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Posted: 26 Dec 2004, 18:49
by Loftgroov
jamesmcdonnell wrote:I find it lamentable how quick everyone is to stand in judgement. The geezer obviously has major problems to deal with. It does seem clear that the news that his career cannot resume until 2006 is what tipped him over the edge.
Christ, where is the violin? There are people around with a fornicating lot tougher lives to live than some crackhead like him. Nobody is forced into taking drugs, and nobody is forced to act as he has done. He's a scumbag and thats it. I can't see why just "because he is a boxer" we're all supposed to give our support or something?
Frankly, it is that which I find lamentable.
"What is he going to do if he can't box"? People flip burgers at McDonalds believe it or not... glamorous is isn't, but legal and honest it is.
The guy doesn't deserve any sympathy and he is exactly the kind of asshole that the sport doesn't need.
Posted: 26 Dec 2004, 19:34
by silkov
stujones wrote:I'm not going to contribute to the thread because I don't know the facts and I don't know the lad. However, I do object to this being over critical of the BBBoC in this delicate situation. Saying it is his only career is not exactly true - there are thousands of job vacancy's going (for people with or without job qualification). I know alot of companies or whatever will discard Booth based on his criminal record (although, I'm sure he will find some work), but then why should the BBBoC differ? There is enough criminals and bad eggs in this game as it currently stands.
Alot of people who supported Booth when he was in action will be more than happy to help him out in terms of work. I think regular work mix with a different gang of people (i.e., a building site) would be good therapy for him.
But if Nicky is too 'bad' to be allowed to fight now, what will change in 15 months time?..... boxing has been a way out of a life of crime for many, why should Nicky be denied the chance to rebuild his boxing career as part of his rehabilitation?..... surely the best outcome for both society and Nicky himself is that he reforms and stays off the gear, ...I believe his best chance of achieving that is to be allowed to box again.
Remember also that Booth has done nothing wrong in the ring... hasn't bitten anyones ears off or tried to break any opponents arms!... there are many worse people out there boxing imo...
Posted: 26 Dec 2004, 19:59
by stujones
silkov wrote:stujones wrote:I'm not going to contribute to the thread because I don't know the facts and I don't know the lad. However, I do object to this being over critical of the BBBoC in this delicate situation. Saying it is his only career is not exactly true - there are thousands of job vacancy's going (for people with or without job qualification). I know alot of companies or whatever will discard Booth based on his criminal record (although, I'm sure he will find some work), but then why should the BBBoC differ? There is enough criminals and bad eggs in this game as it currently stands.
Alot of people who supported Booth when he was in action will be more than happy to help him out in terms of work. I think regular work mix with a different gang of people (i.e., a building site) would be good therapy for him.
But if Nicky is too 'bad' to be allowed to fight now, what will change in 15 months time?..... boxing has been a way out of a life of crime for many, why should Nicky be denied the chance to rebuild his boxing career as part of his rehabilitation?..... surely the best outcome for both society and Nicky himself is that he reforms and stays off the gear, ...I believe his best chance of achieving that is to be allowed to box again.
Remember also that Booth has done nothing wrong in the ring... hasn't bitten anyones ears off or tried to break any opponents arms!... there are many worse people out there boxing imo...
Very true Silkov, but boxing hasn't "saved" Nicky and I would that a complete change would be better for his rehabilition. Perhaps the option should be available. However, if you were a bricky and commited a similar offense, would you expect them to welcome you back with open arms when you return from your time.
I disagree that boxing is his best chance of best chance of rehabilitation because he fell under the traps whilst in the middle of his successful career. He has achieved more than most and probably earned more money than most of Britains' pro's - yet he still fell under the traps.
I don't know Nicky or his background, but it would seem that his current way of life didn't stop him from temptation - and therefore requires a drastic change.
