BoxRec

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑09 Sep 2020, 07:11

gilgamesh wrote: ↑08 Sep 2020, 11:47 I would rather Tony Bellew die right now than to see him kill Boxing.

If Bellew’s and the WBC’s plans come to fruition, it’ll only have minimal impact on the heavyweight division.

Deontay Wilder is pretty much the only fighter within the last decade (i.e. nine years and ten months to be precise) to have successfully competed in world heavyweight title fights weighing less than 220lbs (and he only did it three times).

The Bronze Bomber's future is uncertain when he loses to Fury again in December.

And there’s no guarantee that the injury-prone Oleksandr Usyk, who’s on the cusp of turning 35 years of age, will achieve anything either.

Those are the only two world-rated guys that would be affected by this change, which might not even be implemented for several years (perhaps after they've both left the world stage).

OK, I’ll put my hands up and admit to being proven wrong, if you’re able to list several genuine young prospects that are small heavyweights that typically compete weighing less than 220lbs?

I can’t think of any, but perhaps you know more than me and can name a few.

You got potentially Gassiev..

Hrgovic has weighed around 225

Hughie Fury has weighed around 220

Petar Milas

Alen Babic

Not one shred of Mainstream interest among any of them names either. So yeah, a new division. That's what's needed

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑09 Sep 2020, 11:55

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑09 Sep 2020, 07:11

gilgamesh wrote: ↑08 Sep 2020, 11:47 I would rather Tony Bellew die right now than to see him kill Boxing.

If Bellew’s and the WBC’s plans come to fruition, it’ll only have minimal impact on the heavyweight division.

Deontay Wilder is pretty much the only fighter within the last decade (i.e. nine years and ten months to be precise) to have successfully competed in world heavyweight title fights weighing less than 220lbs (and he only did it three times).

The Bronze Bomber's future is uncertain when he loses to Fury again in December.

And there’s no guarantee that the injury-prone Oleksandr Usyk, who’s on the cusp of turning 35 years of age, will achieve anything either.

Those are the only two world-rated guys that would be affected by this change, which might not even be implemented for several years (perhaps after they've both left the world stage).

OK, I’ll put my hands up and admit to being proven wrong, if you’re able to list several genuine young prospects that are small heavyweights that typically compete weighing less than 220lbs?

I can’t think of any, but perhaps you know more than me and can name a few.

You got potentially Gassiev..

Hrgovic has weighed around 225

Hughie Fury has weighed around 220

Petar Milas

Alen Babic

The 6’ 3½” Murat Gassiev has never competed at heavyweight yet, but I have an unfounded sneaking suspicion about him weighing more than 220lbs when he makes his debut at the weight. Abel Sanchez seems to think he was killing himself trying to make 200lbs and is better suited than Usyk in his new habitat.

Hughie Fury is gaining weight as he gets older. And by his own admission, he’s filled out a bit and gained some “man strength”. He'll typically weigh around the 240lbs mark for future bouts (based on what he told iFL TV).

He only turned 25 years of age a few days ago, which seems weird, if you consider he's been mixing with the likes of Parker, Pulev and Povetkin within the last three years.

And to be honest, I don’t know much about Petar Milas, but his resume suggests he hasn’t weighed less than 220lbs for more than three years.

You’re probably right about Alen Babic being a small heavyweight, but I don’t rate his chances of becoming a future threat against today’s top-ten world-rated fighters.

I’ve only seen him compete once and he seems fairly fleshy to me, because he was clearly carrying a spare tyre in the Winters bout.

He’s also only competed in four fights, is short, only weighs 205lbs and on the cusp of turning thirty years of age, which means he’s no spring chicken. Babic is probably better suited at cruiserweight, but he needs to get his skates on and progressed aggressively.

So I don’t feel you’ve provided strong examples of genuine future top-ten world-class prospects that would be adversely affected by the WBC’s potential super-cruiserweight division. If anything, a small fighter like Babic would probably benefit, because he'd be facing similarly-sized opposition, rather than being out-gunned by much bigger men.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑09 Sep 2020, 11:30

H8Usernames wrote: ↑09 Sep 2020, 04:20

gilgamesh wrote: ↑08 Sep 2020, 21:48

Add to the credibility of the sport?

What the f*ck is wrong with people like you?

You've never even strapped on a pair of gloves. What the profanity is wrong with.me? What rhe profanity is wrong with you? Go watch kickboxing, boxing doesnt need you.

I have in fact strapped on a pair of gloves, and I guarantee the sport means more to me than it does to you, so does the integrity and the tradition of it.

Such utter empty words. The sport of boxing means so much to you why? Cause you dont have a job,kids,friends etc and you need to convince yourself that something means so much to you and that you mean so much to something? Sorry man but that sounds really lame.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑09 Sep 2020, 11:32 I wish Dempsey could come back from the grave and knock your f*cking teeth out.

Wishing bodily harm onto others. Such a normal way to participate in a discussion. So lame.

