BoxRec

Coco wrote: ↑24 Sep 2020, 20:53

After Marsh had quit and sold his story to the sun, he turned up in Cardiff(I think it was Cardiff but I'm not100%)expecting to carry on his commentating gig and was refused entry(replaced by McGuigan).

It was just before Xmas and he snuck back in dressed as Santa Claus, only to be found and given a hammering by some security.

Not long after FW was shot

Were there two attacks on Marsh? Only because Marsh was assaulted in 2007 at a festival in Barking by security or is that a different thing? The shooting was in 1989.

"FORMER world boxing champion Terry Marsh needed medical treatment after a late-night tussle with security staff outside a nightclub complex. The 49-year-old former light-welterweight title holder came off worst after an incident in which he says he was "slammed to the ground" in the car park of Festival Leisure Park, Basildon. The rumpus came as the former firefighter, was collecting his 17-year-old son, Karl, from work at the leisure park at 11pm on Friday. He said he watched as many as eight security guards using what he claimed was "excessive force" to restrain a man in the car park."

https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_ ... seriously/

Controversial wrote: ↑25 Sep 2020, 03:51

Coco wrote: ↑24 Sep 2020, 20:53

After Marsh had quit and sold his story to the sun, he turned up in Cardiff(I think it was Cardiff but I'm not100%)expecting to carry on his commentating gig and was refused entry(replaced by McGuigan).

It was just before Xmas and he snuck back in dressed as Santa Claus, only to be found and given a hammering by some security.

Not long after FW was shot

Were there two attacks on Marsh? Only because Marsh was assaulted in 2007 at a festival in Barking by security or is that a different thing? The shooting was in 1989.

"FORMER world boxing champion Terry Marsh needed medical treatment after a late-night tussle with security staff outside a nightclub complex. The 49-year-old former light-welterweight title holder came off worst after an incident in which he says he was "slammed to the ground" in the car park of Festival Leisure Park, Basildon. The rumpus came as the former firefighter, was collecting his 17-year-old son, Karl, from work at the leisure park at 11pm on Friday. He said he watched as many as eight security guards using what he claimed was "excessive force" to restrain a man in the car park."

https://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/local_ ... seriously/

Yeah he def got done outside the changing rooms dressed up as Santa Claus not long before FW got shot

FW getting shot is covered in the brilliant, 'This Bloody Mary Is The Last Thing I own'.
Rendall seems to think he saw the shooter prior to the shooting and he was looking nervous and agitated.

Was there any specific reason that Marsh was fingered in the first place?

Shhhh wrote: ↑25 Sep 2020, 12:05
Marsh is definitely a head case. His book is weird

He's certainly had an interesting life, Royal Marine, fireman, top amateur boxer, pro boxer, prime suspect in a attempted murder, tried his hand at politics, bit of acting, wrote a book, does his chess-boxing and was a stockbroker too.

Wiki says a prison confession was used in evidence when Terry was charged. . Was very surprised to also read that Terry didn't take the stand. If you're charged with murder, and you're innocent, surely you take the stand ?

Just read a 2010 daily mirror interview with fwank. He talks of the shooter without naming him. Reading between the lines he could have been implying it was Terry. Not sure if fwank has ever said it wasn't Terry who shot him ?

A pal of mine worked for Frankf and back then Frank definitely thought it was Terry, from his physique, way he moved etc, don't know if he still does

It's such a shame because Marsh was F rank Warren's first ever signing but British boxing is littered with fighters who win a world title and suddenly get the notion they did it all by themselves. McGuigan fell out with Eastwood, Conteh with Duff, Kid Bassey with Biddles, Buchanan with Thomas... I could go on. Ironically, Marsh fell out with F rank when he was preparing to meet his mandatory challenger, a fighter by the name of F rank Warren. You could't make it up.

JimJim2009 wrote: ↑25 Sep 2020, 18:56 Wiki says a prison confession was used in evidence when Terry was charged. . Was very surprised to also read that Terry didn't take the stand. If you're charged with murder, and you're innocent, surely you take the stand ?

To be fair you unless it can be properly verified wikipedia can be inaccurate, and often is. Anyone can edit wikipedia and type what they like.

