BoxRec

If we have to talk facts and be fair, PBF's toughest fight at 135 lbs and from his career was Castillo who previously had four TKO's losses against some no names.

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑25 Oct 2020, 13:14

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑24 Oct 2020, 20:36

H8Usernames wrote: ↑24 Oct 2020, 20:25

You are saying that Jose Louis Castillo was something special when he fought Mayweather for the first time despite having 4 Ko losses on his record at that time? Or did Castillo prove himself the Goat after their fights?

Yes, he was great when he fought Floyd.

Castillo was good, but never special. If he was, you would hear people questioning why he wasn't named as part of the HOF yet.

True. Castillo was good but nothing more. Yet he gave hell to PBF in their first fight.

apollo creed wrote: ↑25 Oct 2020, 13:31 If we have to talk facts and be fair, PBF's toughest fight at 135 lbs and from his career was Castillo who previously had four TKO's losses against some no names.

Do you not consider Castillo a future hall-of-famer?

He only recently qualified for the ballot.

How many potential Hall-of-Famers has Lomachenko beat at 135lbs or below?

We can play the facts game if you want?

Do you feel that Lomachenko has beaten more future Hall-of-Famers than Mayweather?

Shall we compare the resumes of the near 33 year old version of Lomachenko to Floyd Mayweather, because it seems you want to talk facts?

Castillo lost a few on cuts when he was young. Orlando salido lost more yet he managed to upset all you lomasexuals too.

H8Usernames wrote: ↑24 Oct 2020, 20:25

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑24 Oct 2020, 17:23 Regular?

You are saying that Jose Louis Castillo was something special when he fought Mayweather for the first time despite having 4 Ko losses on his record at that time? Or did Castillo prove himself the Goat after their fights?

Jose Luis Castilo was indeed a great fighter, and belongs in the Hall of Fame.

He was physically stronger than Floyd, and forced him to fight his fight like no other ever could accomplish.

A few of his losses were on cuts when he was a Featherweight. He both improved as a fighter, and I think benefited his body a lot by not draining down that far in his future bouts. He was a big Lightweight.

As for Mayweather vs Loma. Loma would've been able to give him a good go of it for a few rounds there, but Mayweather would've figured him out. You can't outbox Mayweather. You have to outfight him.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑25 Oct 2020, 20:28 Castillo lost a few on cuts when he was young. Orlando salido lost more yet he managed to upset all you lomasexuals too.

Double digit losses for Salido.

A perfect example of "Styles make fights"

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑25 Oct 2020, 19:00

apollo creed wrote: ↑25 Oct 2020, 13:31 If we have to talk facts and be fair, PBF's toughest fight at 135 lbs and from his career was Castillo who previously had four TKO's losses against some no names.

Do you not consider Castillo a future hall-of-famer?

He only recently qualified for the ballot.

How many potential Hall-of-Famers has Lomachenko beat at 135lbs or below?

We can play the facts game if you want?

Do you feel that Lomachenko has beaten more future Hall-of-Famers than Mayweather?

Shall we compare the resumes of the near 33 year old version of Lomachenko to Floyd Mayweather, because it seems you want to talk facts?

I don't know if Castillo will ever get voted into the Hall of Fame or not. He doesn't get nearly the credit he deserves from the Boxing world at large, but he certainly belongs there.

apollo creed wrote: ↑25 Oct 2020, 13:34

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑25 Oct 2020, 13:14

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑24 Oct 2020, 20:36

Yes, he was great when he fought Floyd.

Castillo was good, but never special. If he was, you would hear people questioning why he wasn't named as part of the HOF yet.

True. Castillo was good but nothing more. Yet he gave hell to PBF in their first fight.

He was a great pressure fighter. At his very best when he fought Floyd. Styles make fights. He gave Floyd the trouble he gave him because he didn't try to outbox him. He outfought him.

Everyone else foolishly got in there, and tried to Box Floyd. Castillo had the right style to give Floyd a hard time.

