BoxRec

Rewatched the Jones Jr Calzaghe fight only the other day and forget what a good entertaining fight it was .
Maybe JJ on the slide a bit but still a great effort from Calzaghe , JJ really tested his chin at points and his work rate was as always superb .

Onamastus wrote: ↑03 Jul 2020, 15:32

Noxy wrote: ↑27 Jun 2020, 07:30

I don’t think he was, at least not at that stage of Joe‘s career. Collins brought more intensity than Chris and Calzaghe found the 12 rounds hard going, although he did win comfortably enough. I think Calzaghe would have found the 12 rounds harder with Collins.

The thing is, that aside, Collins would have had no issues with facing Joe if it had been worth his while. In this sort of debate you can always say - you ducked Calzaghe. It’s like saying Calzaghe ducked Froch, instead of saying that he just wasn’t interested in the fight.

Calzaghe and Froch were never signed to fight. Collins pulled out 10 days before the Calzaghe fight! He priced himself out of a Jones fight with his wacky demand for 20m (Tyson/Holyfield level money). He could find the motivation to fight Cornelius Carr & co but not Joe Calzaghe? Please. He would have been stretched like he was in sparring versus Howard Eastman.

No, he wouldn’t have been. I’ve already said that on this thread. Collins was serious quality - fact - Why? Because he proved it in the ring repeatedly. The anti-Collins bias on this thread needs balancing and if it’s up to me to do that, that’s ok with me.

Noxy wrote: ↑03 Jul 2020, 15:59

Onamastus wrote: ↑03 Jul 2020, 15:32

Calzaghe and Froch were never signed to fight. Collins pulled out 10 days before the Calzaghe fight! He priced himself out of a Jones fight with his wacky demand for 20m (Tyson/Holyfield level money). He could find the motivation to fight Cornelius Carr & co but not Joe Calzaghe? Please. He would have been stretched like he was in sparring versus Howard Eastman.

No, he wouldn’t have been. I’ve already said that on this thread. Collins was serious quality - fact - Why? Because he proved it in the ring repeatedly. The anti-Collins bias on this thread needs balancing and if it’s up to me to do that, that’s ok with me.

I think you are overrating him, world class yes but more like WBO world class, he was never good enough to win more prestigious belts.

Ok, I can take that. World class but fell short against some top guys.

Noxy wrote: ↑03 Jul 2020, 16:25 Ok, I can take that. World class but fell short against some top guys.

Beating Watts, Thornton, Pyatt and Eubank makes him world class.

He also put up decent showings against McCallum, Kalumby and Reggie Johnson but he didn't threaten to beat them.

Benn was well gone and the rest were very much WBO voluntary defences

rd350lc wrote: ↑03 Jul 2020, 15:48 Rewatched the Jones Jr Calzaghe fight only the other day and forget what a good entertaining fight it was .
Maybe JJ on the slide a bit but still a great effort from Calzaghe , JJ really tested his chin at points and his work rate was as always superb .

RJJ wasn’t on the slide.. he had already hit bottom.

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑03 Jul 2020, 16:44

rd350lc wrote: ↑03 Jul 2020, 15:48 Rewatched the Jones Jr Calzaghe fight only the other day and forget what a good entertaining fight it was .
Maybe JJ on the slide a bit but still a great effort from Calzaghe , JJ really tested his chin at points and his work rate was as always superb .

RJJ wasn’t on the slide.. he had already hit bottom.

He completely obliterated his legacy by getting himself starched repeatedly. Danny fking Green KO'd him of all people. Enzo even did it.

Coco wrote: ↑03 Jul 2020, 16:33

Noxy wrote: ↑03 Jul 2020, 16:25 Ok, I can take that. World class but fell short against some top guys.

Beating Watts, Thornton, Pyatt and Eubank makes him world class.

He also put up decent showings against McCallum, Kalumby and Reggie Johnson but he didn't threaten to beat them.

Benn was well gone and the rest were very much WBO voluntary defences

Eubank was on the slide by the time he fought Collins (44th fight), and Ben was shot away.

The versions of Eubank and Benn in their own first fight would have dealt with Collins.

Loftgroov wrote: ↑04 Jul 2020, 14:26

Coco wrote: ↑03 Jul 2020, 16:33

Beating Watts, Thornton, Pyatt and Eubank makes him world class.

He also put up decent showings against McCallum, Kalumby and Reggie Johnson but he didn't threaten to beat them.

Benn was well gone and the rest were very much WBO voluntary defences

Eubank was on the slide by the time he fought Collins (44th fight), and Ben was shot away.

