BoxRec

gilgamesh wrote: ↑07 Dec 2019, 18:23The significantly lighter and faster Wilder will not be so easy to outmanuever

Conversely, I'd favour AJ on the inside if they both let their hands go. Wilder loses a lot of power when he has to shorten his punches, and it's the reason he's struggled against opponents who stay on top of him. Give him range because you're scared of his power and you give him the best chance to land it.

Grilling Machine wrote: ↑07 Dec 2019, 20:02

gilgamesh wrote: ↑07 Dec 2019, 18:23The significantly lighter and faster Wilder will not be so easy to outmanuever

Conversely, I'd favour AJ on the inside if they both let their hands go. Wilder loses a lot of power when he has to shorten his punches, and it's the reason he's struggled against opponents who stay on top of him. Give him range because you're scared of his power and you give him the best chance to land it.

That one could go either way and could be over in a round!

The top 3 could all beat each other

Nondescript wrote: ↑07 Dec 2019, 18:42

gilgamesh wrote: ↑07 Dec 2019, 18:32

You think AJ is like Hughie all of the sudden?

AJ would moida Hughie.

Didn't know you were from Boston, Gil.

The things you don't know could fill an Encyclopedia

OH!!! That's right I went there

Grilling Machine wrote: ↑07 Dec 2019, 20:02

gilgamesh wrote: ↑07 Dec 2019, 18:23The significantly lighter and faster Wilder will not be so easy to outmanuever

Conversely, I'd favour AJ on the inside if they both let their hands go. Wilder loses a lot of power when he has to shorten his punches, and it's the reason he's struggled against opponents who stay on top of him. Give him range because you're scared of his power and you give him the best chance to land it.

I agree. AJ has a better overall arsenal, and if he attacked Wilder right at the jump he might get him. I get the feeling he'd be real patient though, and leave the door open for Wilder to have his chance.

Fury's the only one who's ever tired Wilder by using his weight, and I think the same'd work against AJ. But if we're calling AJ-Ruiz a fluke now because Ruiz didn't turn up tonight, it's fair to say (again!) that Wlad didn't turn up against Fury. Wlad knew it, and like AJ this time, was really fired up for the rematch. Fury claims he was simply that bit better, but he didn't put it beyond doubt.

Fury did do better than I expected against Wilder — he made Wilder look timid, but equally, Wilder's KD shot was off-balance and late. Fury and AJ would both fail the count from that ranged right that put Stiverne II and Ortiz II down. If Fury wins their rematch, he'll break that trend of Wilder performing better in his rematches.

I'm not dissing anyone here, 'cause I like them all in their own ways, but they've all weaknesses that make their fights interesting, and so all the more frustrating that we've had to wait so long.

maybe maybe not but it suited this fight and demonstrated the ability to learn change and come back to win .

lets not forget wilder said ruiz would win easily ..

fool !

lillywhite14 wrote: ↑07 Dec 2019, 19:43

Fury produces that tonight and people wank themselves off a cliff. Mickey would be in hospital having his cock reattached after that if the gypsy king had done that to Ruiz.

He got the job done, and won with ease. Problem is, he should never be losing to the likes of Ruiz jnr. The destroyer really isn’t very good

lillywhite14 wrote: ↑07 Dec 2019, 19:43

Fury produces that tonight and people wank themselves off a cliff. Mickey would be in hospital having his cock reattached after that if the gypsy king had done that to Ruiz.

He got the job done, and won with ease. Problem is, he should never be losing to the likes of Ruiz jnr. The destroyer really isn’t very good

I was gonna say when Mick Hennessy did his shades of ali rant, I think it was this that he was referring to rather than Hughie v Parker.

AJ looked good and pretty accomplished but Ruiz was outta shape (even by his standards) and lacking desire and balls! He took no chances in there and plodded on to a wide defeat. If AJ adopts that style against Wilder or Fury then he's easy meat!

11-1 AJ, easy work boxing disciplined and not rushing in for a kill

He has a realistic shot to beat anyone in the division

Stuarty wrote: ↑07 Dec 2019, 21:04 AJ looked good and pretty accomplished but Ruiz was outta shape (even by his standards) and lacking desire and balls! He took no chances in there and plodded on to a wide defeat. If AJ adopts that style against Wilder or Fury then he's easy meat!

Yeah he definitely don't need to start thinking this is the way he needs to fight all his fights. It's the way he needed to fight THIS fight, but certainly not a style he should stick with all the time.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑07 Dec 2019, 21:06

Stuarty wrote: ↑07 Dec 2019, 21:04 AJ looked good and pretty accomplished but Ruiz was outta shape (even by his standards) and lacking desire and balls! He took no chances in there and plodded on to a wide defeat. If AJ adopts that style against Wilder or Fury then he's easy meat!

