BoxRec

oogiebe wrote: ↑27 Apr 2020, 20:42

Scypion wrote: ↑27 Apr 2020, 20:20 Apparently, Valdez was almost as good as Monzon, who was arguably the greatest middleweight ever. I believe that Rodrigo would have given Hagler a tough fight. I believe that ring wear and tear caught up with Valdez, especially after going 15 rounds with Monzon twice and Briscoe recently., before Corro.
I hope that both Kingpetch and Valdez get voted into the IBHOF soon.



soe rece
ntlyu

Valdez was a great fighter, but he fought Monzon at Carlos' twilight.

Monzon was almost 35 in his last fight but he could still beat any middleweight around. Valdez could beat any middleweight other than Carlos then.

Scypion wrote: ↑28 Apr 2020, 21:44

oogiebe wrote: ↑27 Apr 2020, 20:42
Valdez was a great fighter, but he fought Monzon at Carlos' twilight.

Monzon was almost 35 in his last fight but he could still beat any middleweight around. Valdez could beat any middleweight other than Carlos then.

Monzon one of my fav all time. top five. Some days number one.

I’d put Valdez in, but I was at comment that he only held the undisputed middleweight belt for a short while. Under that criteria almost nobody in the last 30 or so years would get into the HOF. In this era of 4-6 belts per weight class Valdez likely would have 3-4 division belts. The only time I saw him badly beaten was the second Corro fight, when he fought like he was 45. In his prime, dude would have beaten anyone at 160 in recent years

That said, I’d go with Laciar. Underrated because he fought at 112-115, he fought most of his big fights on the road, which is often ignored. Watch some of his title fights. Deserves to be in the hall

Apparently Laciar had a good chin, having never been stopped in over 100 fights.

Monzon and Valdez both had great chins and I think that they both proved it with their two 15 round fights with each other. It was almost impossible to KO either one of them. Valdez looked like he might have been winning their first fight until he was knocked down in the 14th round.



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giacomino wrote: ↑28 Apr 2020, 22:23 I’d put Valdez in, but I was at comment that he only held the undisputed middleweight belt for a short while. Under that criteria almost nobody in the last 30 or so years would get into the HOF. In this era of 4-6 belts per weight class Valdez likely would have 3-4 division belts. The only time I saw him badly beaten was the second Corro fight, when he fought like he was 45. In his prime, dude would have beaten anyone at 160 in recent years

That said, I’d go with Laciar. Underrated because he fought at 112-115, he fought most of his big fights on the road, which is often ignored. Watch some of his title fights. Deserves to be in the hall

Actually, my comment was that he wasn't a true champion because he held an alphabet title while pretty much everyone recognized Monzon as the real champion. But as Scypion correctly pointed out, Valdes did actually hold the undisputed crown, though he still never won it by defeating a champion. He won an eliminator versus Briscoe and then lost it immediately to Corro. As for the fighters from the last 30 years, titles are now virtually meaningless anyway. We are living in a post world title era when so-called "world championships" are all but worthless with 68 of them floating around. Even most of the top fighters don't care about them anymore with a lot of them abdicating a belt as soon as they win it to jump to another weight class. Weight classes, for that matter, don't count for much anymore. Better to simply talk about which fighter is the best fighter in a general weight range, like saying Alvarez is probably the best in the general middleweight range (from say junior middleweight to super middleweight) than to even bother mentioning divisions and titles anymore.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑27 Apr 2020, 21:49 I certainly never put guys in because they're more deserving than a previous mistake. With vitali in there it would be like the running of the bulls.

Admittedly, Rodrigo doesn't have a ton of depth. He has 3 wins over briscoe and 2 very good losses to a legend that are better than most fighters best win.

He's nortonish, maybe a tier below. Definitely not a slam dunk though I imagine he has other wins to list that I'm forgetting.

There you go. I didn't vote for Norton when he was voted in and I still don't really see him as a hall of famer. But the vibe I seem to be getting is that most people feel Valdes is worthy of inclusion in the IBHOF compared to who's in there, but not necessarily in more exclusive company, like the Boxrec HOF (Boxrec HOF has 124 members while the IBHOF has around 260 members). He might have a case for IBHOF inclusion if you want to consider who's already in there but I can't see him in the company of the 124 in the Boxrec hall. Besides Monzon, Corro, Briscoe and Vinnie Curto (who I had to Google to remind me why I even know his name) he fought zero fighters I ever heard of (actually I also know Bobby Cassidy but mainly as a trainer and also because I used to work with his son). Ultimately, to me, you have to fight and beat a lot of really terrific fighters to be considered a true great. In my estimation he was very good but not great. And I just feel like any athletic hall of fame should be a hall of greatness, not a hall of very goodness.

If the vibe you're getting is the exact opposite of what I said, we're done here. Have a nice day.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑30 Apr 2020, 09:58 If the vibe you're getting is the exact opposite of what I said, we're done here. Have a nice day.