The versions of Eubank and Benn in their own first fight would have dealt with Collins.

100% but beating that version of Eubank was still a good scalp as it was for JC

Collins knew what he had coming against Calzaghe and bottled it. Plain and simple.

Joe's style, speed, energy and hunger were all wrong for Collins.

Who can forget Eubank being filmed walking back to his dressing room saying "now we know why Steve didn't want to fight him".

Loftgroov wrote: ↑04 Jul 2020, 14:26

Coco wrote: ↑03 Jul 2020, 16:33

Beating Watts, Thornton, Pyatt and Eubank makes him world class.

He also put up decent showings against McCallum, Kalumby and Reggie Johnson but he didn't threaten to beat them.

Benn was well gone and the rest were very much WBO voluntary defences

Eubank was on the slide by the time he fought Collins (44th fight), and Ben was shot away.

The versions of Eubank and Benn in their own first fight would have dealt with Collins.

Yes, they might have beaten him. On the other hand, maybe Collins would have beaten them. In any case, Collins was on their level. The three of them were elite guys among other elite guys at middle/super middle.

THEBUTCH wrote: ↑04 Jul 2020, 19:42 Collins knew what he had coming against Calzaghe and bottled it. Plain and simple.

Joe's style, speed, energy and hunger were all wrong for Collins.

Who can forget Eubank being filmed walking back to his dressing room saying "now we know why Steve didn't want to fight him".

At the time Calzaghe was an up and comer. He wasn't someone to be feared by Collins when you take into account that Collins was in the ring with the likes of Mike McCallum. Calzaghe was a fight he probably saw as a tough fight and he just wanted to cash out with a decent payday and didn't want to risk it. Collins has the kind of style where he does nothing exceptionally well but does everything decently. Calzaghe just didn't have the name value or bring enough money to the table. You are talking about Calzaghe as if he was walking around with the reputation of Gerald McClellan or Julian Jackson, guys who Collins may well have run a mile from. He wasn't exactly a fearsome guy at the time, he was pretty unproven.

But as Onamastus reminds us all Collins did sign to defend against Calzaghe and pulled out at short notice with some spurious excuse, with Eubank stepping in at short notice and having to cut weight.

Joe wasn't an unknown and came with a reputation of the next big thing, unlike Cornelius Carr, Neville Brown and the lamentable Craig Cummings where Collins would have known he was going to have everything his own way.

Collins wanted to be able to bully lesser opposition but that was never going to work against Calazghe who was chomping at the bit for a world title fight.

Collins knew he was slowing down and had been unimpressive in preparation for Calzaghe. I'd think Collins would have been stopped in the mid-rounds, and probably Collins knew the same thing.

Collins blatantly never fancied the Calzaghe fight, it was the least surprising pullout in the world.

Indeed, Steven said as much himself. He never wanted the fight. That’s not the same as bottling it though. You don’t have a career like Steve if your bottle isn’t all that, or chase a fight with the likes of Jones.

I reckon Steve started watching tapes of Calzaghe a few weeks before the fight, and shit himself! That's the crack!

Joe was looking breathtakingly good coming through but didn't have much coverage. His power was immense, frightening.

I also believe Chris accepted the fight without having seen Calzaghe fight, then viewed tapes and thought 'fornicate'. But Chris was so desperate for respect he went through with it, hence him looking 'pensive' when waiting in ring for Calzaghe to come out -

Richard Branson was sitting with Chris for an hour afterwards on the changing room floor, as Eubank repeatedly said 'I can't do this anymore.' He took the beating Collins dodged and had 'inspired a nation' as Branson told him.

It's a big asterisk against Steve.

Old man version of Eubank was only 31 there, always thought he'd been older

That was very old in boxing terms back then, when the standard bearers were Benitez and Tyson peaking at 18 and 21.

Eubank was an old 31 anyway after the wars with Benn and Watson, 20 world title fights in under 5yrs and losing 20lb for each fight.

He needed cortisol injections in both knees before going out against Joe - the next day he couldn't stand, let alone walk. That's slow-pace long-distance roadwork for half his life.

margaret thatcher wrote: ↑05 Jul 2020, 22:19 Old man version of Eubank was only 31 there, always thought he'd been older

He clearly wasn't prime goes to show you. Prime isn't about age in boxing.

Let's also not forget Eubank retired for a year of course. Never really got that sharpness back. Looked like a slow motion version in Dubai when he tried his hand at promoting.

Sockpuppet in the house.

orbtastic wrote: ↑06 Jul 2020, 02:19 Sockpuppet in the house.

Haha.