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Re: Josh Taylor signs for Toprank. Cyclone not happy.
Posted: 09 Jan 2020, 14:24
by margaret thatcher
Why should this make anyone sick? The biggest fight for the division is vs a Top Rank fighter, and TR has big money to throw around and can bring Taylor's name up in a big new market. It's good for his career as long as a legal process doesn't drag it down.
Re: Josh Taylor signs for Toprank. Cyclone not happy.
Posted: 09 Jan 2020, 14:28
by Stuarty
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑09 Jan 2020, 14:18
I don't know the legal situation, but Josh is a pro boxer and it's hardly some shameful, unethical thing to make a move that brings him bigger money and better fights. Any promoter pretty much works on the same mindset, they just get upset when someone else makes a move for the better
Agree. I do feel sorry for the McGuigans because they've done an excellent job with him but it's a short career that can end at any moment so Taylor has to maximise his earning potential any way he can. Promoters all over the world use fighters like cattle and sometimes fighters leave to look after number 1. It's just the way the sport is. Sometimes it's not nice to see but that's life.
Re: Josh Taylor signs for Toprank. Cyclone not happy.
Posted: 09 Jan 2020, 14:30
by Spud
Barry McGuigan has done a very good job for Josh Taylor. He deserves better.
Re: Josh Taylor signs for Toprank. Cyclone not happy.
Posted: 09 Jan 2020, 14:31
by margaret thatcher
I think the more important question is, at this point in JT's career, is he better off with Top Rank or Barry? Who gets him closer to Ramirez and other big fights? Who brings him bigger money and can expand his profile? Who is more likely to push his career closest to the most it can be, so that when Josh is looking back he can say he accomplished as much as he could've?
I don't think Barry is entitled to Josh's career just because the career has gone well so far. The power should be with the fighter, as long as it's within legal limits. Barry is a business man too and has cut fighters and stacked odds against opponents. He doesn't deserve any special tears.
Re: Josh Taylor signs for Toprank. Cyclone not happy.
Posted: 09 Jan 2020, 14:43
by Spud
Top Rank are extremely good promoters. I am pleased Taylor did not sign for Mr Hearn.
You make the point who is Taylor better off with ... Barry or Top Rank?
My answer to that is Barry had done a very good job guiding Taylor so far & as such deserved a chance to guide Taylor now he reached the top.
Sometimes the harder job in boxing is guiding a boxer through the politics & putting a fighter in position so he can fight for titles in the first place. When you are a champion things are slightly easier inthat you know as champion you have to fight your mandatories.
I am convinced McGuigan would of carried on doing a good job for Taylor.
Re: Josh Taylor signs for Toprank. Cyclone not happy.
Posted: 09 Jan 2020, 14:50
by Glass Joe
Frampton left Mcguigan signs with MTK, Cameron leaves Mcguigan signs with MTK, Taylor leaves Mcguigan signs with MTK. Something not right behind the scenes that's for sure.
Re: Josh Taylor signs for Toprank. Cyclone not happy.
Posted: 09 Jan 2020, 14:56
by Spud
Glass Joe wrote: ↑09 Jan 2020, 14:50
Frampton left Mcguigan signs with MTK, Cameron leaves Mcguigan signs with MTK, Taylor leaves Mcguigan signs with MTK. Something not right behind the scenes that's for sure.
I do not think this is a valid point.
Frampton is trained by Jamie Moore so is Cameron. Frampton leaving McGuigan was alsways going to put Moore & Cameron in a awkward position
Re: Josh Taylor signs for Toprank. Cyclone not happy.
Posted: 09 Jan 2020, 15:01
by Glass Joe
Spud wrote: ↑09 Jan 2020, 14:56
Glass Joe wrote: ↑09 Jan 2020, 14:50
Frampton left Mcguigan signs with MTK, Cameron leaves Mcguigan signs with MTK, Taylor leaves Mcguigan signs with MTK. Something not right behind the scenes that's for sure.
I do not think this is a valid point.
Frampton is trained by Jamie Moore so is Cameron. Frampton leaving McGuigan was alsways going to put Moore & Cameron in a awkward position
Pretty sure Cameron was with Shane Mcguigan and went to Moore when she left Cyclone and went to MTK
Re: Josh Taylor signs for Toprank. Cyclone not happy.
Posted: 09 Jan 2020, 15:05
by Spud
Glass Joe wrote: ↑09 Jan 2020, 15:01
Spud wrote: ↑09 Jan 2020, 14:56
I do not think this is a valid point.
Frampton is trained by Jamie Moore so is Cameron. Frampton leaving McGuigan was alsways going to put Moore & Cameron in a awkward position
Pretty sure Cameron was with Shane Mcguigan and went to Moore when she left Cyclone and went to MTK
Chantelle Cameron is trained by Jamie Moore, or certainly was when she fought on the Taylor/Baranchyk undercard
Re: Josh Taylor signs for Toprank. Cyclone not happy.
