BoxRec

Carlos Ortiz was fantastic in re-matches.

chrisjs1985 wrote: ↑03 Aug 2020, 11:56 Carlos Ortiz was fantastic in re-matches.

Yeah he was!!

How can we forget the great Ezzard Charles?
Many fighters he beat in the rematches. Sometimes more than once!
Archie Moore
Charley Burley
Lloyd Marshall
Jersey Joe Walcott
Joey Maxim
Jimmy Bivins

Any other opponent that Charles beat in the rematch?

This is a good one. Early in his career, I think Charles fared better in rematches with Elmer Ray, Oakland Billy Smith and Charley Banks. Later on, he did better in his second fights with John Holman and Toxie Hall. He also beat Rex Layne in the first and third fights of their series.

Unfortunately, that later part of his career also included him going 0-2 against both Rocky Marciano and Hurricane Jackson.

The reference to Jersey Joe Walcott is a mixed bag. You're right, he won the immediate rematch. However, he did lose their last two fights. I understand that the fourth fight is controversial, but officially it's a loss.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑03 Aug 2020, 15:32 How can we forget the great Ezzard Charles?
Many fighters he beat in the rematches. Sometimes more than once!
Archie Moore
Charley Burley
Lloyd Marshall
Jersey Joe Walcott
Joey Maxim
Jimmy Bivins

Any other opponent that Charles beat in the rematch?

Not Rocky Marciano

AntonioMartin wrote: ↑04 Aug 2020, 00:46

elmersalsa wrote: ↑03 Aug 2020, 15:32 How can we forget the great Ezzard Charles?
Many fighters he beat in the rematches. Sometimes more than once!
Archie Moore
Charley Burley
Lloyd Marshall
Jersey Joe Walcott
Joey Maxim
Jimmy Bivins

Any other opponent that Charles beat in the rematch?

Not Rocky Marciano

Nor Joe Louis.

oogiebe wrote: ↑04 Aug 2020, 01:22

AntonioMartin wrote: ↑04 Aug 2020, 00:46

elmersalsa wrote: ↑03 Aug 2020, 15:32 How can we forget the great Ezzard Charles?
Many fighters he beat in the rematches. Sometimes more than once!
Archie Moore
Charley Burley
Lloyd Marshall
Jersey Joe Walcott
Joey Maxim
Jimmy Bivins

Any other opponent that Charles beat in the rematch?

Not Rocky Marciano

Nor Joe Louis.

Nope he beat Louis the only time they fought...

Ali 8-0 in rematches. That says a lot v impressive.

AntonioMartin wrote: ↑03 Aug 2020, 08:44 Sugar Ray Robinson
Carlos Monzon

Not in their league obviously but Wilfredo Gomez 2-0 in rematches..

And thought he "lost" to Michael Spinks, Larry Holmes was good in rematches too.

Muhammad Ali was something like 8-0
in rematches.
To me, Joe Louis takes the title though...

AntonioMartin wrote: ↑04 Aug 2020, 06:44

oogiebe wrote: ↑04 Aug 2020, 01:22

AntonioMartin wrote: ↑04 Aug 2020, 00:46

Not Rocky Marciano

Nor Joe Louis.

Nope he beat Louis the only time they fought...

Geez...I had walcott on my mind.

elmersalsa wrote: ↑15 Jul 2020, 22:09 The great Azumah Nelson proved that he was a bad mutha when it came to rematches. Who was the best fighter, or name fighters that were the best the second time around?

Tyson Fury. Always delivers, but seems much better the second time (After his fake ban)

oogiebe wrote: ↑04 Aug 2020, 12:26

AntonioMartin wrote: ↑04 Aug 2020, 06:44

oogiebe wrote: ↑04 Aug 2020, 01:22
Nor Joe Louis.

Nope he beat Louis the only time they fought...

Geez...I had walcott on my mind.

LOL I figured that..its ok it happens..

So far, I think the great Muhammad Ali got the record of the most wins the second time around. The guys that he beat in rematches:
Henry Cooper
Sonny Liston
Floyd Patterson
George Chuvalo
Jerry Quarry
Joe Frazier
Ken Norton
Joe Bugner
Leon Spinks

That is 9-0 in rematches.