Controversial wrote: ↑26 Sep 2020, 09:56

JimJim2009 wrote: ↑25 Sep 2020, 18:56 Wiki says a prison confession was used in evidence when Terry was charged. . Was very surprised to also read that Terry didn't take the stand. If you're charged with murder, and you're innocent, surely you take the stand ?

To be fair you unless it can be properly verified wikipedia can be inaccurate, and often is. Anyone can edit wikipedia and type what they like.

Saying that I have edited Wikipedia a few times to edit obvious blunders or to add things and they get deleted almost immediately

Coco wrote: ↑26 Sep 2020, 09:59

Controversial wrote: ↑26 Sep 2020, 09:56

JimJim2009 wrote: ↑25 Sep 2020, 18:56 Wiki says a prison confession was used in evidence when Terry was charged. . Was very surprised to also read that Terry didn't take the stand. If you're charged with murder, and you're innocent, surely you take the stand ?

To be fair you unless it can be properly verified wikipedia can be inaccurate, and often is. Anyone can edit wikipedia and type what they like.

Saying that I have edited Wikipedia a few times to edit obvious blunders or to add things and they get deleted almost immediately

I guess that kind of proves how inaccurate it can be then. Luckily the few pages I've edited have stayed how I left them, there have been some glaringly obvious fake or piss-take entries though over the years on various pages. Even wikipedia says its information shouldn't be taken as accurate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... ble_source

Controversial wrote: ↑26 Sep 2020, 10:16

Coco wrote: ↑26 Sep 2020, 09:59

Controversial wrote: ↑26 Sep 2020, 09:56

To be fair you unless it can be properly verified wikipedia can be inaccurate, and often is. Anyone can edit wikipedia and type what they like.

Saying that I have edited Wikipedia a few times to edit obvious blunders or to add things and they get deleted almost immediately

I guess that kind of proves how inaccurate it can be then. Luckily the few pages I've edited have stayed how I left them, there have been some glaringly obvious fake or piss-take entries though over the years on various pages. Even wikipedia says its information shouldn't be taken as accurate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... ble_source

All you need to do is look at the end of a sentence, there will be a refernece. Click on the link, it will take you to the website to prove if what has been written is accurate. If there is no reference after the sentence or paragraph, then chances are it's inaccurrate.

I have updated many boxing articles over the last few years, always providing sources for what I write.

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑26 Sep 2020, 10:37

Controversial wrote: ↑26 Sep 2020, 10:16

Coco wrote: ↑26 Sep 2020, 09:59

Saying that I have edited Wikipedia a few times to edit obvious blunders or to add things and they get deleted almost immediately

I guess that kind of proves how inaccurate it can be then. Luckily the few pages I've edited have stayed how I left them, there have been some glaringly obvious fake or piss-take entries though over the years on various pages. Even wikipedia says its information shouldn't be taken as accurate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia ... ble_source

All you need to do is look at the end of a sentence, there will be a refernece. Click on the link, it will take you to the website to prove if what has been written is accurate. If there is no reference after the sentence or paragraph, then chances are it's inaccurrate.

I have updated many boxing articles over the last few years, always providing sources for what I write.

Yes I know how it works but many things on wikipedia don't have reference points or just link to a newspaper article, which we all know newspapers are often wrong about lots of things.

JimJim2009 wrote: ↑25 Sep 2020, 18:56 Wiki says a prison confession was used in evidence when Terry was charged. . Was very surprised to also read that Terry didn't take the stand. If you're charged with murder, and you're innocent, surely you take the stand ?

Not if your legal team advise you not to. Unless you're a bit of an idiot you'd follow their guidance and, given how the case turned out, it looks like they were well on top of things.

BoxerEd25 wrote: ↑28 Sep 2020, 04:17

JimJim2009 wrote: ↑25 Sep 2020, 18:56 Wiki says a prison confession was used in evidence when Terry was charged. . Was very surprised to also read that Terry didn't take the stand. If you're charged with murder, and you're innocent, surely you take the stand ?

Not if your legal team advise you not to. Unless you're a bit of an idiot you'd follow their guidance and, given how the case turned out, it looks like they were well on top of things.