He actually deserves more credit than he gets for the 2nd fight I think. People act as if Floyd shut him out or something in the rematch, and he actually had one of his toughest fights again.

Over the course of 24 rounds, Castillo did better work.

But then Castillo had all he could handle with Corrales while Floyd dismantled him in one sided fashion.

Styles make fights.

IKSRTFO wrote: ↑25 Oct 2020, 13:14

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑24 Oct 2020, 20:36

H8Usernames wrote: ↑24 Oct 2020, 20:25

You are saying that Jose Louis Castillo was something special when he fought Mayweather for the first time despite having 4 Ko losses on his record at that time? Or did Castillo prove himself the Goat after their fights?

Yes, he was great when he fought Floyd.

Castillo was good, but never special. If he was, you would hear people questioning why he wasn't named as part of the HOF yet.

He wasn't a dynamic talent. Just a good, tough fighter who knew how to use his strengths as effectively as he possibly could. He was the kinda guy who could fight a guy who was noticeably more skilled than him, and beat him anyway.

Evander wrote: ↑25 Oct 2020, 03:04

apollo creed wrote: ↑24 Oct 2020, 10:59 2002 PBF vs 2018 Loma @ 135 lbs. PBF also was bigger in reach that Lopez (72″ vs 68½″ ) and both have 5′ 8″ in height. I also thought that Loma would gave 'hell' to a young PBF but man as the time goes and some fights happen, it shows how great and smart was Floyd.

Floyd was growing out of 135 from a young age.
Lomachenko had to grow into it a later age.

Growing out of it? He was the smaller man in every one of his 4 Lightweight bouts.

Floyd woulda beat Loma much worse than that

gilgamesh wrote: ↑25 Oct 2020, 20:35

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑25 Oct 2020, 20:28 Castillo lost a few on cuts when he was young. Orlando salido lost more yet he managed to upset all you lomasexuals too.

Double digit losses for Salido.

A perfect example of "Styles make fights"

It was not just about styles, but the pro style vs the amateur style. Lomachenko and his team tried to bite to much for them at that moment. Well, actually, I gave the edge to Lomachenko in that fight, but obviously it was a bad performance for him.

All the Floyd vs Jose Luis Castillo posts. The fight is actually somewhat of a myth manufactured by HBO. I was like most other fans and thought Floyd lost the first fight as well due to HBO commentators and unofficial scoring. Go to youtube and watch the first Mayweather-Castillo fight on Top Rank's channel. The commentators (while slightly biased for Floyd) are far more calm and it's more like just watching the fight with no commentary. After watching that in my opinion Floyd won that fight pretty clearly albeit competitive. Many of the flurries from castillo the HBO commentators were getting all riled up about were 90% misses while Floyd was landing clean on single punches or 2 punch combos. Floyd's toughest fight in my opinion was the first Maidana fight. Watched it on I think DAZN's channel instead of showtime with more neutral commentators and still had it very close.

sykessta wrote: ↑26 Oct 2020, 04:27 All the Floyd vs Jose Luis Castillo posts. The fight is actually somewhat of a myth manufactured by HBO. I was like most other fans and thought Floyd lost the first fight as well due to HBO commentators and unofficial scoring. Go to youtube and watch the first Mayweather-Castillo fight on Top Rank's channel. The commentators (while slightly biased for Floyd) are far more calm and it's more like just watching the fight with no commentary. After watching that in my opinion Floyd won that fight pretty clearly albeit competitive. Many of the flurries from castillo the HBO commentators were getting all riled up about were 90% misses while Floyd was landing clean on single punches or 2 punch combos. Floyd's toughest fight in my opinion was the first Maidana fight. Watched it on I think DAZN's channel instead of showtime with more neutral commentators and still had it very close.

I agree, the same stuff. In the past I had Castillo, but not long ago I've rewatched the fight in the Top Rank version and had Mayweather a bit ahead. Actually, it was just a close fight. I think, it's so popular to call it a robbery also because of the fact of Floyd's record, while this fight is just the closest in his career.