Posted: 09 Jan 2020, 15:12
by 3132DW
Spud wrote: ↑09 Jan 2020, 14:43
Top Rank are extremely good promoters. I am pleased Taylor did not sign for Mr Hearn.
You make the point who is Taylor better off with ... Barry or Top Rank?
My answer to that is Barry had done a very good job guiding Taylor so far & as such deserved a chance to guide Taylor now he reached the top.
Sometimes the harder job in boxing is guiding a boxer through the politics & putting a fighter in position so he can fight for titles in the first place. When you are a champion things are slightly easier inthat you know as champion you have to fight your mandatories.
I am convinced McGuigan would of carried on doing a good job for Taylor.
At least in the UK we would get to see Taylor fighting off he signed with Hearn - the way it’s going that’s another fighter with no TV coverage in UK.
Re: Josh Taylor signs for Toprank. Cyclone not happy.
Posted: 09 Jan 2020, 15:33
by KiwiRider
Just a quick question for our American friends
I know cities like New York have a good turnout for Irish fighters;
Is there a city or state that gets behind Scottish guys?
Just wondering where they will market him stateside.
Re: Josh Taylor signs for Toprank. Cyclone not happy.
Posted: 09 Jan 2020, 15:39
by Twinkle Toes
Good luck to Taylor.
Top rank are on a different planet to Cyclone in regards what they can offer a fighter in relation to securing a fighters financial future.
Re: Josh Taylor signs for Toprank. Cyclone not happy.
Posted: 09 Jan 2020, 15:44
by BigDoofus
Spud wrote: ↑09 Jan 2020, 14:30
Barry McGuigan has done a very good job for Josh Taylor. He deserves better.
At least Finbar can concentrate on Frampton suing him in 11 days time.
Re: Josh Taylor signs for Toprank. Cyclone not happy.
Posted: 09 Jan 2020, 15:54
by bigped
Twinkle Toes wrote: ↑09 Jan 2020, 15:39
Good luck to Taylor.
Top rank are on a different planet to Cyclone in regards what they can offer a fighter in relation to securing a fighters financial future.
Your bang on it will be massive deal he’s signed
Multi - millions guaranteed over the course
Of the deal
Re: Josh Taylor signs for Toprank. Cyclone not happy.
Posted: 09 Jan 2020, 15:56
by rd350lc
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑09 Jan 2020, 14:18
I don't know the legal situation, but Josh is a pro boxer and it's hardly some shameful, unethical thing to make a move that brings him bigger money and better fights. Any promoter pretty much works on the same mindset, they just get upset when someone else makes a move for the better
Not much loyalty though is it ? I suppose it works both ways with promoters dropping fighters too .
Just sad there seems to be that loyalty is thin on the ground nowadays .
Re: Josh Taylor signs for Toprank. Cyclone not happy.
Posted: 09 Jan 2020, 16:35
by Counter-puncher
magnus wrote: ↑09 Jan 2020, 12:23
I know that they aren't popular (and I don't claim to know the ins and outs of the Frampton case) but could anyone genuinely fault how Cyclone have developed and matched Taylor - pretty much a textbook way to bring along a world class talent. Plenty of challenging match-ups and little or no treading water. Actually, come to think about it, I would say the same about Frampton's career under them. A few other promoters could take note.
Agree 100%
Re: Josh Taylor signs for Toprank. Cyclone not happy.
Posted: 09 Jan 2020, 17:09
by 3132DW
Counter-puncher wrote: ↑09 Jan 2020, 16:35
magnus wrote: ↑09 Jan 2020, 12:23
I know that they aren't popular (and I don't claim to know the ins and outs of the Frampton case) but could anyone genuinely fault how Cyclone have developed and matched Taylor - pretty much a textbook way to bring along a world class talent. Plenty of challenging match-ups and little or no treading water. Actually, come to think about it, I would say the same about Frampton's career under them. A few other promoters could take note.
Agree 100%
The issue is how much Cyclone are taking as % of takings - that was issue with Frampton. Every McGuigan including the Dog was on the payroll - 7 or 8 of them all under Cyclone in some form getting a wage.
Frampton was loyal for too long - everyone bar him could see he was the meal ticket.
Said on here before watch them mock Scott Quigg for being thick etc.....he told Frampton you might be the A side and getting more money but o bet I end up with more than you get.
Frampton is looking for 4m + in earnings from them.
No doubting they have managed Taylor well boxing wise - nobody could deny that but end of the day the guy getting punched is taking the risks and if he thinks he’s not getting enough poppy then he’s entitled to make that call.
Re: Josh Taylor signs for Toprank. Cyclone not happy.
Posted: 09 Jan 2020, 17:09
by JimJim2009
Twinkle Toes wrote: ↑09 Jan 2020, 15:39
Good luck to Taylor.
Top rank are on a different planet to Cyclone in regards what they can offer a fighter in relation to securing a fighters financial future.
Agreed. Anyone who can pay what they're paying Fury for a 5 fight deal, is going to have fighters knocking on the door.
