BoxRec

gilgamesh wrote: ↑26 May 2020, 18:40

computerrank wrote: ↑26 May 2020, 17:51
No, no Super Heavyweight. No hulks. No plat-footed overwhelming. Boxing is agility, speed and endurance.

Set an upper limit of 200 lbs for the Heavyweight. No boxer above should be egligable for boxing.
And have:
Flyweight up to 112 lbs
Bantamweight up top 118 lbs
Featherweight up to 126 lbs
Lightweight up to 135 lbs
Welterweight up to 147 lbs
Middleweight up to 160 lbs
Light Heavyweight up to 175 lbs
Heavyweight up to 200 lbs

I agree with all that except for I'd keep Strawweight because even greats like Jimmy Wilde supposedly weighed less than 105 pounds a lot of the time, and I don't mind Cruiserweight existing either. Though if it ceased to exist it wouldn't break my heart.

I do not agree with a 200 pound limit. The best HW boxers have been over 200. There need not be any top limit.
Beyond a certain weight, size holds you back. Over 275 and you are fighting the weight as well as the other guy.

Fox News Sports Roundup.

Recently fans of boxing have been debating the possibility of an additional division in boxing. This question could have remained unanswered for some time yet, but thankfully it looks like we've now got a direct line to the WBC president himself.

Shall we hear what this great servant of boxing has got to say on this new possibly controversial subject? OK. Here's Maurice.


"Hello my friends. I wish to thank you for your great support and interest in furthering my bank bal- err I mean the great tradition of boxing.

I understand there are a few concerns over the proliferation of existing sanctioning bodies. I wish the fans to feel reassured that if I had it my way there would only be one, or that most two, like in the good old days of the WBC and WBA. Furthermore any attempt to increase the numbers will result in possible legal action. Forgive my expression, but my lawyers will see the bastards in court.

However since we don't wish to deprive you fans of the entertainment that only boxing can bring, especially after the terrible recent financial, err I mean health disaster that has befallen our most noble sport. We know you are as eager as we are to get things restarted.

Despite our occasional differences of opinion my good friends, Oscar, Mr Haymon, Mr Arum and I all agree on this important matter.

Therefore I want you all to rest assured that we are definitely looking into the creation of a Super Heavyweight division as soon as possible, to be followed by a possible King Kong division. If I was to let you in on a secret, there may even be a further division sponsored by our friends at Goodyear, but I will need to speak to close friend Jarrell first. These things, including various belt sizes all need to be carefully measured first.

Finally, I wish to thank you for your mone-, I mean support, and assure you all that we will leave no stone unturned in our efforts to give you want we, I mean you want. Sorry, but my English isn't always what I would like it to be. Neither is always my Spanish, but that's another matter.

Thank you. Thank you. "


Yes, thank you Maurice. Now let's get back to the latest news headlines, you know you want to.

Sad but true. No fan and I mean ZERO real boxing fans want another division.

No !

This is the first time I have seen 100% agreement on boxrec.

Take your Super HW division and shove it up your ass.*

That is addressed to any sleezebag that is promoting it.

Rather than adding they should eliminate: Super, Interim, Regular, Aztec......etc.

snake33 wrote: ↑27 May 2020, 12:11 Rather than adding they should eliminate: Super, Interim, Regular, Aztec......etc.

YES!!!!

snake33 wrote: ↑27 May 2020, 12:11 Rather than adding they should eliminate: Super, Interim, Regular, Aztec......etc.

Also eliminate the WBC, WBA, IBF, and WBO

Take the various titleholders, and other Top 10 contenders to fill out a bracket, Fight a Tournament to crown 1 True Champion, and there's your lineage.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑27 May 2020, 14:11

snake33 wrote: ↑27 May 2020, 12:11 Rather than adding they should eliminate: Super, Interim, Regular, Aztec......etc.

Also eliminate the WBC, WBA, IBF, and WBO

Take the various titleholders, and other Top 10 contenders to fill out a bracket, Fight a Tournament to crown 1 True Champion, and there's your lineage.

Shhhh wrote: ↑28 May 2020, 04:40

computerrank wrote: ↑26 May 2020, 17:51
No, no Super Heavyweight. No hulks. No plat-footed overwhelming. Boxing is agility, speed and endurance.

Set an upper limit of 200 lbs for the Heavyweight. No boxer above should be egligable for boxing.
And have:
Flyweight up to 112 lbs
Bantamweight up top 118 lbs
Featherweight up to 126 lbs
Lightweight up to 135 lbs
Welterweight up to 147 lbs
Middleweight up to 160 lbs
Light Heavyweight up to 175 lbs
Heavyweight up to 200 lbs

No boxer above 200lbs is allowed to box!? lockdown is doing some weird things to people’s minds. So no Ali, no Frazier, no Tyson (both), no Lewis, no Foreman, no Larry Holmes etc this must be a troll post

I noticed that too. I assumed it was an error.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑27 May 2020, 14:11

snake33 wrote: ↑27 May 2020, 12:11 Rather than adding they should eliminate: Super, Interim, Regular, Aztec......etc.