DrDuke wrote: ↑26 Oct 2020, 03:56

gilgamesh wrote: ↑25 Oct 2020, 20:35

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑25 Oct 2020, 20:28 Castillo lost a few on cuts when he was young. Orlando salido lost more yet he managed to upset all you lomasexuals too.

Double digit losses for Salido.

A perfect example of "Styles make fights"

It was not just about styles, but the pro style vs the amateur style. Lomachenko and his team tried to bite to much for them at that moment. Well, actually, I gave the edge to Lomachenko in that fight, but obviously it was a bad performance for him.

Pro Style vs Amateur Style is still styles make fights. It's to Lomachenko's credit that he still finished the fight stronger, and did well there, but I thought Salido beat him. Albeit considering it was only Loma's 2nd Pro fight, I wouldn't and don't consider it an embarrassing loss. He learned a lot from it, though I'm still not sure he'd fare much better against a similarly skilled aggressive type guy. He hasn't really fought another guy like Salido since Salido.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑25 Oct 2020, 10:34
• The Ukrainian usually enters the ring weighing around the 140lbs mark (give or take a few pounds), regardless the “official” weight class he competes in.

How do you know this ?
Is there a private weigh in behind closed doors moments before they ring walk ?
It's an estimated guess is it not ?

Evander wrote: ↑27 Oct 2020, 00:40

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑25 Oct 2020, 10:34
• The Ukrainian usually enters the ring weighing around the 140lbs mark (give or take a few pounds), regardless the “official” weight class he competes in.

How do you know this ?
Is there a private weigh in behind closed doors moments before they ring walk ?
It's an estimated guess is it not ?

He was 138lbs for both the Rodriguez and Rigondeaux bouts. And 139lbs against Sosa. He was 138½lbs against Russell.

However, the bout against the Cuban included a rehydration clause in the contract, meaning he couldn't enter the ring weighing more than 138lbs.

The rehydration weight used to be traditionally announced by HBO and Showtime, but not so much now.

These networks actually weighed these guys immediately before their bouts. I'm not speculating, Google it.

In fact, watch the ring walk for the Lomachenko-Russell bout.

What about all the other points?

• Lomachenko also campaigned at 132lbs in the amateurs, which was about a decade ago.

• He also competed in half a dozen or so bouts at 135lbs during his 2013 stint in the World Series of Boxing.

• And forgive me if I'm wrong, but the official weight for the Teofimo Lopez bout a week ago was 135lbs. A weight he’d been campaigning in for two and a half years and had been the unified champion.

Why can't you be honest? Why claim something you hadn't even bothered to fact-check?

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑24 Oct 2020, 15:23 Motor to the outside angle as a southpaw, wooh what a technical innovator, ffs. And Lopez did the one single thing you need to do against that tactic, pivot counter-clockwise and throw the right hand into the space Loma is entering, he had that uppercut waiting for Loma about 15 times, simple fkin basic footwork any coach should teach for when a southpaw gets that angle. Adjust your fkin feet rather than standing with them on the same plane once he’s got that angle, they just stood there like stunned fkin cows waiting for Loma to pepper them. The first dude he fought where someone had taught him that basic fkin tactic and Loma has 50% of his game neutralised

TLDR It was never that Loma did sh1t we’ve never seen in boxing, just that his opponents were too dumb or badly coached to make one simple adjustment with their feet.

that is true and a basic step back takes away a fancy step around.

DrDuke wrote: ↑26 Oct 2020, 05:48

sykessta wrote: ↑26 Oct 2020, 04:27 All the Floyd vs Jose Luis Castillo posts. The fight is actually somewhat of a myth manufactured by HBO. I was like most other fans and thought Floyd lost the first fight as well due to HBO commentators and unofficial scoring. Go to youtube and watch the first Mayweather-Castillo fight on Top Rank's channel. The commentators (while slightly biased for Floyd) are far more calm and it's more like just watching the fight with no commentary. After watching that in my opinion Floyd won that fight pretty clearly albeit competitive. Many of the flurries from castillo the HBO commentators were getting all riled up about were 90% misses while Floyd was landing clean on single punches or 2 punch combos. Floyd's toughest fight in my opinion was the first Maidana fight. Watched it on I think DAZN's channel instead of showtime with more neutral commentators and still had it very close.