Obviously if it was on legal advice but if i was innocent of murder I would want to speak out and it is hard to fathom any legal team advising against that, then again I suppose you know yourself if you did it or not, whereas your solicitor will just accept what you say and work with it. I did jury service two years ago for a murder case, and the guy sunk himself in the witness box. The victim had been stabbed 50+ times in the back with a screw driver, and the defence case argued that it was self defence. The accused actually stood up in the witness box and tried to convince us that he'd stabbed the guy in the back all those times, whilst the guy was on his back with his hands around his neck - a piggy back, so to speak. He was trying to twist his arms back to show there would be the space to do it. We thought it was nonsense and during our brief deliberations we acted it out, climbing on each others backs and using a pen. There is just no way you can stab somebody in the back like that, when he has jumped on your back and wrapped his arms around your neck. So anyway in that case, the guy sunk himself by taking the stand, although in any event the evidence was overwhelming and he admitted he'd killed the guy he was just claiming self defence. His legal team would have taken him through the whole thing step by step, they knew he'd be challenged in the witness box over the particular circumstances of the injury, and he still took the stand. Maybe they advised him not to but he overruled them, who knows.

Getting back to Terry, there are an argument for motive (the ongoing libel case) and that questionable "confession" in prison when he was on remand for ten months. You could flip the former on its head though, if you were being sued for libel, and your boxing career/income was over with, its a bit short sighted to try to kill the person suing you, as the Police would surely come knocking.....

Terry is very anti authority, very hot headed and VERY anti FW. A good prosecutor would have made him go mad in the dock. Not a good look.

I remember FW used to do his nut when Boxing Central the forerunner to this forum used to discuss this and speak about the totally unrelated T Marsh.

milpool wrote: ↑25 Sep 2020, 11:49 FW getting shot is covered in the brilliant, 'This Bloody Mary Is The Last Thing I own'.
Rendall seems to think he saw the shooter prior to the shooting and he was looking nervous and agitated.

Was there any specific reason that Marsh was fingered in the first place?

That camp had previously been involved with Terry Marsh.
I’m pretty confident that they recognised him

Shhhh wrote: ↑28 Sep 2020, 11:10 Why did The case break down? Lack of evidence?

Terry's wife allegedly pointed the finger at him but she then (allegedly) retracted her statement and the case against Marsh proved very flimsy indeed.

mickey1975 wrote: ↑28 Sep 2020, 08:39 Terry is very anti authority, very hot headed and VERY anti FW. A good prosecutor would have made him go mad in the dock. Not a good look.

I remember at a Board do in Cardiff in 2003, they sat Marsh as far away from F rank Warren as possible. Even Mickey Duff was closer. Marsh has a history of cutting off his nose to spite his face. He won the ABA welterweight title in 1980 but was ordered to box-off for the Olympic spot with Joey Frost, a man he had beaten on the way to the ABA title. However, it was well known that Frost was suffering from bad hands so the box-off was ordered and Marsh flatly refused, even though he had a great chance of winning an Olympic medal in Moscow. Frost went instead and flattened a couple of guys before losing a decision to a good boxer. Just as an aside, I was on a Liverpool to London train in July 1980 and there seated in second class were George Gilbody, Ray Gilbody and Frost, all wearing Olympic suits. I wonder if Seb Coe and Steve Ovett travelled second class.

bennie wrote: ↑30 Sep 2020, 04:34

mickey1975 wrote: ↑28 Sep 2020, 08:39 Terry is very anti authority, very hot headed and VERY anti FW. A good prosecutor would have made him go mad in the dock. Not a good look.

I remember at a Board do in Cardiff in 2003, they sat Marsh as far away from F rank Warren as possible. Even Mickey Duff was closer. Marsh has a history of cutting off his nose to spite his face. He won the ABA welterweight title in 1980 but was ordered to box-off for the Olympic spot with Joey Frost, a man he had beaten on the way to the ABA title. However, it was well known that Frost was suffering from bad hands so the box-off was ordered and Marsh flatly refused, even though he had a great chance of winning an Olympic medal in Moscow. Frost went instead and flattened a couple of guys before losing a decision to a good boxer. Just as an aside, I was on a Liverpool to London train in July 1980 and there seated in second class were George Gilbody, Ray Gilbody and Frost, all wearing Olympic suits. I wonder if Seb Coe and Steve Ovett travelled second class.

why wouldn't he fight the guy with bad hands? cos he'd already beat him?

