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Re: Heavyweights: The ALMOST world champions
Posted: 29 Jul 2020, 11:27
by Ambling Alp II
punchoutsb wrote: ↑29 Jul 2020, 10:32
A little more recently, Golota should have won the IBF ad WBA titles in back to back fights...which would have also led to Lamon Brewster holding the majority of the HW belts in 2005 before dropping them to Lyakhovich the following year.
Agree about Golota. Yet another break that Ruiz got. Golota would be remembered better today had he won. Of course it was just a WBS title, but some people like those.
Re: Heavyweights: The ALMOST world champions
Posted: 29 Jul 2020, 12:06
by Tony1244
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑29 Jul 2020, 11:26
cfang wrote: ↑29 Jul 2020, 10:18
Surely norton was robbed against ali?
No. That is a myth. Norton was a champion anyway so it doesn't fit the guidelines for this thread.
Norton was never universally recognized. He was awarded the title because Ali fought Spinks again.
Re: Heavyweights: The ALMOST world champions
Posted: 29 Jul 2020, 12:13
by margaret thatcher
the multi title era has been around for decades, omg Kenny had just another abc title, won outside the ring
Re: Heavyweights: The ALMOST world champions
Posted: 29 Jul 2020, 12:14
by hhaehre
Tony1244 wrote: ↑29 Jul 2020, 12:06
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑29 Jul 2020, 11:26
cfang wrote: ↑29 Jul 2020, 10:18
Surely norton was robbed against ali?
No. That is a myth. Norton was a champion anyway so it doesn't fit the guidelines for this thread.
Norton was never universally recognized. He was awarded the title because Ali fought Spinks again.
And of course he was robbed against Ali.
Re: Heavyweights: The ALMOST world champions
Posted: 29 Jul 2020, 12:15
by Tony1244
hhaehre wrote: ↑29 Jul 2020, 12:14
Tony1244 wrote: ↑29 Jul 2020, 12:06
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑29 Jul 2020, 11:26
No. That is a myth. Norton was a champion anyway so it doesn't fit the guidelines for this thread.
Norton was never universally recognized. He was awarded the title because Ali fought Spinks again.
And of course he was robbed against Ali.
What about Jimmy Young being robbed?
Re: Heavyweights: The ALMOST world champions
Posted: 29 Jul 2020, 12:22
by DrDuke
Young-Ali fight was really close. In addition to that it can be scored differently depending on how you look at Young's "escaping" tactics.
While Norton-Ali was a clear robbery, which is seen as fair decision majorly by stupid Ali fanatics.
Re: Heavyweights: The ALMOST world champions
Posted: 29 Jul 2020, 13:17
by hhaehre
Tony1244 wrote: ↑29 Jul 2020, 12:15
hhaehre wrote: ↑29 Jul 2020, 12:14
Tony1244 wrote: ↑29 Jul 2020, 12:06
Norton was never universally recognized. He was awarded the title because Ali fought Spinks again.
And of course he was robbed against Ali.
What about Jimmy Young being robbed?
Clear win for Young imo. Funny how the Ali fanboys cry and moan about Young sticking his head out through the ropes a few times, but Ali's blatant and constant holding in the second Frazier fight is just smart tactics.
Re: Heavyweights: The ALMOST world champions
Posted: 29 Jul 2020, 13:27
by Tony1244
hhaehre wrote: ↑29 Jul 2020, 13:17
Tony1244 wrote: ↑29 Jul 2020, 12:15
hhaehre wrote: ↑29 Jul 2020, 12:14
And of course he was robbed against Ali.
What about Jimmy Young being robbed?
Clear win for Young imo. Funny how the Ali fanboys cry and moan about Young sticking his head out through the ropes a few times, but Ali's blatant and constant holding in the second Frazier fight is just smart tactics.
The holding allowed in the 1970s was off the charts. Ali in Frazier 2 & 3. Foreman was penalized for "rough tactics" against Young, but Jimmy was allowed to grab Foreman's legs!
Re: Heavyweights: The ALMOST world champions
Posted: 29 Jul 2020, 13:30
by margaret thatcher
Holding is basically a semi foul at best, a lot of fights guys can do it endlessly without being penalized. From Jack Johnson to Wlad Klitschko, been that way for century. The first criteria as to how much holding you can tolerate is how much you like the holder. You like them and it's just ring iq and craftiness, you dislike them and theyre a dirty cheat.
