Jan wrote: ↑21 Oct 2020, 05:12
Can anybody say how good vitali klitschko was as a kickboxer? did he win an important title?
When I've seen him Kickboxing he had headgear on. So no he didn't win an important title.
I would think he was decent at it. Surely a better boxer though.
he fought without head gear too
Re: Who has won titles in boxing and kickboxing?
Posted: 19 Jan 2021, 04:32
by p4p1
Paul Briggs lost 2 MD's to Adamek so came very close to winning titles in both sports.
Daniel Dawson lost to Daniel Geale but if successful would've been the first guy to win world title in boxing, KB and Muay thai.
Those are two guys that came close but no cigar.
Re: Who has won titles in boxing and kickboxing?
Posted: 19 Jan 2021, 23:39
by Perseus
p4p1 wrote: ↑19 Jan 2021, 04:32
Paul Briggs lost 2 MD's to Adamek so came very close to winning titles in both sports.
Daniel Dawson lost to Daniel Geale but if successful would've been the first guy to win world title in boxing, KB and Muay thai.
Those are two guys that came close but no cigar.
His wiki actually credits him as the first man to win world titles in all three
He won the prestigious WBF title in 2013, apparently that's good enough for wiki.
Ummm............No.
The WBF is not endorsed by the hall of fame and has not achieved general recognition as a world title by boxing media, networks or fans.
Re: Who has won titles in boxing and kickboxing?
Posted: 22 Feb 2021, 17:21
by Crease
Hmmm... Initially coming to mind are:
Vitali Klitchsko
Matt Skelton
Dillian Whyte
Marco Huck
And... Didn't Sakio Bika fight in kickboxing?
Then there's the likes of famous kickboxers who have fought in boxing - John Wayne Parr & Yodsanklai Fairtex...
Did Semmy Schilt have a boxing fight? I think he did...
And what of Bas Rutten?
Re: Who has won titles in boxing and kickboxing?
Posted: 22 Feb 2021, 17:25
by Crease
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑19 Jan 2020, 12:44Part of the confusion for me is knowing which kickboxing orgs are actually pro...there are so many lol.
I know a kickboxing promoter who works with the World Kickboxing Network (WKN) and we have spoken about this at length...
The simple truth is that there just isn't enough money to unify and align all the world bodies in to one organisation. Also, kickboxing and ither stand-up striking sports seem to have new associations springing up out of the woodwork every five years or so...
Re: Who has won titles in boxing and kickboxing?
Posted: 22 Feb 2021, 17:44
by Crease
gilgamesh wrote: ↑19 Jan 2020, 12:52Then as far as Thailand goes there's a couple of stadiums that are synonymous with it like being the Champion of Lumpini Stadium (which essentially means you're the Champion of Muay Thai, at least in your weight class)
It's a fascinating system that they have in Lumpinee stadium...
You are definitely right by bringing it up becauss all of the guys who are invited to fight there are considered The Gold Standard of Muay Thai...
But, it's very confusing and it can become very messy trying to decipher the rankings.
I have spoken to multiple guys who have trained in Thailand and yes - fighting at Lumpinee is the biggest deal out. And winning there does give you a profile and all the fans seem to know who the Champions are. But it's all over the place in an organisational sense.
They have multiple titles in weight classes just basically called the same thing and multiple fighters can be a Lumpinee Champion at the same time. So, let's say for example -
Mr Gilgamesh wins his fight and is awarded a belt and announced to be Lumpinee Middleweight Champion.
That could happen at the start of the month then Mr X has a fight in the 3rd week of the month, wins his bout and is given a belt and declared Lumpinee Middleweight Champion.
That is why there is no clear lineage in these belts... Yes, it is the highest standard of Muay Thai out there, but realistically you could have a guy win a belt, then defend it four times - and he is called a "five time Lumpinee Champion"
I don't know if they give him a belt every time he wins, but I have seen pics with Thai fighters with multiple belts, so maybe they do... But yeah, I'm not sure on that...
What I will say is that it's brutal, the speed and ferocity of these guys is incredibly intense and really - they do it for peanuts... That's way they have to keep fighting and have like 100s of bouts...
gilgamesh wrote: ↑19 Jan 2020, 12:52Then as far as Thailand goes there's a couple of stadiums that are synonymous with it like being the Champion of Lumpini Stadium (which essentially means you're the Champion of Muay Thai, at least in your weight class)
It's a fascinating system that they have in Lumpinee stadium...
You are definitely right by bringing it up becauss all of the guys who are invited to fight there are considered The Gold Standard of Muay Thai...
But, it's very confusing and it can become very messy trying to decipher the rankings.
