He ties the opponent everytime he fights inside. I have never seen Robinson fight inside. What fight did you see him fight inside? Let's get to the point.
Lamotta, Basilio, Fullmer...I'm sure there are others. Hell he stopped Lamotta battering him on the inside for that matter.
If you think he's not the best boxer that ever lived. That's a fair enough point, and an argument can certainly be made there. If you think he had no inside fighting skills whatsoever. Well...I've just proven you wrong.
No, you didn't gilgamesh. I saw on films all of Sugar Ray's greatest fights with Gene Fullmer, Carmen Basilio, and others. Ralph "Tiger" Jones gave him a whupping. He carried the fight to Robinson. Robinson lacked the versatility as the other COMPLETE fighters that I considered better.
Can he be the #1 ever? Possibly. Not in my book. My number one best fighter ever is the great Henry Armstrong. Armstrong wasn't a complete fighter, either. But he fought inside much better than Robinson. That's my view. That's how I see it.
Re: Why is Sugar Ray Robinson to you the Greatest Pound Per Pound Fighter of All-time?
Lamotta, Basilio, Fullmer...I'm sure there are others. Hell he stopped Lamotta battering him on the inside for that matter.
If you think he's not the best boxer that ever lived. That's a fair enough point, and an argument can certainly be made there. If you think he had no inside fighting skills whatsoever. Well...I've just proven you wrong.
No, you didn't gilgamesh. I saw on films all of Sugar Ray's greatest fights with Gene Fullmer, Carmen Basilio, and others. Ralph "Tiger" Jones gave him a whupping. He carried the fight to Robinson. Robinson lacked the versatility as the other COMPLETE fighters that I considered better.
Can he be the #1 ever? Possibly. Not in my book. My number one best fighter ever is the great Henry Armstrong. Armstrong wasn't a complete fighter, either. But he fought inside much better than Robinson. That's my view. That's how I see it.
Do you not think Robinson being retired three years may have impacted his performance against Tiger?
Gents, is this elmersalsa a real person? Or is this another character-poster, created to irritate? '132-3 is no big deal'--who actually thinks this? Surely no real person?
Re: Why is Sugar Ray Robinson to you the Greatest Pound Per Pound Fighter of All-time?
Posted: 06 Dec 2019, 09:05
by DrDuke
He isn't to me. He is among the greatest boxers, but not #1.
Re: Why is Sugar Ray Robinson to you the Greatest Pound Per Pound Fighter of All-time?
Posted: 06 Dec 2019, 09:41
by Controversial
He certainly has a great record but he only made five WW title defences, Jimmy Doyle, Bernard Docusen, Chuck Taylor, Kid Gaviliian and Charley Fusari but had something like 30+ non-title fights in between. Then he had a yo-yo title reign at MW. Personally I've never understood why winning a title several times is seen as a big deal, surely its better not to lose it in the first place. For a great fighter his title reigns weren't that strong but he was obviously a great fighter.
Re: Why is Sugar Ray Robinson to you the Greatest Pound Per Pound Fighter of All-time?
Posted: 06 Dec 2019, 12:03
by Ambling Alp II
I agree that the number of times that a fighter wins a title in the same weight class doesn't mean much. If you win every time, you probably can only win it once, right?
However, I think you have to look a lot deeper at what Robinson did at welterweight. He didn't get a title shot until December of 1946. He was the ranked number one welterweight in 1941. He had to wait five years before finally getting his chance. Take a look at some of the guys that he was beating at this time.
A lot of people don't fully grasp his middleweight title fights later in his career. He was in his mid-late 30s when he was battling some great middleweights.
If people don't think he was number 1, fine. However, their best argument would be trying to point out great things about else's career instead of trying rip Robinson.
Re: Why is Sugar Ray Robinson to you the Greatest Pound Per Pound Fighter of All-time?