I don't have a problem with a new division.
I have more problems with the tiny divisions only having a few pounds difference between them.
It took years for the cruiserweight division to gain respect. I would expect it would take years for the new division to gain acceptance too. And by then God knows how big the average heavyweights will be then.
It's not the end of boxing. It's just another change from the original 8 divisions that will continue to change in the same regard

tiny_acres wrote: ↑11 Sep 2020, 08:56 I don't have a problem with a new division.
I have more problems with the tiny divisions only having a few pounds difference between them.
It took years for the cruiserweight division to gain respect. I would expect it would take years for the new division to gain acceptance too. And by then God knows how big the average heavyweights will be then.
It's not the end of boxing. It's just another change from the original 8 divisions that will continue to change in the same regard

Yes I think the same, to me its ridiculous you can move up and down a few pounds and be a '3' weight division world champion. I'd rather they scrapped the light and super weight divisions and made the it fairer for those 175+ and above.

No, no and no. We need less divisions, not more.

HWs are HWs. If you can’t step up, don’t join in.

Loki wrote: ↑11 Sep 2020, 10:51 No, no and no. We need less divisions, not more.

HWs are HWs. If you can’t step up, don’t join in.

So no CW division either and back to being a HW if you are over 175lbs?

I want to formally protest to the creation of a super cruiserweight division. A Jr cruiserweight division should be created instead. Sounds much better. Lhw... Jr Cw... Cw.... Hw.

H8Usernames wrote: ↑11 Sep 2020, 12:37 I want to formally protest to the creation of a super cruiserweight division. A Jr cruiserweight division should be created instead. Sounds much better. Lhw... Jr Cw... Cw.... Hw.

Both sound stupid as all sh*t, and whoever came up with the idea deserves to get shot.

Controversial wrote: ↑11 Sep 2020, 11:19

Loki wrote: ↑11 Sep 2020, 10:51 No, no and no. We need less divisions, not more.

HWs are HWs. If you can’t step up, don’t join in.

So no CW division either and back to being a HW if you are over 175lbs?

Exactly. The sport changes. Fighters are getting bigger. I dont see an issue.
No way does it affect the greats of the past who would of never been in the weight divisions they fought in today. Because of same day weigh ins and more divisions.
The past is the past. It is not changed. Their legacy is already made.
Fighters are way bigger not necessarily better but bigger.

tiny_acres wrote: ↑11 Sep 2020, 13:11

Controversial wrote: ↑11 Sep 2020, 11:19

Loki wrote: ↑11 Sep 2020, 10:51 No, no and no. We need less divisions, not more.

HWs are HWs. If you can’t step up, don’t join in.

So no CW division either and back to being a HW if you are over 175lbs?

Exactly. The sport changes. Fighters are getting bigger. I dont see an issue.
No way does it affect the greats of the past who would of never been in the weight divisions they fought in today. Because of same day weigh ins and more divisions.
The past is the past. It is not changed. Their legacy is already made.
Fighters are way bigger not necessarily better but bigger.

I would have no issue with keeping the Strawweight and Cruiserweight divisions even though they're not original because they serve a purpose and make sense. Though I'd drop Cruiserweight back down to the original 190.

Other than that, every other Jr. and Super weight class is useless and only serves to water down the sport, and make Championships and Champions less significant.

If Jr. Middleweight or Jr. Welterweight didn't exist, the only thing that would happen is we'd have a more loaded Middleweight or Welterweight division. It'd be a win-win.

I even think exceptions should be made that somebody should be able to compete at the next weight class up without having to gain weight if they're so inclined, but this should probably be reserved for Elite Pound for Pound type talents.

But yeah if there's an exceptionally talented guy who weighs say 185 and he wants to compete at Heavyweight. Let him.

Might seem like a crazy idea, but it'd be interesting to see.

I doubt most people would attempt such a thing, but some might.

Any extra division somewhere above 200 pounds, and the sport's interest will drop dramatically I promise you.

Why do you think the UFC and Kickboxing don't have all these extra weight classes? Because they know it doesn't help anything. It just drives people away and waters everything down.

Yea having 60+ beltholders is a big part of what has brought boxing down over the years. We don't need to add more.

Boxing does not need more weight classes.
Boxing does not need more weight classes.
Boxing does not need more weight classes.
Boxing does not need more weight classes.
Boxing does not need more weight classes.
Boxing does not need more weight classes.
Boxing does not need more weight classes.
Boxing does not need more weight classes.
Boxing does not need more weight classes.
Boxing does not need more weight classes.

Personally I think that two more weight classes should be added. The Jr Cruiserweight division at 190. Cruiserweight at 205 and super cruiserweigt at 220. I realize that this is a minority opinion but boxing should be a sport in my opinion and not a wwe ufc fake kind of hype thing.

Boxing has 17 weight classes and 4+ belts per division.

MMA has 8 weight classes and 1-2 belts (depending on whether you count Bellator, and the UFC has occasionally used an "interim" title) per division.

This is a big reason why MMA has been eating boxing's lunch for the last decade.