I have spoken to multiple guys who have trained in Thailand and yes - fighting at Lumpinee is the biggest deal out. And winning there does give you a profile and all the fans seem to know who the Champions are. But it's all over the place in an organisational sense.
They have multiple titles in weight classes just basically called the same thing and multiple fighters can be a Lumpinee Champion at the same time. So, let's say for example -
Mr Gilgamesh wins his fight and is awarded a belt and announced to be Lumpinee Middleweight Champion.
That could happen at the start of the month then Mr X has a fight in the 3rd week of the month, wins his bout and is given a belt and declared Lumpinee Middleweight Champion.
That is why there is no clear lineage in these belts... Yes, it is the highest standard of Muay Thai out there, but realistically you could have a guy win a belt, then defend it four times - and he is called a "five time Lumpinee Champion"
I don't know if they give him a belt every time he wins, but I have seen pics with Thai fighters with multiple belts, so maybe they do... But yeah, I'm not sure on that...
What I will say is that it's brutal, the speed and ferocity of these guys is incredibly intense and really - they do it for peanuts... That's way they have to keep fighting and have like 100s of bouts...
Are you sure about that Crease? As far as I am aware the Lumpinee championship is lineal. It is THE title to have in MT.
I know they do big shows on the kings birthday in a tournament style which has a belt for the champion but I'm not sure if the lineal champions belts are on the line? I don't know for sure I just always thought the titles were lineal?
Every stadium has a championship and fighters can be the champion of more than one stadium. So it makes sense that some fighters collect them like infinity stones. A lot of the Thais are also in the lighter weight were there is only a couple of lbs between the weight classes. I believe they can also hold multiple weight class titles at once. They all fight so much that not being able to defend the title because they're defending another title isn't an issue. I always figured with multiple champions, they fight so often that they're bound to drop a fight or two and regain the title.
Re: Who has won titles in boxing and kickboxing?
Posted: 02 Feb 2023, 08:03
by chinarich
Matt Skelton won the IKF title in kick-boxing (I have no idea how well-regarded that is) as well as British, Commonwealth, European and (ahem) WBU titles in boxing...
Re: Who has won titles in boxing and kickboxing?
Posted: 02 Feb 2023, 10:30
by Teddy's Toupee
Jonathan Thaxton?
Re: Who has won titles in boxing and kickboxing?
Posted: 02 Feb 2023, 13:52
by JamesPhilips
No sure about titles but Tex Cobb….
James warring and Troy Dorsey for sure.
Pele Reid was a kick-boxer. Knocked out Vitali (in semi contact).
I think Nigel Benn started in kick-boxing, as an amateur.
There are loads that tried both but few win titles in both.
Anderson Silva. Aleksandr Ustinov. Mike Perry. Loads of East Europeans seems to do it.
Maris Breidis
Re: Who has won titles in boxing and kickboxing?
Posted: 02 Feb 2023, 15:38
by margaret thatcher
ustinov was a really good kickboxer, he was in way better shape in those days and moved a lot better. his technique much better suited to that sport. yet he quit when he was on a great run and had won multiple k1 events. i guess you gotta be one of the absolute elite p4p guys in kickboxing to make it work financially
Re: Who has won titles in boxing and kickboxing?
Posted: 03 Feb 2023, 14:13
by JamesPhilips
Jarell Miller did K1
Re: Who has won titles in boxing and kickboxing?
Posted: 11 Feb 2023, 17:32
by leejonesjnr
'Professional' Kickboxing is run in more or less the same way that unlicensed boxing is, there's no money in it, no real interest from people that don't know one of the competitors personally and a million organisations and rule sets.
There are exceptions of course but these are more along the lines of promotions rather than the sport as a whole, Glory, K-1 and the like.
WAKO Pro, ISKA, WKA, WKU, WKN, WPKA etc etc etc etc etc etc etc would regularly have 'world championship' fights between two men from the same town in a working mans club.
Pele Reid famously KOd Vitali at the WAKO amateur championships
Frans Botha competed in K-1 though I don't think he ever won anything
Re: Who has won titles in boxing and kickboxing?
Posted: 11 Feb 2023, 21:13
by HomicideHenry
K1 was the only kickboxing organization that I ever looked at as being for the world's championship. I will say it is more disorganized than professional boxing is where there are many people claiming to be the world's champion in kickboxing and yet they never face each other.
To add on to the confusion an awful lot of kickboxers go into Muay Thai competitions like Jorina Baars, who in my opinion has the best argument for being the greatest kickboxer of all time regardless of her being a woman.