Most cases when there actually is a deduction, it comes late in the fight after the guy's been holding tons for rounds and rounds
Re: Heavyweights: The ALMOST world champions
Posted: 29 Jul 2020, 18:02
by Cojimar 1946
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑29 Jul 2020, 11:27
punchoutsb wrote: ↑29 Jul 2020, 10:32
A little more recently, Golota should have won the IBF ad WBA titles in back to back fights...which would have also led to Lamon Brewster holding the majority of the HW belts in 2005 before dropping them to Lyakhovich the following year.
Agree about Golota. Yet another break that Ruiz got. Golota would be remembered better today had he won. Of course it was just a WBS title, but some people like those.
It would also help Bowe's reputation a bit if Golota's claim to fame didn't rely so heavily on beating Bowe up twice.
Re: Heavyweights: The ALMOST world champions
Posted: 29 Jul 2020, 18:58
by elmersalsa
hhaehre post_id :TU: =5402345 wrote:29 Jul 2020, 13:17
Tony1244 wrote: ↑29 Jul 2020, 12:15
hhaehre wrote: ↑29 Jul 2020, 12:14
And of course he was robbed against Ali.
What about Jimmy Young being robbed?
Clear win for Young imo. Funny how the Ali fanboys cry and moan about Young sticking his head out through the ropes a few times, but Ali's blatant and constant holding in the second Frazier fight is just smart tactics.
Re: Heavyweights: The ALMOST world champions
Posted: 30 Jul 2020, 09:54
by margaret thatcher
hhaehre wrote: ↑29 Jul 2020, 13:17
Tony1244 wrote: ↑29 Jul 2020, 12:15
hhaehre wrote: ↑29 Jul 2020, 12:14
And of course he was robbed against Ali.
What about Jimmy Young being robbed?
Clear win for Young imo. Funny how the Ali fanboys cry and moan about Young sticking his head out through the ropes a few times, but Ali's blatant and constant holding in the second Frazier fight is just smart tactics.
This is a very common thing. Dudes like a fighter, and their hugging and fouling is smart boxing and ring cleverness, they don't like him and he's just a dirty clincher, etc.
Re: Heavyweights: The ALMOST world champions
Posted: 30 Jul 2020, 11:12
by Ambling Alp II
Tony1244 wrote: ↑29 Jul 2020, 12:15
hhaehre wrote: ↑29 Jul 2020, 12:14
Tony1244 wrote: ↑29 Jul 2020, 12:06
Norton was never universally recognized. He was awarded the title because Ali fought Spinks again.
And of course he was robbed against Ali.
What about Jimmy Young being robbed?
Hard to say a guy was robbed when he barely throws anything meaningful for 15 rounds. If this was not Ali nobody would say this was a robbery.
Re: Heavyweights: The ALMOST world champions
Posted: 30 Jul 2020, 11:25
by hhaehre
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑30 Jul 2020, 11:12
Tony1244 wrote: ↑29 Jul 2020, 12:15
hhaehre wrote: ↑29 Jul 2020, 12:14
And of course he was robbed against Ali.
What about Jimmy Young being robbed?
Hard to say a guy was robbed when he barely throws anything meaningful for 15 rounds. If this was not Ali nobody would say this was a robbery.
Well, he outpunched and outlanded Ali, but I guess that's not enough?
Re: Heavyweights: The ALMOST world champions
Posted: 30 Jul 2020, 11:43
by DrDuke
hhaehre wrote: ↑30 Jul 2020, 11:25
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑30 Jul 2020, 11:12
Tony1244 wrote: ↑29 Jul 2020, 12:15
What about Jimmy Young being robbed?
Hard to say a guy was robbed when he barely throws anything meaningful for 15 rounds. If this was not Ali nobody would say this was a robbery.
Well, he outpunched and outlanded Ali, but I guess that's not enough?
That's Alp. He's in his own universe, with his own measurements.
Re: Heavyweights: The ALMOST world champions
Posted: 30 Jul 2020, 11:48
by hhaehre
DrDuke wrote: ↑30 Jul 2020, 11:43
hhaehre wrote: ↑30 Jul 2020, 11:25
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑30 Jul 2020, 11:12
Hard to say a guy was robbed when he barely throws anything meaningful for 15 rounds. If this was not Ali nobody would say this was a robbery.
