Should Povetkin beat Whyte

[gilgamesh]

It'd be a solid win, and might up his resume ever so slightly, and get him one more title shot.

As of now I'd figure Povetkin is probably like the 6th best guy or so since Lewis' retirement. Something like that. I don't think beating Whyte moves him up any.

Tyson Fury is already ahead of Vitali to me, and if he beats Wilder again, and Joshua he's ahead of Wlad too.

Tyson Fury beat Wlad. How could he not be ahead of Wlad ?
I know you'll say it was late in his career but what if Wlad fought Fury right after Sanders or around that time.
It would have gone about the same or worse.

Vs Fury, Wlad was past it.
VS Sanders, he was 'before' it.

No. He was prime for Sanders. He hadn't made the style adjustment yet that would later prove to be very efficient for him during his long reign as Champion, but he was prime and generally far more aggressive going into the Sanders fight. The Sanders defeat followed by the Brewster defeat forced him to change his style to the significantly more boring "Clinchko" style we came to be familiar with.

Depending on who he's fighting, I think he would've been better served to resort to his old style, but he seldom ever brought it back after that Brewster loss.

[gilgamesh]

If Fury beats wilder again and Joshua Id consider him top since lewis.

I

If he's able to handle Joshua in the same one sided fashion he did Wilder in the rematch that would be a huge statement definitely.

Personally I'd like to see him notch at least a few more wins over Top Contenders to put him over Wlad, but yeah you'd have a strong, strong case for him over Wlad if he dominates Joshua as he did Wilder in the 2nd bout.

It'll be interesting to see if he stops Wilder again in a 3rd bout too. I don't see why he'd make any style adjustment from the 2nd bout as well as that worked.

[snake33]

It'd be a solid win, and might up his resume ever so slightly, and get him one more title shot.

As of now I'd figure Povetkin is probably like the 6th best guy or so since Lewis' retirement. Something like that. I don't think beating Whyte moves him up any.

Tyson Fury is already ahead of Vitali to me, and if he beats Wilder again, and Joshua he's ahead of Wlad too.

Tyson Fury beat Wlad. How could he not be ahead of Wlad ?
I know you'll say it was late in his career but what if Wlad fought Fury right after Sanders or around that time.
It would have gone about the same or worse.

Vs Fury, Wlad was past it.
VS Sanders, he was 'before' it.

You're cherry picking. Fury is above Wlad. And Vitali was too slow. He's above both of 'em.
However, Lewis is way above anything we have now. Who beat Vitali, BTW. People keep pretending that didn't happen.

[oogiebe]

Tyson Fury beat Wlad. How could he not be ahead of Wlad ?
I know you'll say it was late in his career but what if Wlad fought Fury right after Sanders or around that time.
It would have gone about the same or worse.

Vs Fury, Wlad was past it.
VS Sanders, he was 'before' it.

You're cherry picking. Fury is above Wlad. And Vitali was too slow. He's above both of 'em.
However, Lewis is way above anything we have now. Who beat Vitali, BTW. People keep pretending that didn't happen.

Yeah, I'm cherry picking the two fights you referenced.

[oogiebe]

Tyson Fury beat Wlad. How could he not be ahead of Wlad ?
I know you'll say it was late in his career but what if Wlad fought Fury right after Sanders or around that time.
It would have gone about the same or worse.

Vs Fury, Wlad was past it.
VS Sanders, he was 'before' it.

No. He was prime for Sanders. He hadn't made the style adjustment yet that would later prove to be very efficient for him during his long reign as Champion, but he was prime and generally far more aggressive going into the Sanders fight. The Sanders defeat followed by the Brewster defeat forced him to change his style to the significantly more boring "Clinchko" style we came to be familiar with.

Depending on who he's fighting, I think he would've been better served to resort to his old style, but he seldom ever brought it back after that Brewster loss.

The style adjustment led to his prime.

[Jeff_lacy_ko]

Physically wlad was in his prime against sanders and until about pianeta. There was a decline starting with povetkin

His style wasnt perfected until he fought that byrd rematch. Brewster stopped him, williamson and peter dropped him and he never seemed confident in the new style until around Byrd 2

[gilgamesh]

Vs Fury, Wlad was past it.
VS Sanders, he was 'before' it.

No. He was prime for Sanders. He hadn't made the style adjustment yet that would later prove to be very efficient for him during his long reign as Champion, but he was prime and generally far more aggressive going into the Sanders fight. The Sanders defeat followed by the Brewster defeat forced him to change his style to the significantly more boring "Clinchko" style we came to be familiar with.

