BoxRec

So hasim rahman is a sure fire hof by these standards. Right?

Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑25 Apr 2020, 17:59 So hasim rahman is a sure fire hof by these standards. Right?

Very good point, he beat a greater fighter.

He also KO''d the legendary Corrie Sanders, cult hero of Internet boxing forums

Exactly thats vitalis best win. Let's write our congressman or whatever and get rock in the hall fellas

Rock is a real cool dude.

While I personally would say no on Buster, there are two ways of looking at it:

You can say that, just because they have some bad choices already in the hall, that doesn't mean you should dilute it any further by putting someone who, looking at their whole career, was definitely not a great fighter.

But the other way to look at it is the hall has already established a certain minimum standard for entry and for heavyweights that minimum standard would be the likes of Jack Sharkey, Ingemar Johansson and Ken Norton. So then the question is how does Douglas stack up against those names?

To me, Norton is the most apt comparison. He's best known for one big win, though he had a couple of other good performances against name fighters. But he never actually won the heavyweight title, was just granted the WBC portion when Ali was stripped by them, and he never successfully defended it. My gut tells me Norton definitely ranks ahead of Douglas but on their records it may be a little closer than imagined.

Which is why I choose option 1 and say don't dilute the thing any further. But the way things are, Buster probably will get in at some point.

Guess I agree with the consensus that Buster would not be the worst guy in if he got in. He had one great win and a few very good ones. There are at least three heavyweights that are in that weren't able do that. ( I wasn't thinking of Sharkey, Johansson, or Norton.)

However, when people are voting for the HOF, his competition won't be undeserving guys that are already in. He will be compared to guys not in yet. There are some that are more deserving.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑25 Apr 2020, 20:27 Guess I agree with the consensus that Buster would not be the worst guy in if he got in. He had one great win and a few very good ones. There are at least three heavyweights that are in that weren't able do that. ( I wasn't thinking of Sharkey, Johansson, or Norton.)

However, when people are voting for the HOF, his competition won't be undeserving guys that are already in. He will be compared to guys not in yet. There are some that are more deserving.

I'll bite, which three? Depends on what we're calling a "great" win I suppose.

'Very good' is a stretch for his best non Tyson wins, they were solid but not very relevant at hof level

No. BUSTER should not be in. IF he gets in, then guys like Ernesto Marcel and Esteban De Jesus should be in a long time ago.

I'd have him in because it took some huge shot of concentrated greatness to pull Tokyo off, but happy to go along with the consensus, which is clearly a big fat no.

Onamastus wrote: ↑26 Apr 2020, 04:51 I'd have him in because it took some huge shot of concentrated greatness to pull Tokyo off, but happy to go along with the consensus, which is clearly a big fat no.

F@ck the consensus, you do you

Norton had close split decision losses against Muhammad Ali and a prime Larry Holmes. Even though Douglas beat Tyson during Tyson's prime years, Tyson wasn't mentally or physically prepared like he should have been. And then Douglas was very out of shape for his first defense against Holyfield. I don't think Douglas will ever be inducted into the HOF.

RScarf1 wrote: ↑26 Apr 2020, 06:45 Norton had close split decision losses against Muhammad Ali and a prime Larry Holmes. Even though Douglas beat Tyson during Tyson's prime years, Tyson wasn't mentally or physically prepared like he should have been. And then Douglas was very out of shape for his first defense against Holyfield. I don't think Douglas will ever be inducted into the HOF.

Norton overall is far more accomplished than Douglas. He was at the very top for quite a while. His wins over Young and Quarry are also bigger, than anything Douglas did, except dethroning Tyson.

Onamastus wrote: ↑25 Apr 2020, 16:25 I get the arguments against him but his win over Tyson is bigger than 20 defences against good opponents. Fighting prime Holyfield will end nearly everybody's reign, be it six months or 10 years.

But it's not like Douglas did anything after that. He had a good win or two before beating Tyson but I don;'t think either he nor Leon should be in The Hall. Granted, Douglas at his best was better than Leon at his best.