Posted: 06 Dec 2019, 12:06
by Tuan_Jim
Controversial wrote: ↑06 Dec 2019, 09:41
He certainly has a great record but he only made five WW title defences, Jimmy Doyle, Bernard Docusen, Chuck Taylor, Kid Gaviliian and Charley Fusari but had something like 30+ non-title fights in between. Then he had a yo-yo title reign at MW. Personally I've never understood why winning a title several times is seen as a big deal, surely its better not to lose it in the first place. For a great fighter his title reigns weren't that strong but he was obviously a great fighter.
Totally depends on the quality of the opposition. Against Robinson's middleweight opp, you're not going to keep the belt. Against Hopkins' championship opposition.... Who is there to lose to?
Re: Why is Sugar Ray Robinson to you the Greatest Pound Per Pound Fighter of All-time?
Lamotta, Basilio, Fullmer...I'm sure there are others. Hell he stopped Lamotta battering him on the inside for that matter.
If you think he's not the best boxer that ever lived. That's a fair enough point, and an argument can certainly be made there. If you think he had no inside fighting skills whatsoever. Well...I've just proven you wrong.
No, you didn't gilgamesh. I saw on films all of Sugar Ray's greatest fights with Gene Fullmer, Carmen Basilio, and others. Ralph "Tiger" Jones gave him a whupping. He carried the fight to Robinson. Robinson lacked the versatility as the other COMPLETE fighters that I considered better.
Can he be the #1 ever? Possibly. Not in my book. My number one best fighter ever is the great Henry Armstrong. Armstrong wasn't a complete fighter, either. But he fought inside much better than Robinson. That's my view. That's how I see it.
Armstrong was almost certainly a better inside fighter than Robinson considering that's mainly what his style was built around, but for the record he lost to Ray.
Re: Why is Sugar Ray Robinson to you the Greatest Pound Per Pound Fighter of All-time?
Posted: 06 Dec 2019, 15:54
by gilgamesh
Controversial wrote: ↑06 Dec 2019, 09:41
He certainly has a great record but he only made five WW title defences, Jimmy Doyle, Bernard Docusen, Chuck Taylor, Kid Gaviliian and Charley Fusari but had something like 30+ non-title fights in between. Then he had a yo-yo title reign at MW. Personally I've never understood why winning a title several times is seen as a big deal, surely its better not to lose it in the first place. For a great fighter his title reigns weren't that strong but he was obviously a great fighter.
There are some guys who's Pre-Title run is every bit as impressive as their Championship reign. Robinson would be among them.
Re: Why is Sugar Ray Robinson to you the Greatest Pound Per Pound Fighter of All-time?
No, you didn't gilgamesh. I saw on films all of Sugar Ray's greatest fights with Gene Fullmer, Carmen Basilio, and others. Ralph "Tiger" Jones gave him a whupping. He carried the fight to Robinson. Robinson lacked the versatility as the other COMPLETE fighters that I considered better.
Can he be the #1 ever? Possibly. Not in my book. My number one best fighter ever is the great Henry Armstrong. Armstrong wasn't a complete fighter, either. But he fought inside much better than Robinson. That's my view. That's how I see it.
Do you not think Robinson being retired three years may have impacted his performance against Tiger?
Gents, is this elmersalsa a real person? Or is this another character-poster, created to irritate? '132-3 is no big deal'--who actually thinks this? Surely no real person?
He lost to Tiger in 1952 didn't he?
Re: Why is Sugar Ray Robinson to you the Greatest Pound Per Pound Fighter of All-time?
Lamotta, Basilio, Fullmer...I'm sure there are others. Hell he stopped Lamotta battering him on the inside for that matter.
If you think he's not the best boxer that ever lived. That's a fair enough point, and an argument can certainly be made there. If you think he had no inside fighting skills whatsoever. Well...I've just proven you wrong.
No, you didn't gilgamesh. I saw on films all of Sugar Ray's greatest fights with Gene Fullmer, Carmen Basilio, and others. Ralph "Tiger" Jones gave him a whupping. He carried the fight to Robinson. Robinson lacked the versatility as the other COMPLETE fighters that I considered better.
Can he be the #1 ever? Possibly. Not in my book. My number one best fighter ever is the great Henry Armstrong. Armstrong wasn't a complete fighter, either. But he fought inside much better than Robinson. That's my view. That's how I see it.
