objectively those Golovkin bouts are losses.

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑11 Nov 2019, 00:20

DrDuke wrote: ↑10 Nov 2019, 01:59 On the paper Canelo's resume look P4P #1 worthy, but objectively those Golovkin bouts are losses.

Sure, but losses doesn't mean someone can't be P4P 1. Fighters and fans today are so hung up on undefeated records that they forget how much resume actually matters.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑10 Nov 2019, 21:40

gilgamesh wrote: ↑10 Nov 2019, 21:01 For the record hell I'd even have to rank Canelo #2 at this point. Question marks, protected fighter, all that stuff hanging over him. He still has arguably the best resume in Boxing at the moment...hell maybe not even arguably to be honest, and it's hard not to have him as at least one of the top guys.

I got Loma ahead of him personally, but I don't think it's crazy to say Canelo ranks ahead of Loma.

He definitely has the best resume for a prime fighter if that's your criteria. I still have Crawford #1 but I moved canelo ahead of loma, Spence and usyk to #3.

RonnyJ wrote: ↑11 Nov 2019, 00:56

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑11 Nov 2019, 00:20

Sure, but losses doesn't mean someone can't be P4P 1. Fighters and fans today are so hung up on undefeated records that they forget how much resume actually matters.

thats right. pac was n1 for years even with his losses. but prime pac was super dominant. prime canelo isnt that dominant, he losses, he has gift descisions, he took stuff. on top he just doesnt has p4p n1 kind of skills the top 10 p4p is loaded with very good boxers, the n1 right now has to be someone very special, canelo is very good, but he was is and wont never been special. struggled and lost against fast athletic defensive boxers like lara or floyd, he lost against punchers like GGG.

inoue and loma have p4p n1 kind of skills, they very special.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑10 Nov 2019, 21:40

gilgamesh wrote: ↑10 Nov 2019, 21:01 For the record hell I'd even have to rank Canelo #2 at this point. Question marks, protected fighter, all that stuff hanging over him. He still has arguably the best resume in Boxing at the moment...hell maybe not even arguably to be honest, and it's hard not to have him as at least one of the top guys.

I got Loma ahead of him personally, but I don't think it's crazy to say Canelo ranks ahead of Loma.

He definitely has the best resume for a prime fighter if that's your criteria. I still have Crawford #1 but I moved canelo ahead of loma, Spence and usyk to #3.

oogiebe wrote: ↑11 Nov 2019, 18:19

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑10 Nov 2019, 21:40

He definitely has the best resume for a prime fighter if that's your criteria. I still have Crawford #1 but I moved canelo ahead of loma, Spence and usyk to #3.

So you have Inoue at 2 I suppose.

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑11 Nov 2019, 18:09

RonnyJ wrote: ↑11 Nov 2019, 00:56

thats right. pac was n1 for years even with his losses. but prime pac was super dominant. prime canelo isnt that dominant, he losses, he has gift descisions, he took stuff. on top he just doesnt has p4p n1 kind of skills the top 10 p4p is loaded with very good boxers, the n1 right now has to be someone very special, canelo is very good, but he was is and wont never been special. struggled and lost against fast athletic defensive boxers like lara or floyd, he lost against punchers like GGG.

inoue and loma have p4p n1 kind of skills, they very special.

Canelo doesn't have P4P skills? Who determines that. If you win, you win and you win with skills. Canelo in my opinion is more skilled technically than Shane Mosley, someone else who at one point was considered P4P 1. Not saying Canelo is actually better, but more skilled than Shane.

RonnyJ wrote: ↑10 Nov 2019, 21:55 i cleared that up, because you didnt understood it, otherwise you wouldnt have made the suggestion of canelo being n1

quality is more important than belt, kovalev was considered 1 at lh by ranks, but every expert knew after his eilader loss and trouble with yards, that the more dominant better light heavyweights like bertebiev or gvozdyk surpassed him. they much younger, in prime, punch harder and beat good opponents in dominant fashion unlike kovalev in reascent time. 1 bertebiev, 2 gvozdyk, 3 bivol, kovalev isnt even amongs the top 3.

inoue may be the best boxer ever.

jujigatame wrote: ↑11 Nov 2019, 20:53

RonnyJ wrote: ↑10 Nov 2019, 21:55 i cleared that up, because you didnt understood it, otherwise you wouldnt have made the suggestion of canelo being n1

quality is more important than belt, kovalev was considered 1 at lh by ranks, but every expert knew after his eilader loss and trouble with yards, that the more dominant better light heavyweights like bertebiev or gvozdyk surpassed him. they much younger, in prime, punch harder and beat good opponents in dominant fashion unlike kovalev in reascent time. 1 bertebiev, 2 gvozdyk, 3 bivol, kovalev isnt even amongs the top 3.

inoue may be the best boxer ever.

Kovalev soundly outboxed Alvarez in their rematch and had like 1 bad round against Yarde who he mostly dominated. He was ranked #1 by pretty much every ranking that matters. Most of the criticisms against him are post hoc rationalizing and the fight was pretty much 50/50 before the KO.

Inoue is nowhere near the best boxer ever. Compare his career to that of Mayweather or Pacquiao at the same age and it's not even in the same universe. You have completely lost the plot with that one.