Tony1244 wrote: ↑26 Apr 2020, 11:42

Onamastus wrote: ↑25 Apr 2020, 16:25 I get the arguments against him but his win over Tyson is bigger than 20 defences against good opponents. Fighting prime Holyfield will end nearly everybody's reign, be it six months or 10 years.

But it's not like Douglas did anything after that. He had a good win or two before beating Tyson but I don;'t think either he nor Leon should be in The Hall. Granted, Douglas at his best was better than Leon at his best.

After a 24m payday I'd never do anything again either. In fact I'd probably end up just like Buster. 400lbs, and in a coma.

mjaco wrote: ↑25 Apr 2020, 20:39

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑25 Apr 2020, 20:27 Guess I agree with the consensus that Buster would not be the worst guy in if he got in. He had one great win and a few very good ones. There are at least three heavyweights that are in that weren't able do that. ( I wasn't thinking of Sharkey, Johansson, or Norton.)

However, when people are voting for the HOF, his competition won't be undeserving guys that are already in. He will be compared to guys not in yet. There are some that are more deserving.

I'll bite, which three? Depends on what we're calling a "great" win I suppose.

Willard, Braddock, and he who shall not be named. If you really pushed it, I guess you count Willard's and Braddock's title victories. They certainly don't equal Douglas beating Tyson. Braddock's and Willard's best other wins aren't as good as Douglas' best other wins either.

Onamastus wrote: ↑26 Apr 2020, 13:49

Tony1244 wrote: ↑26 Apr 2020, 11:42

But it's not like Douglas did anything after that. He had a good win or two before beating Tyson but I don;'t think either he nor Leon should be in The Hall. Granted, Douglas at his best was better than Leon at his best.

After a 24m payday I'd never do anything again either. In fact I'd probably end up just like Buster. 400lbs, and in a coma.

Can't say I would either. That's what separates people like us and Douglas from hofers like holyfield.

I came here with an opinion and then I read the posts. I found myself bouncing back and forth. What tips it for me is that I think the guy pulled off the biggest upset in the history of athletics. Not just boxing, not just professional athletics, the biggest upset in the history of sport. He gets my vote.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑26 Apr 2020, 18:00

Onamastus wrote: ↑26 Apr 2020, 13:49

After a 24m payday I'd never do anything again either. In fact I'd probably end up just like Buster. 400lbs, and in a coma.

Can't say I would either. That's what separates people like us and Douglas from hofers like holyfield.

I'd cut it down the middle. I'd invest the money conservatively, not fight again, but stay in shape with boxing workouts.

Tony1244 wrote: ↑26 Apr 2020, 21:21

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑26 Apr 2020, 18:00

Can't say I would either. That's what separates people like us and Douglas from hofers like holyfield.

I'd cut it down the middle. I'd invest the money conservatively, not fight again, but stay in shape with boxing workouts.

I'd never go into a fight that out of shape.

Im vain enough that if I were going to be on tv i wouldn't show up with man boobs
But hey thats me.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑26 Apr 2020, 21:23

Tony1244 wrote: ↑26 Apr 2020, 21:21

I'd cut it down the middle. I'd invest the money conservatively, not fight again, but stay in shape with boxing workouts.

I'd never go into a fight that out of shape.

Yeah, it would have been better if Buster took it "the limit one more time," trained for Holy like he did for Tyson telling himself this is his last fight.

His lack of effort in the Holyfield fight hurts his case. If he would have gave a decent effort and lost, he would not be ridiculed as much as he is.
He was capable of giving Holyfield a tough fight. He didn't train enough, and he made little effort in the fight.

The hall of fame is what it is - a hall of FAME.

Yes - Douglas should be in. He caused the biggest upset in boxing history against a guy who, at the time, was considered unbeatable.

The IBHOF did lose credibilty though when they inducted Rocky Balboa ... but, hey, some people do actually think he was real !