Well, he outpunched and outlanded Ali, but I guess that's not enough?
That's Alp. He's in his own universe, with his own measurements.
To be fair, it's only when it comes to Ali and Leonard.
Re: Heavyweights: The ALMOST world champions
Posted: 30 Jul 2020, 11:50
by DrDuke
hhaehre wrote: ↑30 Jul 2020, 11:48
DrDuke wrote: ↑30 Jul 2020, 11:43
hhaehre wrote: ↑30 Jul 2020, 11:25
Well, he outpunched and outlanded Ali, but I guess that's not enough?
That's Alp. He's in his own universe, with his own measurements.
To be fair, it's only when it comes to Ali and Leonard.
Well, not quite.
Re: Heavyweights: The ALMOST world champions
Posted: 30 Jul 2020, 12:08
by Onamastus
Young landed 50% of his power punches? What does a Jimmy Young power punch look like? I know that Ali's power punches were impactful enough to make Young escape through the ropes.
I get the controversy but a lot of what Young throws doesn't register, with opponents or judges. Added to his obnoxious style I can see why they scored against him. Imagine being crowned heavyweight champion on that performance. Would Sports Illustrated use a picture of him sticking his head through the ropes to convey his mastery of Ali?
Re: Heavyweights: The ALMOST world champions
Posted: 30 Jul 2020, 15:51
by cfang
I saw the ali norton 3 fight recently and harry carpenter commentating said he thought ken was robbed. I scored it for norton. Ali had dropped a level from the first two fights.
Re: Heavyweights: The ALMOST world champions
Posted: 30 Jul 2020, 16:18
by Ambling Alp II
Onamastus wrote: ↑30 Jul 2020, 12:08
Young landed 50% of his power punches? What does a Jimmy Young power punch look like? I know that Ali's power punches were impactful enough to make Young escape through the ropes.
I get the controversy but a lot of what Young throws doesn't register, with opponents or judges. Added to his obnoxious style I can see why they scored against him. Imagine being crowned heavyweight champion on that performance. Would Sports Illustrated use a picture of him sticking his head through the ropes to convey his mastery of Ali?
Amen.
Some people know enough about boxing to know that you can't rely on Compubox.
Why have judges?
Just look at the numbers, pretend that they are 100% accurate.
Pretend that glancing blows mean the same as punches that land solidly.
Pretend that a hard punch counts as much as a weak punch.
Pretend that a fight is scored as a composite of all the rounds and not by each round individually.
Of course only Compubox it when it favors your guy.
Re: Heavyweights: The ALMOST world champions
Posted: 30 Jul 2020, 16:21
by margaret thatcher
Lol didn't you bring up Compubox to defend your argument about Bryd being ahead of Vit
I guess case in point about selectivity
Re: Heavyweights: The ALMOST world champions
Posted: 30 Jul 2020, 16:47
by Ambling Alp II
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑30 Jul 2020, 16:21
Lol didn't you bring up Compubox to defend your argument about Bryd being ahead of Vit
I guess case in point about selectivity
There have been multiple discussions about that "fight" over the years, I don't remember exactly what I said each , but I am pretty sure I didn't quote exact Compubox numbers. I thought it was a terrible fight and that neither landed much. It was a close fight as well. Didn't think Klitschko should have been way up.
Re: Heavyweights: The ALMOST world champions
Posted: 30 Jul 2020, 16:48
by margaret thatcher
Lol you brought up CompuBox for your argument bruh, selective just like the rest of us, no biggie
Re: Heavyweights: The ALMOST world champions
Posted: 31 Jul 2020, 08:25
by Ambling Alp II
margaret thatcher wrote: ↑30 Jul 2020, 16:48
Lol you brought up CompuBox for your argument bruh, selective just like the rest of us, no biggie
Whatever.
Re: Heavyweights: The ALMOST world champions
Posted: 31 Jul 2020, 11:53
by Onetimeonly
hhaehre wrote: ↑30 Jul 2020, 11:48
DrDuke wrote: ↑30 Jul 2020, 11:43
hhaehre wrote: ↑30 Jul 2020, 11:25
Well, he outpunched and outlanded Ali, but I guess that's not enough?
That's Alp. He's in his own universe, with his own measurements.
To be fair, it's only when it comes to Ali and Leonard.
Yup, he's very objective past those two.