I agree, the same stuff. In the past I had Castillo, but not long ago I've rewatched the fight in the Top Rank version and had Mayweather a bit ahead. Actually, it was just a close fight. I think, it's so popular to call it a robbery also because of the fact of Floyd's record, while this fight is just the closest in his career.

was close, but clear much like the De La Hoya fight. I'd still say the closest in Floyd's career was the first Maidana fight.

Yuzo wrote: ↑27 Oct 2020, 05:00

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑24 Oct 2020, 15:23 Motor to the outside angle as a southpaw, wooh what a technical innovator, ffs. And Lopez did the one single thing you need to do against that tactic, pivot counter-clockwise and throw the right hand into the space Loma is entering, he had that uppercut waiting for Loma about 15 times, simple fkin basic footwork any coach should teach for when a southpaw gets that angle. Adjust your fkin feet rather than standing with them on the same plane once he’s got that angle, they just stood there like stunned fkin cows waiting for Loma to pepper them. The first dude he fought where someone had taught him that basic fkin tactic and Loma has 50% of his game neutralised

TLDR It was never that Loma did sh1t we’ve never seen in boxing, just that his opponents were too dumb or badly coached to make one simple adjustment with their feet.

that is true and a basic step back takes away a fancy step around.

Yuzo! welcome back brotha

and true to form, you just made a simple clip to show what I was trying to say, but much clearer

I feel like I have the 'Yuzo mark of approval' on my post though

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑27 Oct 2020, 05:47

Yuzo wrote: ↑27 Oct 2020, 05:00

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑24 Oct 2020, 15:23 Motor to the outside angle as a southpaw, wooh what a technical innovator, ffs. And Lopez did the one single thing you need to do against that tactic, pivot counter-clockwise and throw the right hand into the space Loma is entering, he had that uppercut waiting for Loma about 15 times, simple fkin basic footwork any coach should teach for when a southpaw gets that angle. Adjust your fkin feet rather than standing with them on the same plane once he’s got that angle, they just stood there like stunned fkin cows waiting for Loma to pepper them. The first dude he fought where someone had taught him that basic fkin tactic and Loma has 50% of his game neutralised

TLDR It was never that Loma did sh1t we’ve never seen in boxing, just that his opponents were too dumb or badly coached to make one simple adjustment with their feet.

that is true and a basic step back takes away a fancy step around.

Yuzo! welcome back brotha

and true to form, you just made a simple clip to show what I was trying to say, but much clearer

I feel like I have the 'Yuzo mark of approval' on my post though

His gif breakdowns are some of the best coaching tools out there I think. Quick visual examples that you can see over and over and over if you want to if you're working on these skills.

sykessta wrote: ↑27 Oct 2020, 05:09

DrDuke wrote: ↑26 Oct 2020, 05:48

sykessta wrote: ↑26 Oct 2020, 04:27 All the Floyd vs Jose Luis Castillo posts. The fight is actually somewhat of a myth manufactured by HBO. I was like most other fans and thought Floyd lost the first fight as well due to HBO commentators and unofficial scoring. Go to youtube and watch the first Mayweather-Castillo fight on Top Rank's channel. The commentators (while slightly biased for Floyd) are far more calm and it's more like just watching the fight with no commentary. After watching that in my opinion Floyd won that fight pretty clearly albeit competitive. Many of the flurries from castillo the HBO commentators were getting all riled up about were 90% misses while Floyd was landing clean on single punches or 2 punch combos. Floyd's toughest fight in my opinion was the first Maidana fight. Watched it on I think DAZN's channel instead of showtime with more neutral commentators and still had it very close.