I think really the only difference between kickboxing and Muay Thai is the inclusion of knees and elbows and perhaps specialty punches like the spinning back fist. Kind of funny but I think there is over 180 different martial arts disciplines and really the only things that are different between them all is the inclusion of one aspect of fighting.
I'm reminded of the early days of MMA where shoot boxing was basically the forerunner of having multiple disciplines under your belt. Then again that particular style also originated in professional wrestling with people like Bart Vale representing that particular style.
Re: Who has won titles in boxing and kickboxing?
Posted: 12 Feb 2023, 20:14
by p4p1
HomicideHenry wrote: ↑11 Feb 2023, 21:13
K1 was the only kickboxing organization that I ever looked at as being for the world's championship. I will say it is more disorganized than professional boxing is where there are many people claiming to be the world's champion in kickboxing and yet they never face each other.
To add on to the confusion an awful lot of kickboxers go into Muay Thai competitions like Jorina Baars, who in my opinion has the best argument for being the greatest kickboxer of all time regardless of her being a woman.
I think really the only difference between kickboxing and Muay Thai is the inclusion of knees and elbows and perhaps specialty punches like the spinning back fist. Kind of funny but I think there is over 180 different martial arts disciplines and really the only things that are different between them all is the inclusion of one aspect of fighting.
I'm reminded of the early days of MMA where shoot boxing was basically the forerunner of having multiple disciplines under your belt. Then again that particular style also originated in professional wrestling with people like Bart Vale representing that particular style.
Shoot Boxing was actually a really interesting style. I believe K'1 rules with standing submissions? It did add a cool element to the fighting. A mate of mine fought Andy Souwer (sp?) who was the king of the style and should have got the decision in a close fight.
K-1 was a clear pinnacle of the sport but winning K1 also relied on your run through the night. If you had a tough first fight compared to a guy who got a quick KO or something it would or could impact the results heavily.
HomicideHenry wrote: ↑11 Feb 2023, 21:13
K1 was the only kickboxing organization that I ever looked at as being for the world's championship. I will say it is more disorganized than professional boxing is where there are many people claiming to be the world's champion in kickboxing and yet they never face each other.
To add on to the confusion an awful lot of kickboxers go into Muay Thai competitions like Jorina Baars, who in my opinion has the best argument for being the greatest kickboxer of all time regardless of her being a woman.
I think really the only difference between kickboxing and Muay Thai is the inclusion of knees and elbows and perhaps specialty punches like the spinning back fist. Kind of funny but I think there is over 180 different martial arts disciplines and really the only things that are different between them all is the inclusion of one aspect of fighting.
I'm reminded of the early days of MMA where shoot boxing was basically the forerunner of having multiple disciplines under your belt. Then again that particular style also originated in professional wrestling with people like Bart Vale representing that particular style.
Shoot Boxing was actually a really interesting style. I believe K'1 rules with standing submissions? It did add a cool element to the fighting. A mate of mine fought Andy Souwer (sp?) who was the king of the style and should have got the decision in a close fight.
K-1 was a clear pinnacle of the sport but winning K1 also relied on your run through the night. If you had a tough first fight compared to a guy who got a quick KO or something it would or could impact the results heavily.
Damnedest thing I ever saw was Ernesto Hoost getting the crap kicked out of him by Bob Sapp and being eliminated from the tournament only to be allowed back in cuz Bob Sapp could not continue and Ernesto ended up winning the title. That was the greatest K1 event in my opinion.
HomicideHenry wrote: ↑11 Feb 2023, 21:13
K1 was the only kickboxing organization that I ever looked at as being for the world's championship. I will say it is more disorganized than professional boxing is where there are many people claiming to be the world's champion in kickboxing and yet they never face each other.
To add on to the confusion an awful lot of kickboxers go into Muay Thai competitions like Jorina Baars, who in my opinion has the best argument for being the greatest kickboxer of all time regardless of her being a woman.
I think really the only difference between kickboxing and Muay Thai is the inclusion of knees and elbows and perhaps specialty punches like the spinning back fist. Kind of funny but I think there is over 180 different martial arts disciplines and really the only things that are different between them all is the inclusion of one aspect of fighting.
I'm reminded of the early days of MMA where shoot boxing was basically the forerunner of having multiple disciplines under your belt. Then again that particular style also originated in professional wrestling with people like Bart Vale representing that particular style.
Shoot Boxing was actually a really interesting style. I believe K'1 rules with standing submissions? It did add a cool element to the fighting. A mate of mine fought Andy Souwer (sp?) who was the king of the style and should have got the decision in a close fight.
K-1 was a clear pinnacle of the sport but winning K1 also relied on your run through the night. If you had a tough first fight compared to a guy who got a quick KO or something it would or could impact the results heavily.