Also eliminate the WBC, WBA, IBF, and WBO

Take the various titleholders, and other Top 10 contenders to fill out a bracket, Fight a Tournament to crown 1 True Champion, and there's your lineage.

computerrank wrote: ↑26 May 2020, 17:51

snake33 wrote: ↑26 May 2020, 14:27 No - without a doubt no.
Boxing will lose it's history and much of it's credibility if there is ever a super heavyweight division.
It would be the beginning of the end. If you want boxing to go away, that'd be the way to do it.
I think we are already seeing the top end of growth. Competitive heavyweights will always be
between 220 and 275. And between 5' 10" and 6' 10".
Our bone structure and gravity will stop unbelievable, grotesque giants from battling for titles
in rings where the ropes come up to their knees.

No, no Super Heavyweight. No hulks. No plat-footed overwhelming. Boxing is agility, speed and endurance.

Set an upper limit of 200 lbs for the Heavyweight. No boxer above should be egligable for boxing.
And have:
Flyweight up to 112 lbs
Bantamweight up top 118 lbs
Featherweight up to 126 lbs
Lightweight up to 135 lbs
Welterweight up to 147 lbs
Middleweight up to 160 lbs
Light Heavyweight up to 175 lbs
Heavyweight up to 200 lbs

I think I speak for everyone. Your humor is lost on all of us.

I'm beginning to smell obesity-worship.

Tony1244 wrote: ↑28 May 2020, 09:57

computerrank wrote: ↑26 May 2020, 17:51
No, no Super Heavyweight. No hulks. No plat-footed overwhelming. Boxing is agility, speed and endurance.

Set an upper limit of 200 lbs for the Heavyweight. No boxer above should be egligable for boxing.
And have:
Flyweight up to 112 lbs
Bantamweight up top 118 lbs
Featherweight up to 126 lbs
Lightweight up to 135 lbs
Welterweight up to 147 lbs
Middleweight up to 160 lbs
Light Heavyweight up to 175 lbs
Heavyweight up to 200 lbs

I think I speak for everyone. Your humor is lost on all of us.

I'm beginning to smell obesity-worship.

Say what? Obesity worship by having a 200 pound limit?

Would need some short fatties

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑28 May 2020, 12:03

Tony1244 wrote: ↑28 May 2020, 09:57

I think I speak for everyone. Your humor is lost on all of us.

I'm beginning to smell obesity-worship.

Say what? Obesity worship by having a 200 pound limit?

I think he was being sarcastic and saluting the Ruiz' and Valuevs' of the division.

Otherwise, I can't make head or tail out of: "Set an upper limit of 200 lbs for the Heavyweight. No boxer above should be egligable for boxing."

Obesity worship is the last thing that post suggests to me

Tony1244 wrote: ↑28 May 2020, 09:45

Shhhh wrote: ↑28 May 2020, 04:40
No boxer above 200lbs is allowed to box!? lockdown is doing some weird things to people’s minds. So no Ali, no Frazier, no Tyson (both), no Lewis, no Foreman, no Larry Holmes etc this must be a troll post

I noticed that too. I assumed it was an error.

Ali, Frazier, Holmes, and 25 of the top 30 all-time heavyweight greats made the 200 lbs and would have done longer.
And if you would set the upper limit to 220 lbs, you would have in all.
No need for Super Heavyweight.

Guys think those 8 original weights came down from Mt Sinai and are written in stone.

computerrank wrote: ↑28 May 2020, 12:59

Tony1244 wrote: ↑28 May 2020, 09:45

I noticed that too. I assumed it was an error.

Ali, Frazier, Holmes, and 25 of the top 30 all-time heavyweight greats made the 200 lbs and would have done longer.
And if you would set the upper limit to 220 lbs, you would have in all.
No need for Super Heavyweight.

I suggested a very gradual increase in the CW division. When I mean gradual, I mean gradual; keep the CW division @ 200 at least until 2030 and then look at it again.

Top HWs who can fight >240 is a very modern development. There have only been a handful so far. The Klits, LL, AJ, and Fury. That's it.

Now, if you set the CW limit at 220, you'd run the risk of having an excellent CW champion like Usyk, and a piece of crap who can't fight like Valuev or Ruiz as "heavyweight champion," and that would ruin boxing.

Bowe too

Shhhh wrote: ↑28 May 2020, 14:04

Tony1244 wrote: ↑28 May 2020, 13:42

I suggested a very gradual increase in the CW division. When I mean gradual, I mean gradual; keep the CW division @ 200 at least until 2030 and then look at it again.

Top HWs who can fight >240 is a very modern development. There have only been a handful so far. The Klits, LL, AJ, and Fury. That's it.