H8Usernames wrote: ↑12 Sep 2020, 11:04 Personally I think that two more weight classes should be added. The Jr Cruiserweight division at 190. Cruiserweight at 205 and super cruiserweigt at 220. I realize that this is a minority opinion but boxing should be a sport in my opinion and not a wwe ufc fake kind of hype thing.

If having extra weight classes makes a sport a sport in your eyes then professional boxing is already doing just fine. They've got about twice as many weight classes (if not more) than just about any other sport anyone has heard of.

jujigatame wrote: ↑12 Sep 2020, 11:14 Boxing has 17 weight classes and 4+ belts per division.

MMA has 8 weight classes and 1-2 belts (depending on whether you count Bellator, and the UFC has occasionally used an "interim" title) per division.

Also, UFC use the 'interim' the correct way. The real world champion eventually fights the interim within a year.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑09 Sep 2020, 11:32

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑09 Sep 2020, 07:11

gilgamesh wrote: ↑08 Sep 2020, 11:47 I would rather Tony Bellew die right now than to see him kill Boxing.

If Bellew’s and the WBC’s plans come to fruition, it’ll only have minimal impact on the heavyweight division.

Deontay Wilder is pretty much the only fighter within the last decade (i.e. nine years and ten months to be precise) to have successfully competed in world heavyweight title fights weighing less than 220lbs (and he only did it three times).

The Bronze Bomber's future is uncertain when he loses to Fury again in December.

And there’s no guarantee that the injury-prone Oleksandr Usyk, who’s on the cusp of turning 35 years of age, will achieve anything either.

Those are the only two world-rated guys that would be affected by this change, which might not even be implemented for several years (perhaps after they've both left the world stage).

And let’s face it, based on the last two decades, nearly all the fighters that compete in world heavyweight title bouts weigh more than 240lbs anyway. The stats don't lie - they are what they are!

I don’t understand the reasoning behind your extreme outrage, because this change will have minimal impact on the heavyweight division and it won't affect its legacy either.

It seems to me that you’re making a mountain out of a molehill.

OK, I’ll put my hands up and admit to being proven wrong, if you’re able to list several genuine young prospects that are small heavyweights that typically compete weighing less than 220lbs?

I can’t think of any, but perhaps you know more than me and can name a few.

Yeah...hey f*ck it. Let's make all goals made in Basketball 3 pointers. Let's make every Base hit in Baseball a Homerun. F*ck tradition.

I wish Dempsey could come back from the grave and knock your f*cking teeth out.

Dempsey would have been too small for that, EO probably weighs 300lb remember.

Anyway, my two cents . Where were we. Oh yes. No more weight divisions please.

H8Usernames wrote: ↑09 Sep 2020, 04:20

gilgamesh wrote: ↑08 Sep 2020, 21:48

H8Usernames wrote: ↑08 Sep 2020, 15:59 This will add to the credibility of the sport and reduce the wwe boxling factors. The 190 pound division was a respectable, old and established one.

Good work Tony Bellew.

Add to the credibility of the sport?

What the f*ck is wrong with people like you?

You've never even strapped on a pair of gloves. What the profanity is wrong with.me? What rhe profanity is wrong with you? Go watch kickboxing, boxing doesnt need you.

You don't 'strap on' gloves, you lace them up you helmet.

You're probably getting them confused with your dildos.

I'm not a huge fan of Bellew, but I do agree with him that there should be something between LHW and CW.

Maybe a light cruiserweight division at 185-190ish would be the answer.

I see no reason to make HW 220, 200 for HW is perfectly fine.

jujigatame wrote: ↑12 Sep 2020, 11:14 Boxing has 17 weight classes and 4+ belts per division.

MMA has 8 weight classes and 1-2 belts (depending on whether you count Bellator, and the UFC has occasionally used an "interim" title) per division.

This is a big reason why MMA has been eating boxing's lunch for the last decade.

Could MMA ever even pass boxing?

Maybe, maybe not.

In fact if you consider that some of the biggest recent matchups in boxing have been celebrity ones then it's obvious that personality goes a long way - a very long way. It always did

So it remains to be seen which sport will have the biggest personalities in the future.

It's also telling that DAZN considered 2 MMA fighters to be more relevant potential opponents for Canelo than either Kovalev, or Fielding. At least up there with Danny Jacobs.

Canelo himself, arguably boxing's biggest draw, is doing less than nothing to help the sport that gave him fabulous wealth.

Boxing is in a serious self inflicted mess with a distinct lack of star names and maybe Tyson v Jones Jr is the biggest fight it can currently deliver.

If it's not dead, it's certainly on life support with vultures like Bellew queuing up to take a slice.

Maybe Wladimir could come back to buy us some time whilst we await the next global superstar.

Thanks Tony.

I get both sides of the argument for and against this proposition and am kind of torn. On one hand adding another weight class will only water down the sport. But, I get where a guy who is between 210-220 wouldn't be able to compete against 250-260 regardless of skill.