BoxRec

Speaking of Tyson; In opinion Tyson took a very clear dive in his last fight. Tyson once a pretty good all time boxer of his time, he just doesn't seem to have what it takes now. If for sure he did in deed take a dive on his last fight it could have been due to his money issues, he was broke.

On the other hand Ali was a gret boxer of his time. The man had the mouth and the fist to prove what he was made of. It's really a sad issue the shape Ali is in now, could his health today have anything to do with his boxing past?

For someone who was supposed to be taking a dive Tyson seemed to be trying pretty hard to knock Williams out in the first two rounds, came pretty close too.

As said many time; Boxing has Cassius Clay; Humanity has Muhammed Ali. Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee. Ali dominated the boxing world with only 5 loss, his last in 1981, more than two decades. Ali lost to Trevor Berbick. Ali truely a champion of the people.

After watching Tysons last fight, it appeared to me that he went down too easy. I agree it was a close fight and to start Tyson was giving it his all. If he didn't take a dive maybe he's out of shape.

Lex wrote:As said many time; Boxing has Cassius Clay; Humanity has Muhammed Ali. Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee. Ali dominated the boxing world with only 5 loss, his last in 1981, more than two decades. Ali lost to Trevor Berbick. Ali truely a champion of the people.

After watching Tysons last fight, it appeared to me that he went down too easy. I agree it was a close fight and to start Tyson was giving it his all. If he didn't take a dive maybe he's out of shape.

Tyson just fell to peices when Williams didn't go down... same as in his fights against Douglas and Holifield.... Mike is basically a frontrunner.
The most suspicous fight for me is Tysons fight with Lewis where I'm sure Tyson was under some form of medication and literally seemed in capable of throwing a punch... he actually looked pretty good for the first two rounds against Williams but when Danny put the pressure on him Tyson just fell apart!......

Tyson claimed to have a knee injury after his fight with Williams, seeing Tyson afterwards his knee seemed in good condition, Not to mention Tyson really would not speak about the supposed knee injury to the press.

If Tysons knee hadnt given out on him Danny wouldnt have survived the first round,of this i am quite certain.You can see that at one point in the first Tyson goes to throw a right hand but his knee seemingly buckled under him,it is at that point that Tyson couldnt put any real power into his punches because of his injured knee.Even Danny himself said that starting from the second round onwards Tysons power seemed to diminish considerably.I mean seriously people,Danny is a nice chap and all but surely you all saw how he was wobbling all over the place from the opening bell from Mikes punches,another 30 seconds would have finished him off.For the record i am no Brit hater or Tyson fanboy,im just stating the obvious IMO thats all.

Lex wrote:Speaking of Tyson; In opinion Tyson took a very clear dive in his last fight. Tyson once a pretty good all time boxer of his time, he just doesn't seem to have what it takes now. If for sure he did in deed take a dive on his last fight it could have been due to his money issues, he was broke.

It depends what you mean by taking a dive? If you mean he lost the fight on purpose I don't agree. He tried too hard to win in the first round and was in too good a shape to 'throw' a fight, in my opinion. Plus what would be the benefit money wise?

However if you mean that he took a 'dive' because Williams had took his best shots and was still figting back and that he was losing heart and interest in a tough fight I agree.

Tyson although an awesome fighter in the 1980's was always an on top fighter. If he did'nt get his opponent out of there within 6 rounds he would lose interest. It just that in his youth he has the heart, determination, skills and stamina to win on points. Having said that a peak Tyson was a threat to any Heavyweight in history for the first 4 rounds.

Lex wrote:It's really a sad issue the shape Ali is in now, could his health today have anything to do with his boxing past?

I hate to say it but I think it may. Ali took a lot of hard shots during his second career in the 1970's. His leg speed was not the same after his 3 year ban so was a more static target. Also from what I've read and heard Ali over the years has many brutal sparring sessions which would not have helped his health. The man had a chin of iron and the heart of a lion so was not the type of fighter to go down and stay down after taking a good shot in a fight or just sparring. We are talking about a man who fought Kenny Norton with a broken jaw.

Many experts claim that Ali may have suffered from Parkinsons syndrome if he had never been a Boxer, They may well be right I can only off the top of my head think of two other high profile fighters to suffer from the same disorder Freddie Roach and Beau Jack. Maybe they are right? If so, I myself believe Boxing just brought it on 20 years earlier.

There is just something about Ali that I think will remain with the people. He could box really well and with his comments he showed no fear. He's just one of the boxer's that stands out when you think of boxing. I don't watch womens boxing, but what I have seen of his boxer daughter she's sorta a chip off the ol block.

Lex wrote:I don't watch womens boxing, but what I have seen of his boxer daughter she's sorta a chip off the ol block.

I have not seen too much of her fight either, but from what I have seen she fights more aggresively than her father usually did.

She has also got her fathers mouth, but with not quite the same wit and charisma.

Althougth she is very athletic and does have some fighting ability she is of course not in her father class. But she's pretty, just like her dad!!!!

Ali v. Blin 1971, This replay of the 1971 fight comes on ESPN tonight. I'll be watching that fight.
Wow....another Ali fight tonight, Ali v. Foreman 1974....starting out to be a good fight, so far.
Was anyone able to watch the 1974 Ali v. Foreman on ESPN Tuesday night? I was unable to watch this one. I did see half of the first round and it looked like a good fight. Ali & Foreman both were great boxers in their time.

KOJOE90 wrote:

Lex wrote:I don't watch womens boxing, but what I have seen of his boxer daughter she's sorta a chip off the ol block.

I have not seen too much of her fight either, but from what I have seen she fights more aggresively than her father usually did.

She has also got her fathers mouth, but with not quite the same wit and charisma.

Althougth she is very athletic and does have some fighting ability she is of course not in her father class. But she's pretty, just like her dad!!!!

I agree with you about the way she fights and yes she does have her Fathers mouth. I'm just a great Ali fan and really think it's nice that she looked upto her dad and followed in his footsteps. Yelp you are right again she is pretty. I would like a fresh good start on starting a scrapbook on Ali, know of any good trusted sources on the web that would be a good starting point for me? I'm really new to this thread and on where to get started on researching boxer's like Ali.

Ezzard Charles
Joe Louis
Gene Tunney
JAck Johnson
Mike Tyson
Evander Holyfield
Rocky Marciano
Archie Moore
Sonny Liston
Joe Frazier

someone posted earlier here that these 10 heavies were better in their opinion than Ali...

give me a break, the only one who came close to accomplishing what Ali did is Joe Louis, with his longevity as champion, but lets face it it wasn't called "bum of the month club" for nothing.
Ali was the best of 2 different era's of heavyweights, and the 70's heavies was and is concidered the best at any time, with more depth and talent at that time then any other time in history. He lost 3 and a half years of his carrer, a time when he would have been able to hone his skills to almost perfection, any of you see his fight with Cleveland Williams? That was poetry in motion, I don't think he missed a punch or was even hit in that fight. Williams was a top contender who earlier had given Sonny Liston fits when they fought. He was at the top of his game at that point, and he most likely would have been unstoppable for some time to come if not for the U.S. government trying to shut him up because of his conversion to islam and their "Fear" of the nation of islam. When his speed and reflexes went in the 70's he relied on his chin and toughness/heart to get him through. I don't think Ali was over rated, on the contrary I think he is underrated.

cheers M.O.