No, if you set the CW limit at 220, you'd run the risk of having an excellent CW champion like Usyk, and a piece of crap who can't fight like Valuev or Ruiz as "heavyweight champion," and that would ruin boxing.

Yeah I agree. They raised it to 200 quite recently. Used to be 190 or 195 depending on which organisation I think. Also if cruiser went as high as 220 that would mean the jump from light heavy to cruiser would be a massive 45 pounds and then another division in between would be needed. TBH they should get rid of the sub flyweight divs they are a joke and drop out a couple of others at the low end. I don’t even know anyone who weighs 112 pounds it’s a joke

Yup. There are so many cases of HW fights where the fighter weighing 205 or 215 beat guys weighing over 230, that it would take pages and pages to fill up.

To have a present day CW limit of 220 is patently moronic.

If anything the problem was and remains the setting of the cruiserweight limit - from memory at one time (IBF?) one org had it as 13st13 which was at least a better thought. For me they should have started at the 196 or 200 limit and it should have been moved up to 203 by now. Considering weigh in times, understanding of nutrition etc you're now unlikely to get genuine 182 pounders at cruiser and a lot of the genuine sub 217 fighters would be able to make it. The question then becomes can you get enough good boxers looking to fight at the weight to make it legit rather than the way it is usually seen.

Edit: also weight isn't really the issue once you're at that size, the height is what is making it change so much

Tony1244 wrote: ↑25 May 2020, 16:26

Heretic wrote: ↑25 May 2020, 05:21 We been over this here many times. But here it goes again.

Guys like Haye and Wilder actually belong in the cruiserweight division.

Haye spent most of hes career there anyways.

Wilder was at 212 for the first Fury bout. You can cut that much water to make it as cruiser in the weighting.

If guys like this cut the weight and fought in their natural weight limit there would not be too big weight differences in heavy.

Anyone fighting at 220 can cut down to cruiser. Anyone above is pretty big or fat dude in hes own right.

No need for more weight classes.

Sorry, misread your post, so I'll change it.

Why would a Holyfield or Wilder fight @ Cruiser, if they can KO HWs? They both obviously have.

Well the original point of the thread was that certain fighters have to fight with big weight disatvantage.

How about trying to pay some attention to what we are talking about in the first place

From a sporting perspective, it makes sense to introduce an additional weight class, because the jump in size from those competing at 200lbs in comparison to today’s 6’4” 245lb-ers is far too great.

And I’m sure a lot of people will cite the names of several modern-day small men that achieved great things against big heavyweights, such as Wilder, Holyfield, Toney, Jones Jr., Byrd & Haye, but they are definitely the exceptions that almost certainly fails to disprove the general rule, which is that size really does matter… and there’s a reason why weight classes exist!

That being said, the cruiserweight division was originally created in the late seventies, more than forty years ago, but you could argue that it took in the region of fifteen years for it to become established.

So it takes time for any new weight class to gain credibility. And in the meantime, most smaller fighters may prefer to compete in boxing’s heaviest division, because that’s where the bigger payday opportunities lie.

There are other things to consider…

If you plot the population of the United States on a bell curve, the average American male is slightly shorter than 5’ 10” and weighs close to 200lbs, because most non-athletes are fat (or at least carry excess weight).

A fighting weight for a 5’ 10” guy would normally be around 160lbs, which is a middleweight.

Much less of the population is over 220lbs in fighting shape.

So from a larger pool of potential fighters, you’d expect to find more good ones and from a smaller pool, fewer.

This is compounded when you consider the fact that other sports catering for larger athletes are more lucrative in the US than boxing (i.e. baseball, American football & basketball).

Therefore, there is also a legitimate argument that the introduction of a new weight class that addresses the size disparity between cruiserweights and heavyweight 245lb-ers, would be very weak because there wouldn’t be enough good athletes to compete in it, especially if better money can be earned in other weight divisions or competing in other professional sports.

However, the size difference between 200lb-ers competing at cruiserweight and world-rated heavyweights will continue to grow over time.

And I’m sure that within a decade or two, a typical heavyweight fighter will be more than 6’5” in height, weighing more than 260lbs.

In my mind, it seems inevitable for the current iteration of the heavyweight division to eventually be split into two, resulting in the creation of an additional weight class, mainly due to safety reasons and also to level the playing field.

Heretic wrote: ↑08 Jun 2020, 03:32

Tony1244 wrote: ↑25 May 2020, 16:26

Sorry, misread your post, so I'll change it.

Why would a Holyfield or Wilder fight @ Cruiser, if they can KO HWs? They both obviously have.

Well the original point of the thread was that certain fighters have to fight with big weight disatvantage.

How about trying to pay some attention to what we are talking about in the first place

Again: Why would a Holyfield or Wilder fight @ Cruiser, if they can KO HWs? If you can't answer the question, don't.

Don't bother, because the answer to everyone is Wilder and Holy should, or should have fought @ HW.