Damnedest thing I ever saw was Ernesto Hoost getting the crap kicked out of him by Bob Sapp and being eliminated from the tournament only to be allowed back in cuz Bob Sapp could not continue and Ernesto ended up winning the title. That was the greatest K1 event in my opinion.
K1 was amazing. I genuinely think if you put UFC's marketing team and production behind a modified MT rules it could be huge. I know Glory is the big one now but it just doesn't seem to be as big as K1 was.
Shoot Boxing was actually a really interesting style. I believe K'1 rules with standing submissions? It did add a cool element to the fighting. A mate of mine fought Andy Souwer (sp?) who was the king of the style and should have got the decision in a close fight.
K-1 was a clear pinnacle of the sport but winning K1 also relied on your run through the night. If you had a tough first fight compared to a guy who got a quick KO or something it would or could impact the results heavily.
Damnedest thing I ever saw was Ernesto Hoost getting the crap kicked out of him by Bob Sapp and being eliminated from the tournament only to be allowed back in cuz Bob Sapp could not continue and Ernesto ended up winning the title. That was the greatest K1 event in my opinion.
K1 was amazing. I genuinely think if you put UFC's marketing team and production behind a modified MT rules it could be huge. I know Glory is the big one now but it just doesn't seem to be as big as K1 was.
Unfortunately none of the kickboxing organizations quite reach the heights that K1 had. Bellator does kickboxing too, but I think it's seen more as a novelty than anything else. I remember as a kid watching a lot of kickboxing matches with Rick Roufus, but I'm not sure what organization put those matches together. Probably PKA or something to that effect.
Damnedest thing I ever saw was Ernesto Hoost getting the crap kicked out of him by Bob Sapp and being eliminated from the tournament only to be allowed back in cuz Bob Sapp could not continue and Ernesto ended up winning the title. That was the greatest K1 event in my opinion.
K1 was amazing. I genuinely think if you put UFC's marketing team and production behind a modified MT rules it could be huge. I know Glory is the big one now but it just doesn't seem to be as big as K1 was.
Unfortunately none of the kickboxing organizations quite reach the heights that K1 had. Bellator does kickboxing too, but I think it's seen more as a novelty than anything else. I remember as a kid watching a lot of kickboxing matches with Rick Roufus, but I'm not sure what organization put those matches together. Probably PKAUS or something to that effect.
There is just way too many orgs for anyone to understand what is going on, or for someone to be able to make themselves a household name. We had some biggish names here in Aus for a while. It was better to watch than the local boxing because it was always (at least on paper) evenly matched fights, the action was great and the commentators drew you in with their own excitement.
K1 was amazing. I genuinely think if you put UFC's marketing team and production behind a modified MT rules it could be huge. I know Glory is the big one now but it just doesn't seem to be as big as K1 was.
Unfortunately none of the kickboxing organizations quite reach the heights that K1 had. Bellator does kickboxing too, but I think it's seen more as a novelty than anything else. I remember as a kid watching a lot of kickboxing matches with Rick Roufus, but I'm not sure what organization put those matches together. Probably PKAUS or something to that effect.
There is just way too many orgs for anyone to understand what is going on, or for someone to be able to make themselves a household name. We had some biggish names here in Aus for a while. It was better to watch than the local boxing because it was always (at least on paper) evenly matched fights, the action was great and the commentators drew you in with their own excitement.
This guy IMO was just great.
You bringing up the Australian martial arts or kickboxing scene reminds me of an old BoxRec poster by the name of Kym Robinson, who is pretty knowledgeable on boxing and had a pretty good kickboxing and MMA record as a professional.
Re: Who has won titles in boxing and kickboxing?
Posted: 18 Feb 2023, 13:12
by Steveh583
I used to really enjoy the glory kickboxing format. It was thrill a minute.
Re: Who has won titles in boxing and kickboxing?
Posted: 11 May 2023, 05:20
by chinarich
I think Carl Thompson was a Muay Thai world champion before boxing, then of course he held the WBO and IBO Cruiserweight titles.
Re: Who has won titles in boxing and kickboxing?
Posted: 11 May 2023, 22:50
by margaret thatcher
mark hunt is so mean 'he'd send a get well card to a hypochondriac' that is some next level stuff right there
Re: Who has won titles in boxing and kickboxing?
Posted: 16 May 2023, 19:07
by Perseus
chinarich wrote: ↑11 May 2023, 05:20
I think Carl Thompson was a Muay Thai world champion before boxing, then of course he held the WBO and IBO Cruiserweight titles.
His wiki says he had two fights for MT world titles but lost both.