Re: Josh Taylor signs for Toprank. Cyclone not happy.
Posted: 09 Jan 2020, 17:14
by 3132DW
JimJim2009 wrote: ↑09 Jan 2020, 17:09
Twinkle Toes wrote: ↑09 Jan 2020, 15:39
Good luck to Taylor.
Top rank are on a different planet to Cyclone in regards what they can offer a fighter in relation to securing a fighters financial future.
Agreed. Anyone who can pay what they're paying Fury for a 5 fight deal, is going to have fighters knocking on the door.
Fury will bring them monies back v Wilder & AJ though even allowing grossly over paying initially.
As good a fighter as Taylor is he’s not box office name and can’t even sell arenas in Scotland he won’t bring money like that.
Re: Josh Taylor signs for Toprank. Cyclone not happy.
Posted: 09 Jan 2020, 17:38
by black panther
3132DW wrote: ↑09 Jan 2020, 17:09
The issue is how much Cyclone are taking as % of takings - that was issue with Frampton. Every McGuigan including the Dog was on the payroll - 7 or 8 of them all under Cyclone in some form getting a wage.
Frampton was loyal for too long - everyone bar him could see he was the meal ticket.
Said on here before watch them mock Scott Quigg for being thick etc.....he told Frampton you might be the A side and getting more money but o bet I end up with more than you get.
Frampton is looking for 4m + in earnings from them.
No doubting they have managed Taylor well boxing wise - nobody could deny that but end of the day the guy getting punched is taking the risks and if he thinks he’s not getting enough poppy then he’s entitled to make that call.
Good post
Re: Josh Taylor signs for Toprank. Cyclone not happy.
Posted: 09 Jan 2020, 17:39
by Counter-puncher
3132DW wrote: ↑09 Jan 2020, 17:09
The issue is how much Cyclone are taking as % of takings - that was issue with Frampton. Every McGuigan including the Dog was on the payroll - 7 or 8 of them all under Cyclone in some form getting a wage.
Frampton was loyal for too long - everyone bar him could see he was the meal ticket.
Said on here before watch them mock Scott Quigg for being thick etc.....he told Frampton you might be the A side and getting more money but o bet I end up with more than you get.
Frampton is looking for 4m + in earnings from them.
No doubting they have managed Taylor well boxing wise - nobody could deny that but end of the day the guy getting punched is taking the risks and if he thinks he’s not getting enough poppy then he’s entitled to make that call.
I wouldn’t disagree with any of that, my agreement with that post was on Cyclone’s matchmaking and development of a prospect, which was refreshingly brisk and well-graduated in Taylor’s case, actually consistent fan and fighter friendly matchmaking, great to watch his career unfold without frustration at wasted time on nothing fights
I agree entirely on the Frampton issue and his having been a gravy train for that family- though I wonder if they’d have the front to try it with another fighter (or another fighter would let it happen) given that they have already been exposed for doing it to Frampton.
Re: Josh Taylor signs for Toprank. Cyclone not happy.
Posted: 09 Jan 2020, 17:43
by Counter-puncher
On the legalities, I’m torn between wondering (1) can Cyclone be so slack and naive as to think a contract is watertight if it isn’t? Or (2) is TR so foolhardy as to sign a fighter who is under a watertight contract?
One of the above has to be true, hasn’t it? I’m no lawyer.
Is it stating the obvious to say I think (1) more likely than (2)? Is a breach of contract suit heading from Taylor to Cyclone as grounds to break the contract? Wouldn’t that potentially stymie his career if he got tied up in a legal battle?
Re: Josh Taylor signs for Toprank. Cyclone not happy.
Posted: 09 Jan 2020, 17:45
by Counter-puncher
Someone set the bat signal for Loynesy!
Re: Josh Taylor signs for Toprank. Cyclone not happy.
Posted: 09 Jan 2020, 17:48
by lillywhite14
Coco wrote: ↑09 Jan 2020, 11:40
If you want loyalty buy a dog.
I wonder if he has earned as much as Frampton!!!
I wonder if either has earned as much as Cyclone
Re: Josh Taylor signs for Toprank. Cyclone not happy.
Posted: 09 Jan 2020, 18:17
by 3132DW
Counter-puncher wrote: ↑09 Jan 2020, 17:43
On the legalities, I’m torn between wondering (1) can Cyclone be so slack and naive as to think a contract is watertight if it isn’t? Or (2) is TR so foolhardy as to sign a fighter who is under a watertight contract?
One of the above has to be true, hasn’t it? I’m no lawyer.
Is it stating the obvious to say I think (1) more likely than (2)? Is a breach of contract suit heading from Taylor to Cyclone as grounds to break the contract? Wouldn’t that potentially stymie his career if he got tied up in a legal battle?
Could Taylor be betting enough monies from TR to cover what he might end up paying Cyclone ?
Will he do what Burns did and bankrupt himself so they can’t get anything if he’s potless like his battle with FW.