I agree, the same stuff. In the past I had Castillo, but not long ago I've rewatched the fight in the Top Rank version and had Mayweather a bit ahead. Actually, it was just a close fight. I think, it's so popular to call it a robbery also because of the fact of Floyd's record, while this fight is just the closest in his career.

was close, but clear much like the De La Hoya fight. I'd still say the closest in Floyd's career was the first Maidana fight.

Floyd vs De La Hoya was indeed clear. For Floyd.

Castillo vs Floyd was clear for Castillo. Anybody that sees that as anything but doesn't know what they're looking at or how to properly score a Boxing match.

Maidana vs Floyd was razor thin. I had it for Maidana, but it's not one to argue either way. Couldn't be wider than 7 rounds to 5 either way though.

DrDuke wrote: ↑26 Oct 2020, 05:48

sykessta wrote: ↑26 Oct 2020, 04:27 All the Floyd vs Jose Luis Castillo posts. The fight is actually somewhat of a myth manufactured by HBO. I was like most other fans and thought Floyd lost the first fight as well due to HBO commentators and unofficial scoring. Go to youtube and watch the first Mayweather-Castillo fight on Top Rank's channel. The commentators (while slightly biased for Floyd) are far more calm and it's more like just watching the fight with no commentary. After watching that in my opinion Floyd won that fight pretty clearly albeit competitive. Many of the flurries from castillo the HBO commentators were getting all riled up about were 90% misses while Floyd was landing clean on single punches or 2 punch combos. Floyd's toughest fight in my opinion was the first Maidana fight. Watched it on I think DAZN's channel instead of showtime with more neutral commentators and still had it very close.

I agree, the same stuff. In the past I had Castillo, but not long ago I've rewatched the fight in the Top Rank version and had Mayweather a bit ahead. Actually, it was just a close fight. I think, it's so popular to call it a robbery also because of the fact of Floyd's record, while this fight is just the closest in his career.

It is a competitive fight. It's not a debatable outcome. 8 rounds to 4 or 7 rounds to 5 for Castilo. If you see it for Floyd. You're wrong. That's all there is to it.

9 rounds to 3 for Castillo is more justifiable a score than any score having Mayweather winning that fight.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑27 Oct 2020, 05:59 It is a competitive fight. It's not a debatable outcome. 8 rounds to 4 or 7 rounds to 5 for Castilo. If you see it for Floyd. You're wrong. That's all there is to it.

9 rounds to 3 for Castillo is more justifiable a score than any score having Mayweather winning that fight.

I didn't save the scores, when I watched the fight in the past and gave it to Castillo, but I did that last time. Then I had 7-5 for Mayweather. Mayweather won the first five. Those were pretty clear rounds for him, cause early in the fight it was a quite regular Mayweather. He slowed down in the second half of the fight, began to take more punches, but I won't call it a blowing of ALL second half of the bout, I gave Mayweather the 8th and 10th.

Yuzo wrote: ↑27 Oct 2020, 05:00

Counter-puncher wrote: ↑24 Oct 2020, 15:23 Motor to the outside angle as a southpaw, wooh what a technical innovator, ffs. And Lopez did the one single thing you need to do against that tactic, pivot counter-clockwise and throw the right hand into the space Loma is entering, he had that uppercut waiting for Loma about 15 times, simple fkin basic footwork any coach should teach for when a southpaw gets that angle. Adjust your fkin feet rather than standing with them on the same plane once he’s got that angle, they just stood there like stunned fkin cows waiting for Loma to pepper them. The first dude he fought where someone had taught him that basic fkin tactic and Loma has 50% of his game neutralised

TLDR It was never that Loma did sh1t we’ve never seen in boxing, just that his opponents were too dumb or badly coached to make one simple adjustment with their feet.

that is true and a basic step back takes away a fancy step around.

Lopez is a very smart and talented fighter. He's the real deal. It's very hard to that against a fighter like Loma. It looks simple and basic but it's hard to think it and timing it.