Yeah he definitely don't need to start thinking this is the way he needs to fight all his fights. It's the way he needed to fight THIS fight, but certainly not a style he should stick with all the time.

Yip deffo mate He can't start thinking he's something he's not because it won't work! He was exciting and took chances before but after his ko defeat will he be able to fight that way again? He's shown he can adapt but can he mix it up or is he stuck fighting a certain way now because he doesn't want any punishment because he knows he can't take it?

Wlad went all caution first after his defeats! Pulev aside, he struggled to change his style from the effective safety first style

Stuarty wrote: ↑07 Dec 2019, 21:10

gilgamesh wrote: ↑07 Dec 2019, 21:06

Yeah he definitely don't need to start thinking this is the way he needs to fight all his fights. It's the way he needed to fight THIS fight, but certainly not a style he should stick with all the time.

Yip deffo mate He can't start thinking he's something he's not because it won't work! He was exciting and took chances before but after his ko defeat will he be able to fight that way again? He's shown he can adapt but can he mix it up or is he stuck fighting a certain way now because he doesn't want any punishment because he knows he can't take it?

He'll have to fight some new faces to answer that question for us. If he fights Ruiz again he's gonna do his best to repeat this performance to the letter.

Stuarty wrote: ↑07 Dec 2019, 21:11 Wlad went all caution first after his defeats! Pulev aside, he struggled to change his style from the effective safety first style

AJ ain't Wlad though. AJ won't be able to be nearly as successful with that kinda safety first style. He gets hit too much, and isn't nearly as mobile on his feet. If he does indeed wind up trying to fight all of his fights like this from here on out. I doubt he makes 3 consecutive title defenses before losing the title again.

You gotta play it by ear to a degree as a boxer. Every fight needs it's own approach. Especially at the top levels.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑07 Dec 2019, 21:12

Stuarty wrote: ↑07 Dec 2019, 21:10

Yip deffo mate He can't start thinking he's something he's not because it won't work! He was exciting and took chances before but after his ko defeat will he be able to fight that way again? He's shown he can adapt but can he mix it up or is he stuck fighting a certain way now because he doesn't want any punishment because he knows he can't take it?

He'll have to fight some new faces to answer that question for us. If he fights Ruiz again he's gonna do his best to repeat this performance to the letter.

Yip true. He won't be able to box with Fury and he can't fight that way against Wilder because that takes away the fear factor Wilder has! Wilder would go in to that fight knowing that he's gonna catch him and there's nothing coming back! Whyte might make him fight! I kinda hate that fight because it's another PpV Sky monopolay but i also like it because it could be a decent scrap!

gilgamesh wrote: ↑07 Dec 2019, 21:13

Stuarty wrote: ↑07 Dec 2019, 21:11 Wlad went all caution first after his defeats! Pulev aside, he struggled to change his style from the effective safety first style

AJ ain't Wlad though. AJ won't be able to be nearly as successful with that kinda safety first style. He gets hit too much, and isn't nearly as mobile on his feet. If he does indeed wind up trying to fight all of his fights like this from here on out. I doubt he makes 3 consecutive title defenses before losing the title again.

You gotta play it by ear to a degree as a boxer. Every fight needs it's own approach. Especially at the top levels.

Yeah i totally agree mate. Couldn't agree more. I'm just trying to look at things from different angles etc.. I was just using Wlad as an example. I know he's way in front of AJ and anyone else when it comes to implicating that style....

Stuarty wrote: ↑07 Dec 2019, 21:20

gilgamesh wrote: ↑07 Dec 2019, 21:13

AJ ain't Wlad though. AJ won't be able to be nearly as successful with that kinda safety first style. He gets hit too much, and isn't nearly as mobile on his feet. If he does indeed wind up trying to fight all of his fights like this from here on out. I doubt he makes 3 consecutive title defenses before losing the title again.

You gotta play it by ear to a degree as a boxer. Every fight needs it's own approach. Especially at the top levels.

Yeah i totally agree mate. Couldn't agree more. I'm just trying to look at things from different angles etc.. I was just using Wlad as an example. I know he's way in front of AJ and anyone else when it comes to implicating that style....

AJ doesn't seem to have the Clinch part of the Clinchko act down just yet.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑07 Dec 2019, 21:23

Stuarty wrote: ↑07 Dec 2019, 21:20

Yeah i totally agree mate. Couldn't agree more. I'm just trying to look at things from different angles etc.. I was just using Wlad as an example. I know he's way in front of AJ and anyone else when it comes to implicating that style....