Depending on who he's fighting, I think he would've been better served to resort to his old style, but he seldom ever brought it back after that Brewster loss.

The style adjustment led to his prime.

He won his title off of Chris Byrd.

He had already beaten Chris Byrd quite convincingly 7 years earlier, using his prior style.

[gilgamesh]

Physically wlad was in his prime against sanders and until about pianeta. There was a decline starting with povetkin

His style wasnt perfected until he fought that byrd rematch. Brewster stopped him, williamson and peter dropped him and he never seemed confident in the new style until around Byrd 2

It's probably easy to be confident in a style when your biggest issue (especially at that time) is your chin. Byrd was obviously no real threat there.

[margaret thatcher]

Prime is when a dude is at his best, when was Wlad his best overall. Like, most effective vs the widest range of opponents

[oogiebe]

Prime is when a dude is at his best, when was Wlad his best overall. Like, most effective vs the widest range of opponents

Way after Sanders. A couple of fights into his time with Steward.

[gilgamesh]

Prime is when a dude is at his best, when was Wlad his best overall. Like, most effective vs the widest range of opponents

He traded in some weaknesses for others, and it lead to him having a World title reign. His old style likely would've gotten him knocked out again against the likes of say Sam Peter, but on the other hand. His old style also would've likely lead to him winning by KO against David Haye instead of decision. Winning by KO in 1 against Mormeck instead of 4.

So Wlad's a unique case like that. There aren't a lot of guys who have a complete change in styles like that that's so noticeable.

[Onetimeonly]

Where would you rank him on a list of heavyweights who have fought since Lewis retired?

I think Wlad and Vitali come in one and two.

Then 3-5 I think you could argue Povetkin, Fury and AJ in any order.

Yes, I’m aware AJ beat an older Povetkin, but Povetkin’s longevity counts and the quality of opposition who he has lost to counts as well.
Whyte would be a very good win, especially considering Povetkin is over 40.

In my opinion it’d be one of the best post 40 year old heavyweight wins of all time and it would also raise up Joshua somewhat.

Thoughts?

Fury, povetkin and aj are already above vitali.

[keirw]

It'd be a solid win, and might up his resume ever so slightly, and get him one more title shot.

As of now I'd figure Povetkin is probably like the 6th best guy or so since Lewis' retirement. Something like that. I don't think beating Whyte moves him up any.

Tyson Fury is already ahead of Vitali to me, and if he beats Wilder again, and Joshua he's ahead of Wlad too.

If Fury beats Wilder again and then AJ how far is he from matching Lewis himself?

I appreciate it is a far less celebrated era completely cleaning out entire era (any era) isn't to be sniffed at.

If he beats Joshua, and Wilder again, and then manages a few more wins over Top 10 guys before he hangs 'em up. Yeah he'd probably be right there in the conversation with Lewis.

Especially if he never takes an L. Which I find pretty unlikely if he keeps at it for very long.

Yeah, maybe he needs to beat Usyk or Whyte and maybe one of the next generation (Dubois, Hrgovic, Ajagba, etc...) if he sticks around long enough.

[SportsRatings]

In terms of longetivity at a high level, he's hard to beat, even if he was never champ

Not many guys can say they were #3 in the world for over 8 years straight

[Enlightened-One]

In terms of longetivity at a high level, he's hard to beat, even if he was never champ

Not many guys can say they were #3 in the world for over 8 years straight

He was only top three for six years and it wasn't a consecutive run (2009, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015), but I get what you're saying. Povetkin has had a good career.

That said, he was very lucky against Hunter and Huck. And his bouts against Hughie Fury and David Price were far more competitive than they should have been, but I guess he was already past-his-prime by then.

I also feel him testing positive for banned substances on two separate occasions (i.e. Ostarine and Meldonium), having engaged in a lack of legitimate title fights, coupled with him never being considered as the main man in his own division, is the reason why some people (like myself) feels he doesn't quite deserve to be ranked amongst the top-five heavyweights since Lennox Lewis' retirement.

Despite having bags of talent and potential during his prime, he's achieved very little (title success & victories over notable names) during the course of his fifteen-year career.

I really can't help thinking that I'm being harsh by expressing those sentiments since I've always been a Povetkin fan, but if I had to be honest, I feel he's an underachiever because I honestly expected more from him.

[Contendeh]

Good on Pov. Top 5 for me since Lewis retired. Knocking out Whyte at 41 is impressive.

[DrDuke]

Glad for Sasha. Rooted for him, but thought, he would suffer a controversial decision loss, but he just didn't let it go to the judges.