You say you saw these films, and yet you NEVER saw Robinson fight on the inside?
Either you're lying about having seen them or you don't know what inside fighting is. Can only be one or the other.
Re: Why is Sugar Ray Robinson to you the Greatest Pound Per Pound Fighter of All-time?
No, you didn't gilgamesh. I saw on films all of Sugar Ray's greatest fights with Gene Fullmer, Carmen Basilio, and others. Ralph "Tiger" Jones gave him a whupping. He carried the fight to Robinson. Robinson lacked the versatility as the other COMPLETE fighters that I considered better.
Can he be the #1 ever? Possibly. Not in my book. My number one best fighter ever is the great Henry Armstrong. Armstrong wasn't a complete fighter, either. But he fought inside much better than Robinson. That's my view. That's how I see it.
You say you saw these films, and yet you NEVER saw Robinson fight on the inside?
Either you're lying about having seen them or you don't know what inside fighting is. Can only be one or the other.
This has gotten beyond silly.
Re: Why is Sugar Ray Robinson to you the Greatest Pound Per Pound Fighter of All-time?
You say you saw these films, and yet you NEVER saw Robinson fight on the inside?
Either you're lying about having seen them or you don't know what inside fighting is. Can only be one or the other.
This has gotten beyond silly.
I mean I ain't trying to insult elmer, but I can't let facts be sullied by a poorly thought out opinion. Not thinking Robinson is the greatest boxer of all time is fair enough, and justifiable. Saying he had no inside fighting skills whatsoever is just absolutely untrue. Demonstrably so.
Re: Why is Sugar Ray Robinson to you the Greatest Pound Per Pound Fighter of All-time?
oogiebe wrote: ↑06 Dec 2019, 15:59
This has gotten beyond silly.
I mean I ain't trying to insult elmer, but I can't let facts be sullied by a poorly thought out opinion. Not thinking Robinson is the greatest boxer of all time is fair enough, and justifiable. Saying he had no inside fighting skills whatsoever is just absolutely untrue. Demonstrably so.
I think Elmer fancies himself to be a contrarian. I was going to post some youtube vids on SRR but opted out. No sense in debating.
Re: Why is Sugar Ray Robinson to you the Greatest Pound Per Pound Fighter of All-time?
I mean I ain't trying to insult elmer, but I can't let facts be sullied by a poorly thought out opinion. Not thinking Robinson is the greatest boxer of all time is fair enough, and justifiable. Saying he had no inside fighting skills whatsoever is just absolutely untrue. Demonstrably so.
I think Elmer fancies himself to be a contrarian. I was going to post some youtube vids on SRR but opted out. No sense in debating.
Post the 13th round of Robinson vs Lamotta where Robinson won the title...by beating Lamotta up on the inside
Outside too of course, but I specifically remember the final assault of the fight being a bit of a shoe shine series of uppercuts where he's all up on Lamotta.
Re: Why is Sugar Ray Robinson to you the Greatest Pound Per Pound Fighter of All-time?
oogiebe wrote: ↑06 Dec 2019, 16:09
I think Elmer fancies himself to be a contrarian. I was going to post some youtube vids on SRR but opted out. No sense in debating.
Post the 13th round of Robinson vs Lamotta where Robinson won the title...by beating Lamotta up on the inside
Outside too of course, but I specifically remember the finally assault of the fight being a bit of a shoe shine series of uppercuts where he's all up on Lamotta.
Your wish...(that's the one I was going to post! )
Re: Why is Sugar Ray Robinson to you the Greatest Pound Per Pound Fighter of All-time?
Posted: 06 Dec 2019, 16:16
by gilgamesh
I love that roundhouse right to the body of Robinson's. Looks painful.
Re: Why is Sugar Ray Robinson to you the Greatest Pound Per Pound Fighter of All-time?
Posted: 06 Dec 2019, 16:17
by oogiebe
gilgamesh wrote: ↑06 Dec 2019, 16:16
I love that roundhouse right to the body of Robinson's. Looks painful.