AJ doesn't seem to have the Clinch part of the Clinchko act down just yet.

Nah he doesn't. I thought he looked alright in close earlier when he was manoeuvring and catching some shots before they were thrown but he doesn't have the lean that Wlad had He could lean all over folk easy as you like

Talking of Whyte, I do believe he's improved since he fought AJ, but I also feel that his chin's never been as good.

Grilling Machine wrote: ↑07 Dec 2019, 22:05 Talking of Whyte, I do believe he's improved since he fought AJ, but I also feel that his chin's never been as good.

I thought he looked infinitely beatable tonight. The worst I've seen him. Slow, lethargic, predictable, and utterly defenceless to a slow telegraphed overhand right.
Was he just playing badly to attract Wilder, or was he just having a very bad night?

KiwiRider wrote: ↑07 Dec 2019, 22:19

Grilling Machine wrote: ↑07 Dec 2019, 22:05 Talking of Whyte, I do believe he's improved since he fought AJ, but I also feel that his chin's never been as good.

I thought he looked infinitely beatable tonight. The worst I've seen him. Slow, lethargic, predictable, and utterly defenceless to a slow telegraphed overhand right.
Was he just playing badly to attract Wilder, or was he just having a very bad night?

I normally don't buy it when guys give the excuse that they haven't been training properly, and their head hasn't been in the right place and this and that, but I believe it in Whyte's case with him basically being robbed yet again of his rightful title shot, and being handed a lengthy suspension from the sport.

I definitely don't think this was as good as he's capable of being. That being said, I think even the very best Whyte doesn't have much of a shot against the guys at the top. He's a solid contender, and will continue to be for a while to come, but I don't see him ever being more than what he is right now.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑07 Dec 2019, 22:22

KiwiRider wrote: ↑07 Dec 2019, 22:19

I thought he looked infinitely beatable tonight. The worst I've seen him. Slow, lethargic, predictable, and utterly defenceless to a slow telegraphed overhand right.
Was he just playing badly to attract Wilder, or was he just having a very bad night?

I normally don't buy it when guys give the excuse that they haven't been training properly, and their head hasn't been in the right place and this and that, but I believe it in Whyte's case with him basically being robbed yet again of his rightful title shot, and being handed a lengthy suspension from the sport.

I definitely don't think this was as good as he's capable of being. That being said, I think even the very best Whyte doesn't have much of a shot against the guys at the top. He's a solid contender, and will continue to be for a while to come, but I don't see him ever being more than what he is right now.

A modern day Jerry Quarry in a way.

oogiebe wrote: ↑07 Dec 2019, 22:24

gilgamesh wrote: ↑07 Dec 2019, 22:22

I normally don't buy it when guys give the excuse that they haven't been training properly, and their head hasn't been in the right place and this and that, but I believe it in Whyte's case with him basically being robbed yet again of his rightful title shot, and being handed a lengthy suspension from the sport.

I definitely don't think this was as good as he's capable of being. That being said, I think even the very best Whyte doesn't have much of a shot against the guys at the top. He's a solid contender, and will continue to be for a while to come, but I don't see him ever being more than what he is right now.

A modern day Jerry Quarry in a way.

Indeed. A solid contender. A guy who likely will be in the mix for a while to come. May wind up fighting most every Champ or big name Contender of his era, but probably won't ever be World Champion.

And even if he is World Champ, it'll be one of those cases where like they strip AJ of one of his belts, and Whyte vs Joe Schmo for the vacant belt takes place allowing him the big win he won't otherwise get.

That sh*t never happened back in Quarry's day.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑07 Dec 2019, 22:22

KiwiRider wrote: ↑07 Dec 2019, 22:19

I thought he looked infinitely beatable tonight. The worst I've seen him. Slow, lethargic, predictable, and utterly defenceless to a slow telegraphed overhand right.
Was he just playing badly to attract Wilder, or was he just having a very bad night?

I normally don't buy it when guys give the excuse that they haven't been training properly, and their head hasn't been in the right place and this and that, but I believe it in Whyte's case with him basically being robbed yet again of his rightful title shot, and being handed a lengthy suspension from the sport.

I definitely don't think this was as good as he's capable of being. That being said, I think even the very best Whyte doesn't have much of a shot against the guys at the top. He's a solid contender, and will continue to be for a while to come, but I don't see him ever being more than what he is right now.

Physically- I don't think he trained enough. Though, it was his lack of speed and defence that made me say "infinitely beatable" because if Wach, and let's face it, it's Wach, can land slow, telegraphed overhand rights consistently flush, then the Whyte we saw tonight gets startched by a puncher easily.