[margaret thatcher]

That dude here who said that Luis Ortiz beating Tony Thompson tops anything Pov ever did, I wonder if he changed his mind

[Enlightened-One]

Mixed emotions.

Glad Povetkin won.

Sad Whyte lost.

It’s unfortunate that there always has to be a “loser” when two genuine warriors face each other, which is a very rare occurrence.

[Finkel]

Mixed emotions.

Glad Povetkin won.

Sad Whyte lost.

It’s unfortunate that there always has to be a “loser” when two genuine warriors face each other, which is a very rare occurrence.

Same, but I am sure there will be a rematch, and I for one will be looking forward to it.

Plus, I don't think either Whyte nor Povetkin (now) would have been getting their WBC title shot in Feb 2021, so I don't think this really derails Whyte just yet.

Great win for Povetkin, I'll be interested to see where he falls on the current rankings.

[Perseus]

Best since Lewis retired?
Is this a new category?

I look at Povetkin as just another boxer who was very good but fell short when he had a chance at the top.
Boxers who fit that description are perpetually present.
There is no shame in being that guy, not everybody gets to be a hall of famer.

For me his best wins are:

Dillian Whyte KO 5
40 years old, clearly diminished, clearly losing, erases a top contender with one punch. This will likely stand as his most memorable win and may be his best opponent defeated.

Ruslan Chagaev UD 12
Marco Huck MD12
Eddie Chambers UD12
Johann Dahaupas KO 6

Solid, respectable career and he's not done.

[margaret thatcher]

I'd have the KTFO of Takam in there for him, probably even the win over faded Byrd ahead of beating Huck, since a lot of people diss the Huck win. The Duhaupas KTFO was great, and over a normally durable guy who even Wilder didn't drop, but the circumstances of the fight sully it a bit for me

Perez ktfo might be an underrated win too, though not in his top few wins. People can look at him going to cruiser (and losing), but he had just been basically 6-6 with Bryant Jennings 1 fight before. I mean Ortiz has basically had an entire career of being hyped as a monster for beating Jenn, but Jenn and Perez were pretty much even.

Looking at his record, he has loads of wins over 2nd level cotenders and fringe contenders too, ones that are sort of semi notable but not particularly impressive

solid career no doubt, he's a skilled offensive fighter

[bobcatbox]

Best since Lewis retired?
Is this a new category?

I look at Povetkin as just another boxer who was very good but fell short when he had a chance at the top.
Boxers who fit that description are perpetually present.
There is no shame in being that guy, not everybody gets to be a hall of famer.

For me his best wins are:

Dillian Whyte KO 5
40 years old, clearly diminished, clearly losing, erases a top contender with one punch. This will likely stand as his most memorable win and may be his best opponent defeated.

Ruslan Chagaev UD 12
Marco Huck MD12
Eddie Chambers UD12
Johann Dahaupas KO 6

Solid, respectable career and he's not done.

Well said! I agree that his KO today will he remembered as his biggest victory.

[margaret thatcher]

Best since Lewis retired?
Is this a new category?

I look at Povetkin as just another boxer who was very good but fell short when he had a chance at the top.
Boxers who fit that description are perpetually present.
There is no shame in being that guy, not everybody gets to be a hall of famer.

For me his best wins are:

Dillian Whyte KO 5
40 years old, clearly diminished, clearly losing, erases a top contender with one punch. This will likely stand as his most memorable win and may be his best opponent defeated.

Ruslan Chagaev UD 12
Marco Huck MD12
Eddie Chambers UD12
Johann Dahaupas KO 6

Solid, respectable career and he's not done.

No, people have talked about 'the best since Lewis retired' for years

[Contendeh]

Best since Lewis retired?
Is this a new category?

I look at Povetkin as just another boxer who was very good but fell short when he had a chance at the top.
Boxers who fit that description are perpetually present.
There is no shame in being that guy, not everybody gets to be a hall of famer.

For me his best wins are:

Dillian Whyte KO 5
40 years old, clearly diminished, clearly losing, erases a top contender with one punch. This will likely stand as his most memorable win and may be his best opponent defeated.

Ruslan Chagaev UD 12
Marco Huck MD12
Eddie Chambers UD12
Johann Dahaupas KO 6

Solid, respectable career and he's not done.

It’s a question of how much value one places on longevity and how much value one places on the quality of opposition a fighter has lost to versus
how good can someone be who has never “beat the man who beat the man.”

It is very rare for a Heavyweight to be a legit top ten (often top 5) guy for over 12 years and not ever be THE GUY.

It is also rare for a fighter in his 40s to have wins as good as Povetkin did today.

Foreman and Holmes did, but they also took massive amounts of time off between doing so.