The uppercuts always get me. LaMotta was one tough mf'er.
Re: Why is Sugar Ray Robinson to you the Greatest Pound Per Pound Fighter of All-time?
gilgamesh wrote: ↑06 Dec 2019, 16:16
I love that roundhouse right to the body of Robinson's. Looks painful.
The uppercuts always get me. LaMotta was one tough mf'er.
Among the toughest. Hell for that matter Robinson wasn't exactly weak chinned or weak willed himself. He was never stopped either....well....not by punches anyway.
Re: Why is Sugar Ray Robinson to you the Greatest Pound Per Pound Fighter of All-time?
No, you didn't gilgamesh. I saw on films all of Sugar Ray's greatest fights with Gene Fullmer, Carmen Basilio, and others. Ralph "Tiger" Jones gave him a whupping. He carried the fight to Robinson. Robinson lacked the versatility as the other COMPLETE fighters that I considered better.
Can he be the #1 ever? Possibly. Not in my book. My number one best fighter ever is the great Henry Armstrong. Armstrong wasn't a complete fighter, either. But he fought inside much better than Robinson. That's my view. That's how I see it.
Armstrong was almost certainly a better inside fighter than Robinson considering that's mainly what his style was built around, but for the record he lost to Ray.
Henry was already washed up. Two different styles. One can't box, and the other can't fight inside.
Re: Why is Sugar Ray Robinson to you the Greatest Pound Per Pound Fighter of All-time?
No, you didn't gilgamesh. I saw on films all of Sugar Ray's greatest fights with Gene Fullmer, Carmen Basilio, and others. Ralph "Tiger" Jones gave him a whupping. He carried the fight to Robinson. Robinson lacked the versatility as the other COMPLETE fighters that I considered better.
Can he be the #1 ever? Possibly. Not in my book. My number one best fighter ever is the great Henry Armstrong. Armstrong wasn't a complete fighter, either. But he fought inside much better than Robinson. That's my view. That's how I see it.
You say you saw these films, and yet you NEVER saw Robinson fight on the inside?
Either you're lying about having seen them or you don't know what inside fighting is. Can only be one or the other.
Watch Roberto Duran inside game.
Watch Eusebio Pedroza inside game.
Watch Salvador Sanchez inside game
Watch Marvelous inside game.
Robinson in that department got a lot to be desired.
Re: Why is Sugar Ray Robinson to you the Greatest Pound Per Pound Fighter of All-time?
chrisjs1985 wrote: ↑05 Dec 2019, 14:31
Zivic, Angott, Abrams, Servo, Shapiro (to name but a few) couldn't fight?
He was outright favorite against them bums. Cocoa Kid was there.
Holman Williams was there.
Charley Burley was there.
So, Archie Moore.
As a matter of fact, only Fritzie Zivic fought Burley.
Elmer, you are a rascist imbecile. Alp and onetime have already put you in your place using facts. Now you say white guys cant fight Arsehole of a guy.
Re: Why is Sugar Ray Robinson to you the Greatest Pound Per Pound Fighter of All-time?
Post the 13th round of Robinson vs Lamotta where Robinson won the title...by beating Lamotta up on the inside
Outside too of course, but I specifically remember the finally assault of the fight being a bit of a shoe shine series of uppercuts where he's all up on Lamotta.
Your wish...(that's the one I was going to post! )
And you called that "fighting inside"?
Re: Why is Sugar Ray Robinson to you the Greatest Pound Per Pound Fighter of All-time?
He was outright favorite against them bums. Cocoa Kid was there.
Holman Williams was there.
Charley Burley was there.
So, Archie Moore.
As a matter of fact, only Fritzie Zivic fought Burley.
Elmer, you are a rascist imbecile. Alp and onetime have already put you in your place using facts. Now you say white guys cant fight Arsehole of a guy.
The Choir CHURCH Boy put me in my place?
I'm a racist? You don't even know the meaning of racist.
Did I say that white guys can't fight? I think someone in here got reading comprehension skills so fuucked up. Be your own man, bro.
Arsehole of a guy.