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑30 Sep 2020, 04:47

bennie wrote: ↑30 Sep 2020, 04:34

mickey1975 wrote: ↑28 Sep 2020, 08:39 Terry is very anti authority, very hot headed and VERY anti FW. A good prosecutor would have made him go mad in the dock. Not a good look.

I remember at a Board do in Cardiff in 2003, they sat Marsh as far away from F rank Warren as possible. Even Mickey Duff was closer. Marsh has a history of cutting off his nose to spite his face. He won the ABA welterweight title in 1980 but was ordered to box-off for the Olympic spot with Joey Frost, a man he had beaten on the way to the ABA title. However, it was well known that Frost was suffering from bad hands so the box-off was ordered and Marsh flatly refused, even though he had a great chance of winning an Olympic medal in Moscow. Frost went instead and flattened a couple of guys before losing a decision to a good boxer. Just as an aside, I was on a Liverpool to London train in July 1980 and there seated in second class were George Gilbody, Ray Gilbody and Frost, all wearing Olympic suits. I wonder if Seb Coe and Steve Ovett travelled second class.

why wouldn't he fight the guy with bad hands? cos he'd already beat him?

Yes, he refused to fight him again on principle. Marsh had won a unanimous decision over Frost in the all-England finals at Gloucester in early April 1980 but the fight was close and the scores were close and the Olympic selectors took into account that Frost, a huge banger, fought with bruised hands, as did featherweight Pete Hanlon on the same night. (Hanlon lost to Mohammed Hanif.)
After the ABA finals in May, the selectors chose Hanlon to go to Moscow (even though Hanif won the ABA title) and ordered a box-off between Marsh and Frost for the welterweight spot. Marsh failed to impress in his ABA title win over Leamington's Eddie Byrne, standing off for two rounds against an opponent who did the same and the two men tangled up in the third. However, Marsh wouldn't budge on his refusal to fight Frost again and in all fairness to the man, he went in there and beat Frost at a key stage in the ABAs and Joey's bad hands had absolutely nothing to do with him.

Thanks Bennie

whilst I've got you- that Japanese- Korean superfeatherweight fight you liked over on the classic fights thread recently- was that John Coyle I saw, watching the Japanese lad getting pummeled and looking on the verge of stepping in but not quite doing so, for what seemed like a minute?

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑30 Sep 2020, 05:27 Thanks Bennie

whilst I've got you- that Japanese- Korean superfeatherweight fight you liked over on the classic fights thread recently- was that John Coyle I saw, watching the Japanese lad getting pummeled and looking on the verge of stepping in but not quite doing so, for what seemed like a minute?

Yes, it was Coyle. I thought he got it just about right. Let's just say that he gave the lad every chance.

bennie wrote: ↑30 Sep 2020, 05:39

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑30 Sep 2020, 05:27 Thanks Bennie

whilst I've got you- that Japanese- Korean superfeatherweight fight you liked over on the classic fights thread recently- was that John Coyle I saw, watching the Japanese lad getting pummeled and looking on the verge of stepping in but not quite doing so, for what seemed like a minute?

Yes, it was Coyle. I thought he got it just about right. Let's just say that he gave the lad every chance.

coincidentally, the home fighter.

I was a bit uncomfortable with it, it seemed like 3 times he was on the verge of stopping it, but he'd waited so long that the Korean had temporarily punched himself out- giving the Japanese lad chance to 'throw' a couple of ever-more feeble punches to show he was 'still in the fight'. those episodes prolonged the fight a little further than it needed to have gone, the Japanese lads punches were getting feebler and his head was getting more and more visibly rocked by those he was taking.

Am I right in thinking that the Marsh/Warren fallout happened after a world title fight for Marsh was cancelled when he went public about the fact he suffered from epilepsy and had hidden the fact from the Board. If memory serves me right did Marsh claim in the Sunday newspaper who covered the exclusive that Warren knew of his epilepsy ??