Posted: 27 Dec 2004, 21:31
by coneye
Fist of all the mans a druggie scumbag, he got put down cos he got caught, and i for one don't believe he got caught on his first offence so spare the bleeding heart syndrome , if you want to give out sympathy give it to his victims,
Secondly has just pointed out boxing won't save him, he through it away when he had a good carreer,what he wants is the adulation, thats been took away, and the junkie can't handle it, Being Nicky the boxer carries weight with the scumbag junkies , 2006 his not that far away and if he really wanted it he could be preparing now to come back drug free and fitter and stronger than ever But no he goes off the rails cos he can't get his own way . well put him back and let him stew the streets will be safer without him .
Thirdly though and a little hypocrytical the BBBof C should not really have the power to stop someone earning a living, if he done the time the crimes been paid for, Personally i believe if he took it to court , he could sue them for refusing him to earn a living , this is the track i would like to see him take , then i for one would belieive he means buisness about putting his life on track and it would be nice to see the power merchants who only weild the stick and bring out the rules when it suits them put in there place, Has far has I know its actually illigal to restict someone from plying there trade to earn a living, If a promoter is willing to employ him and a trainer is willing to train him , with a manager willing to manage him , the guy effectifly has a job to go to and the BBBC have no right to stop him working.
IF HE'S SERIOUS TAKE EM TO COURT. HE WILL WIN. Iim no lawyer but i think you'll find there just being bullies cos they can , they will lose in court
Posted: 29 Dec 2004, 05:51
by Kilburn
stujones wrote:I'm not going to contribute to the thread because I don't know the facts and I don't know the lad.
I wish a few of the more cretinous "boxing fans" around here would adopt the same stance.
Posted: 29 Dec 2004, 07:37
by nickd
Kilburn wrote:stujones wrote:I'm not going to contribute to the thread because I don't know the facts and I don't know the lad.
I wish a few of the more cretinous "boxing fans" around here would adopt the same stance.
Everyones entitled to their opinion. And although we dont know the whole story the fact is he's a bad egg hence why he's banged up at the moment. He's burgaled peoples homes for fucks sake.
Posted: 29 Dec 2004, 09:44
by Kilburn
If it were one rule for all boxers I might say fair enough, but too many people have been on Jason & Nicky's case from day 1 and it fornicating pisses me off.
Posted: 29 Dec 2004, 10:27
by JimStone
Kilburn wrote:If it were one rule for all boxers I might say fair enough, but too many people have been on Jason & Nicky's case from day 1 and it fornicating pisses me off.
It's because they're working class urban white lads (aka "Chavs"). If they were Black or Asian people would be practically forming a queue to sodomise them, as a reward for their "jive talking antics". Because of their ethnicity, sex and background (white working class male = scum, in the UK) they have been slagged off and belittled from day one.
Posted: 29 Dec 2004, 10:30
by nickd
Kilburn wrote:If it were one rule for all boxers I might say fair enough, but too many people have been on Jason & Nicky's case from day 1 and it fornicating pisses me off.
I dont see they are being treated differently to anyone else. the BBBoC dont let anyone box while they are still serving a sentence as far as I am aware. Please correct me if this is not the case.
Posted: 29 Dec 2004, 10:36
by Kilburn
I'm referring to the fans not the BBBofC.
Posted: 29 Dec 2004, 10:47
by nickd
You think? Well the fact is he's a crackhead and has thieved from innocent people which in my book makes him a bad egg. Anyone who does that sort of thing is a scumbag. People work hard all their lives for what they have and scrots like him think its ok to just walk on in and help themselves. I dont accept any excuses for that sort of behaviour crackhead or no crackhead.
Posted: 29 Dec 2004, 11:00
by JimStone
007 wrote:You think? Well the fact is he's a crackhead and has thieved from innocent people which in my book makes him a bad egg. Anyone who does that sort of thing is a scumbag. People work hard all their lives for what they have and scrots like him think its ok to just walk on in and help themselves. I dont accept any excuses for that sort of behaviour crackhead or no crackhead.
You're right not to accept excuses. But the fact is with all ethnic groups -other than whites- people do.
What's more...Nicky's mates would most probably not be a "bad crowd" if the manufacturing jobs didn't keep getting outsourced to China and they could get work. Look at the places in the North of England where the shipyards were, they are rife with Class A drug addiction because of a lack of jobs.