And the new record holder in rematches is:

The great Sugar Ray Robinson. He did it 14 times!

The great Willie Pep is the new king. He had 19 wins in rematches.

How about a run down of the 19?

This is BEST fighter in rematches which doesn't necessarily have to do with record. So I stay with my pick from early on. SRR.

I'm not sure everyone is thinking the same thing when they see the word rematch. Are we talking just the 2nd fight? What if a guy fights someone three times or more, does the 3rd, 4th fight etc. count?

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑11 Aug 2020, 08:46 I'm not sure everyone is thinking the same thing when they see the word rematch. Are we talking just the 2nd fight? What if a guy fights someone three times or more, does the 3rd, 4th fight etc. count?

The second fight that counts. For example, Willie Pep lost to Sandy Saddler 3 out of 4 fights. But, he did win the rematch (second fight). That's what we are talking about.

But, if there's a fighter that won more rematches with the greatest quality of opposition available, then it gotta be the great Muhammad Ali. He beat guys that were either world champions or top 10 contenders.

oogiebe wrote: ↑11 Aug 2020, 00:30 This is BEST fighter in rematches which doesn't necessarily have to do with record. So I stay with my pick from early on. SRR.

And I believe that you got that right!

By looking at Sugar Ray Robinson's record again, I see that he became victorious in 20 rematches (second time around):
Gene Fullmer
Carmen Basilio
Randy Turpin
Bobo Olson
Kid Gavilan
Jose Basora
George Costner
Tommy Bell
Jimmy Tygh
Fritzie Zivic
Sammy Angott
Marty Servo
Izzy Janazzo
California Jackie Wilson
Ossie Harris
Bobby Lee
Jean Walzack
Robert Villemain
Wilf Greaves
Joe Rindone

So, Sugar Ray Robinson beats Muhammad Ali by 5 opponents in the second time around of guys that were world champions or top ten contenders at one time. He beat 14 of them. Ali beat 9.
The 14 beaten by Robinson in rematches:
Gene Fullmer
Carmen Basilio
Randy Turpin
Bobo Olson
Kid Gavilan
Jose Basora
George Costner
Tommy Bell
Fritzie Zivic
Sammy Angott
Marty Servo
Izzy Janazzo
Robert Villemain
Wilf Greaves

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑10 Aug 2020, 22:56 How about a run down of the 19?

Willie Pep beat in rematches these guys. Sometimes 3 or 4 times:
Joey Archibald
Joey Silva
Bobby McIntyre
Sal Bartolo
Chalky Wright
Charley Lewis
Jimmy McAllister
Jackie Wilson
Jimmy Joyce
Lefty La Chance
Joey Angelo
Humberto Sierra
Teddy "Red Top" Davis
Sandy Saddler
Billy Lima
Gil Cadilli
Pappy Gault
Manny Castro
Johnny Gilmore
Joey Marcus
Ruby Garcia

Of the 19, 9 of them were world champions or top ten contenders:
Joey Archibald
Bobby McIntyre
Sal Bartolo
Chalky Wright
Jimmy McAllister
Jackie Wilson
Humberto Sierra
Teddy "Red Top" Davis
Sandy Saddler

King Carlos Monzon was also very good at rematches. He won 17 of them.

You have to wonder about the ability of some of these opponents that Pep and Monzon beat in rematches. It looks like sometimes they just needed a live body to beat.

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑12 Aug 2020, 08:35 You have to wonder about the ability of some of these opponents that Pep and Monzon beat in rematches. It looks like sometimes they just needed a live body to beat.

They could only fight what was in front of them, Alp. Not all of them were thrash. Some of those opponents were very good. Like I have said in Pep's example. He beat 9 in rematches against opponents that were champions or top 10 contenders. He probably beat more top ten contenders than that. What your Ring Record Book says? That is a good reference!

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑12 Aug 2020, 08:35 You have to wonder about the ability of some of these opponents that Pep and Monzon beat in rematches. It looks like sometimes they just needed a live body to beat.

They had the ability to beat Pep and Monzon on their first fights!