First of all, I said from "most people" I didn't say specifically you. Second of all, I didn't get any vibe from you since you never bothered to fully answer the question I posed. Now we're done here.

mjaco wrote: ↑30 Apr 2020, 10:11

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑30 Apr 2020, 09:58 If the vibe you're getting is the exact opposite of what I said, we're done here. Have a nice day.

First of all, I said from "most people" I didn't say specifically you. Second of all, I didn't get any vibe from you since you never bothered to fully answer the question I posed. Now we're done here.

mjaco wrote: ↑30 Apr 2020, 10:11

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑30 Apr 2020, 09:58 If the vibe you're getting is the exact opposite of what I said, we're done here. Have a nice day.

First of all, I said from "most people" I didn't say specifically you. Second of all, I didn't get any vibe from you since you never bothered to fully answer the question I posed. Now we're done here.

Thanks for reiterating that I'm done with you.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑30 Apr 2020, 10:37

mjaco wrote: ↑30 Apr 2020, 10:11

First of all, I said from "most people" I didn't say specifically you. Second of all, I didn't get any vibe from you since you never bothered to fully answer the question I posed. Now we're done here.

Thanks for reiterating that I'm done with you.

Rodrigo Valdez was better than some (or many) of the boxers already in the IBHOF, but that isn't the only reason that I believe that he belongs in the Hall. Valdez was a great fighter. He not only had a great chin, but he could really hit (nearly 60% KO's of his opponents). It was his bad luck to be around the same time as Monzon. People that don't agree should watch his second fight with Bad Bennie Briscoe. I just watched that fight and Valdez really looked good.I think that one thing that hurt him was being from Columbia. Anyway, I believe that Rodrigo Valdez belongs in the IBHOF simply because he was a great fighter.





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Marlon Starling

RScarf1 wrote: ↑02 May 2020, 14:33 Marlon Starling

Starling was a good one. I suspect he will get into the IBHOF sometime in the next few years.

Really? He strikes me more as someone whose chances are dropping each year, I pretty much never hear about him anymore and have rarely seen anyone argue his case. Compare that to guys like Julian Jackson and more recently Hamed who didn't get inducted at first but had loads of ppl saying they should get in

Wins over Breland, Brown, and Honeyghan....good enough for a borderline claim but I'd guess he doesn't get in. He was solid in his losses too.

Most deserving Old Timer. Jimmy Leto or Frankie Burns.
Modern Era. Probably Veeraphol Sahaprom.

Scypion wrote: ↑27 Apr 2020, 20:20 Apparently, Valdez was almost as good as Monzon, who was arguably the greatest middleweight ever. I believe that Rodrigo would have given Hagler a tough fight. I believe that ring wear and tear caught up with Valdez, especially after going 15 rounds with Monzon twice and Briscoe recently., before Corro.
I hope that both Kingpetch and Valdez get voted into the IBHOF soon.



soe rece
ntlyu

I think Kingpetch should get in as well

mjaco wrote: ↑25 Apr 2020, 17:28 Was reading the thread on whether Buster Douglas deserves to be in the hall of fame (and in my opinion he does not) but it got me to thinking about who does deserve to be in. As someone who used to vote for the IBHOF, I know better than most there are a lot of boxers in the hall who probably don't deserve to be there but I also understand the reasons why they are there.

But the question I'd like to put forth is, which one fighter who's eligible for election (I think you need to be retired for 5 years) is most deserving for induction? To me there's one, and only one, glaring omission from the hall, and that's Thai flyweight Pone Kingpetch. While his career record is only 28-7, he was the first fighter to win the world flyweight championship 3 times (all 3 were undisputed I believe). He also has a record of 3-1 against fighters who are currently in the hall of fame. Flyweights are historically always overlooked and if he'd fought in a higher weight class, I'd have to imagine he'd definitely be in by now.

If no one can come up with a fighter more deserving, I'd urge all readers to write their political representatives (or local boxing writer) and tell them to finally put poor PK in the hall.

If you need to refresh your memory on who is and isn't in the International Boxing Hall of Fame, you can find the full list of inductees here http://www.ibhof.com/pages/about/induct ... index.html

Hiroyuki Ebihara, twice an opponent of Kingpetch, is more deserving.

2 of the 3 wins you mention on Kingpetch's record over HOF opposition are highly disputed, as well as his victory in the rematch with Ebihara (after Ebihara KO'd him in the first round of their initial encounter).

There are so many candidates, several of whom have already been mentioned. My choice is somebody who is in already, but as a non-participant. I think sometimes we forget what a good boxer he was in his prime: Jack Blackburn.

Gilberto Roman & Esteban De Jesus

Agree about Ebihara. He was the victim of bad decisions in title fights at least twice, that was against Kingpetch and Accavallo.

Seamus wrote: ↑23 Jun 2020, 09:01 Agree about Ebihara. He was the victim of bad decisions in title fights at least twice, that was against Kingpetch and Accavallo.

Still far too slept on as an all time great Flyweight and one of the all time great Japanese champions.