Jobs are running out in the UK - that's why the government are trying to get so many people to go to university and study worthless, tinpot degree courses. It keeps them out of the job centres. Globalisation and too large a population are to blame.
Posted: 29 Dec 2004, 11:09
by Kilburn
I'm not trying to condone what Nicky did, I'm just trying to point out that even before he got into serious trouble I had to endure time and again needless slaggings of the Booth Brothers - too small, too ugly, too thick, too delusional. Same old shit. The obvious natural talent that these lads had between them was too often dismissed by supposedly knowledgable boxing supporters.
And now one fucks up big time and predictably everyone pounces. Nevermind the fact that boxing is riddled with people like this who are forgiven every day. Anyone think Diego Corrales should be booted out of boxing? Nah didn't think so.
Posted: 29 Dec 2004, 11:11
by nickd
Who's saying he should be booted out of boxing? He should straighten himself out first which he obviously hasnt done as he went off the rails again as soon as things didnt go his way.
Posted: 29 Dec 2004, 11:16
by Kilburn
After the cyber-rucks I've had over the years it's clear to me that a lot of people who don't know the lad from adam would be more than happy to see the back of him.
Posted: 02 Jan 2005, 13:08
by JimmyJamJerusalem
Anybody got any blow??
Posted: 02 Jan 2005, 21:09
by JimStone
mercman wrote:007 wrote:
You think? Well the fact is he's a crackhead and has thieved from innocent people which in my book makes him a bad egg. Anyone who does that sort of thing is a scumbag. People work hard all their lives for what they have and scrots like him think its ok to just walk on in and help themselves. I dont accept any excuses for that sort of behaviour crackhead or no crackhead.
FlawedGenius wrote:You're right not to accept excuses. But the fact is with all ethnic groups -other than whites- people do.
What's more...Nicky's mates would most probably not be a "bad crowd" if the manufacturing jobs didn't keep getting outsourced to China and they could get work. Look at the places in the North of England where the shipyards were, they are rife with Class A drug addiction because of a lack of jobs.
Jobs are running out in the UK - that's why the government are trying to get so many people to go to university and study worthless, tinpot degree courses. It keeps them out of the job centres. Globalisation and too large a population are to blame.
This is a really difficult one and to a large degree I think you are right: reasonably paid, honest manual work has all but disappeared from Britain and working class males are the most affected. They have been disempowered and ,in my opinion, betrayed.
International competition and the forces of globalisation are major causes but successive British governments have done nothing to lessen their impact. In other countries governments have fought to keep their industries and taken measures to protect their workers from the impact of globalisation. Countries such as Germany and France still have large motor industries, build ships and produce lots of manufactured goods. Their governments have actively helped them to keep working. British governments have only accelerated our de-industrialisation.
The closure of the country's mines, mills, yards and factories has had a terrible impact and those now labelled as 'chavs', 'scallies' etc are basically lads that in previous decades would have been gamefully employed and kept on the straight and narrow. A regular routine, a pay packet and a bit of respect keeps most lads out of trouble.
However, whilst I agree that drugs, crime and various social problems are one consequence of unemployment and industrial decline we need to remember that there are loads of young lads who are really good kids. It seems to be that those that find something meaningful in their lives to give them discipline and structure fare best. That could be sport, music, education or some other constructive outlet. We need to encourage young lads to get involved in these things. It is easy to knock new college courses as a waste of time but industrial Britain is not going to come back and I'd rather have lads learning and gaing some self-respect than being idle and getting into trouble.
It really grieves me to see all these youngsters wasting their lives: drugged up, in and out of nick, and ruing their lives. And getting back to boxing, I do wonder if the decline in boxing is in some small way also a contributory factor to the problems in our towns and cities. I know there are some bad guys involved in boxing but traditionally it has given young working class men discipline and prestige and has helped many stay on the straight and narrow. A good boxer was always admired but I suppose in a society with guns and drugs boxing seems a bit oudated and out of place.
Good post, mercman. I agree with nearly all of it.
