BoxRec

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑29 May 2020, 18:13

oogiebe wrote: ↑29 May 2020, 18:10
Yeah, but that didn't happen.

Duh, most of what we talk about never happened, just curious what he thinks of that scenario

Duh

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑29 May 2020, 18:07

brilo33 wrote: ↑29 May 2020, 18:03

,exactly ,even the fury wilder first fight when people say fury got an extra half second count he never , ,it means nothing there is also loads of fights when a reff has given a slow count to a boxer who doesnt want to get up either,

Now what if Dempsey went back to the corner straight away, but the ref just stood there, waiting 5 seconds to start counting, and then Tunney stumbles up at 9.5 and wins. Would that take away from the win at all do you think.

your right though it would, look a fury wilder 2 , i mean wilder complaing about his suite takes something away from that win , and i aint joking i do think him saying that does, because maybe he was right, i mean i lift weights ,i wouldnt fancy famers walk 45 pound suit

brilo33 wrote: ↑29 May 2020, 18:38

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑29 May 2020, 18:07

Now what if Dempsey went back to the corner straight away, but the ref just stood there, waiting 5 seconds to start counting, and then Tunney stumbles up at 9.5 and wins. Would that take away from the win at all do you think.

your right though it would, look a fury wilder 2 , i mean wilder complaing about his suite takes something away from that win , and i aint joking i do think him saying that does, because maybe he was right, i mean i lift weights ,i wouldnt fancy famers walk 45 pound suit

If only that cheater Fury hadn't forced him to wear it, I guess.

Is was a bit racist for Fury to do that

squiggy wrote: ↑29 May 2020, 18:54

brilo33 wrote: ↑29 May 2020, 18:38

your right though it would, look a fury wilder 2 , i mean wilder complaing about his suite takes something away from that win , and i aint joking i do think him saying that does, because maybe he was right, i mean i lift weights ,i wouldnt fancy famers walk 45 pound suit

If only that cheater Fury hadn't forced him to wear it, I guess.

iam not saying that at all. i am huge fury fan since he started, were saying losing boxer or a dodgy count can ruin great wins just by saying something which has no relevance at all , like haye and his sore toe or fighter comes out says i should of knocked s... out of him but busted my hand in the 1st

man wrote: ↑29 May 2020, 16:41 a sensationalised non-issue. jack
forgot the new rule, the ref did what
he was supposed to do and tunney
was clearly able to beat the count
with ease.

way more interesting yet way less
sensationalised or even talked about
is the fact that George Foreman did
beat the count against Ali at the end
of the round, yet was not allowed to
continue.

- Ali seldom if ever adhered to the neutral corner rule.

Worst example is the Liston rematch where Walcott had to rassle him to the corner only to have Ali sprint back to the prone Liston trying to kick his head in. Liston was never given a count, but the melee must've lasted near 30 sec, a clear cut DQ of Ali as he should've been given in subsequent fights like Bonavena until he learned to mind his manners.

There are thousands examples of boxing not enforcing rules in showcase fights, the major reason younger and even older fans have fled the sport.

I like how Douglas was given the same 14 second count as Dempsey, the fighter he modeled his style after.

The count is based on seconds. In Dempsey day the timekeeper wasn't trained to keep those seconds while the ref was engaged unable to render the immediate count. When Tunney KDed Dempsey, he didn't go to a neutral corner, but unlike the KOed Tunney, Jack up in a flash, so it was a nonissue.

man wrote: ↑29 May 2020, 16:41 a sensationalised non-issue. jack
forgot the new rule, the ref did what
he was supposed to do and tunney
was clearly able to beat the count
with ease.

way more interesting yet way less
sensationalised or even talked about
is the fact that George Foreman did
beat the count against Ali at the end
of the round, yet was not allowed to
continue.

George claims he was instructed to stay down and get up on the corners signal.
That turned out to be too late in the Ali fight and so he didn't do that again.

brilo33 wrote: ↑29 May 2020, 18:38

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑29 May 2020, 18:07

Now what if Dempsey went back to the corner straight away, but the ref just stood there, waiting 5 seconds to start counting, and then Tunney stumbles up at 9.5 and wins. Would that take away from the win at all do you think.

your right though it would, look a fury wilder 2 , i mean wilder complaing about his suite takes something away from that win , and i aint joking i do think him saying that does, because maybe he was right, i mean i lift weights ,i wouldnt fancy famers walk 45 pound suit

I think it is very unlikely that suit weighed anywhere near 45lbs. For a 45lb suit, take a look at what Schwarzenegger was wearing as Mr. Freeze in Batman and Robin.

I don't advise watching the actual film though.

Finkel wrote: ↑31 May 2020, 01:20

brilo33 wrote: ↑29 May 2020, 18:38

your right though it would, look a fury wilder 2 , i mean wilder complaing about his suite takes something away from that win , and i aint joking i do think him saying that does, because maybe he was right, i mean i lift weights ,i wouldnt fancy famers walk 45 pound suit

I think it is very unlikely that suit weighed anywhere near 45lbs. For a 45lb suit, take a look at what Schwarzenegger was wearing as Mr. Freeze in Batman and Robin.

I don't advise watching the actual film though.

Feels like one of those by the time they fight again it will have been a 250lb suit and it wore Wilder to the ring.

Foreman was done, and the fight wisely stopped. Not even George thought he could have won. In fact it was to Ali's credit he didn't clobber big George one more time as he toppled over.

The Dempsey count will forever remain controversial, but here again Jack never complained afterwards. Gene Tunney is almost the forgotten man of heavyweight boxing despite being a first class student of the sport. He had studied Dempsey long and hard for years before their encounter. By the time of their fights Dempsey was struggling for answers.

Similar thing happened with the Mike Tyson / Buster Douglas knock-down. The count was long, but Tyson, like Dempsey, didn't help his own cause. Douglas was able to survive to the bell.

If he had, and Tyson had taken the warning, boxing history might have changed. He didn't, and no protestations by Don King could change the result.

There's also knock-downs and knock-downs. Like with everything else timing is crucial. If you're going to go down, better early in the fight, and better near the end of the round.

Then there's the fact that some fighters often seem to be only waking up after being knocked down, and immediately start to fight better with the adrenaline rush.

Rocky Marciano, Muhammad Ali, Joe Calzaghe and more recently Andy Ruiz spring to mind.

oogiebe wrote: ↑29 May 2020, 17:56

brilo33 wrote: ↑29 May 2020, 17:44

no i dont think it needs to be, i was just saying fights like tunney might of had a slighty longer count , i dont think it should be taken away from the win,

I don't think it takes away from Tunney's win. Didn't he drop Dempsey the next round?

He drop him the next round. The referee did not make Tunney go to a neutral corner.

The big question is not whether or not Tunney would have beaten the count. He probably would have anyway. However, would have been in condition to survive without those extra 5 seconds or so?