Page 2 of 2

Re: How to make boxing better?

Posted: 26 Oct 2020, 03:50
by DrDuke
H8Usernames wrote: 25 Oct 2020, 20:11
DrDuke wrote: 25 Oct 2020, 10:45
H8Usernames wrote: 25 Oct 2020, 10:05

Again. How is this supposed to be achieved? The ranking orgs wont want it. The boxers wont want it and the promoters wont want it.

The answer is laws and politics and we ofcourse all know that there is no corruption in politics so boxing would then just become squeaky clean right? (Sarcasm)
And who told, that it could be achieved? Eveything will only get worse.
So we agree that your idea is unrealistic. Good. Do you have any realistic ideas?
You think there are some? :lol:

Re: How to make boxing better?

Posted: 26 Oct 2020, 07:07
by H8Usernames
DrDuke wrote: 26 Oct 2020, 03:50
H8Usernames wrote: 25 Oct 2020, 20:11
DrDuke wrote: 25 Oct 2020, 10:45

And who told, that it could be achieved? Eveything will only get worse.
So we agree that your idea is unrealistic. Good. Do you have any realistic ideas?
You think there are some? :lol:
Smaller gloves for chosen fights is a good one. Less cushioning and closer to the barbaric brutal nature of the affair.

Fights without decisions like no decision bouts. Those could have a positive impact on boxing in general giving promoters a better chance to build up their prospects.

Lets look at Canelo Alvarez vs GGG for example. So CA VS GGG 1 happened and it was ruled a draw, most know that GGG won and don't regard CA as unbeaten, some CA fans regard CA as unbeaten and think that he can destroy any fighter, their records changed but we all know that it's bs.

What would have happened if it was a no decision bout? So the majority of boxing fans would still know that GGG won, some would still regard CA as el campeon and both would have an added notch to their ND or EX count. What's the difference?

The difference would be that there would be no corruption involved. The three tax collectors at ringsinde wouldn't have gotten paid for sitting there by the state and no cash under the table and they wouldn't have had to waste their time either on the affair. CA would however not have had the luxury of rubbing their decision in our faces and claiming that he won something but after the fight perhaps ODLH could have stepped up to the mic and spoken about how phenomenal CA's performance was how decivsivly he won that fight,

The difference would have been that 3 unneccessary employees would have been cut out and no corruption would have taken place. After the fight CA would have been able to say how no rematch was needed since he beat GGG so decisivly and GGG would have been able to say that he whooped CA's ass just like he can state right now.

Re: How to make boxing better?

Posted: 26 Oct 2020, 07:17
by H8Usernames
gilgamesh wrote: 25 Oct 2020, 20:23 Your ideas were terrible. Exhibition bouts are pointless. Mine would benefit Boxing greatly. Whether or not anybody ever goes along with them of course isn't up to me, but if my ideas were implemented Boxing would be better for it. In short order.

The biggest thing is to give fans the fights they want without having to wait so goddamn long that they lose interest or the fighters aren't as good as they were when the fight was first mentioned.
My ideas are good, market solutions that reduce corruption without fail and don't increase corruption like other suggestions like getting politicians and laws would.

Your suggestions are like when you speak to a child. You ask the child, "How can we make the world a better place" and the child replies, we need to eliminate hunger, poverty, diseases and conflict. On first look these look like good suggestions but when you look closer they're horrible and would lead to mankind's extinction and then of course the attempted implementation and execution of those ideas would also have horrible consequences.

Boxing is a product, more regulations and laws and involvement of politicians isn't going to make it better. But this calling for there to be only 1 championship and calling for the firing of the officials after 3 strikes is only asking for more involvement of legislative bodies and government organizations.

Re: How to make boxing better?

Posted: 26 Oct 2020, 07:32
by Counter-puncher
H8Usernames wrote: 26 Oct 2020, 07:17

My ideas are good

Re: How to make boxing better?

Posted: 26 Oct 2020, 08:43
by gilgamesh
H8Usernames wrote: 26 Oct 2020, 07:17
gilgamesh wrote: 25 Oct 2020, 20:23 Your ideas were terrible. Exhibition bouts are pointless. Mine would benefit Boxing greatly. Whether or not anybody ever goes along with them of course isn't up to me, but if my ideas were implemented Boxing would be better for it. In short order.

The biggest thing is to give fans the fights they want without having to wait so goddamn long that they lose interest or the fighters aren't as good as they were when the fight was first mentioned.
My ideas are good, market solutions that reduce corruption without fail and don't increase corruption like other suggestions like getting politicians and laws would.

Your suggestions are like when you speak to a child. You ask the child, "How can we make the world a better place" and the child replies, we need to eliminate hunger, poverty, diseases and conflict. On first look these look like good suggestions but when you look closer they're horrible and would lead to mankind's extinction and then of course the attempted implementation and execution of those ideas would also have horrible consequences.

Boxing is a product, more regulations and laws and involvement of politicians isn't going to make it better. But this calling for there to be only 1 championship and calling for the firing of the officials after 3 strikes is only asking for more involvement of legislative bodies and government organizations.
I never once said anything about Politicians. I wouldn't expect Politicians to concern themselves with sports. Any sport.

The MLB, NBA, NFL, NHL are not Political organizations. Boxing needs a setup something like that. Just some organization. It'll never happen of course, but it'd be nice.

Re: How to make boxing better?

Posted: 26 Oct 2020, 09:47
by Tony1244
Regarding the OP, I've seen fighters with records of 20-10 beat the undefeated 22-0 upstart many times.

Boxing needs to get rid of all Jr and Sr divisions, I agree with that. Contenders should fight contenders more often. The UK does a far better job of that than the US. A Dubois-Joyce fight wouldn't happen in the US without a word title if they were both American.

Re: How to make boxing better?

Posted: 26 Oct 2020, 10:10
by littlepug
H8Usernames wrote: 25 Oct 2020, 20:09
littlepug wrote: 25 Oct 2020, 10:30
H8Usernames wrote: 25 Oct 2020, 10:15

That change is needed to weed out the quirks of boxing and that change is needed to make it more interesting.

Here are problems solved by these changes that I mentioned.

1. The 3 judges at ringside often become unneccessary.

2. A stinker can be stopped.

3. An otherwise boring affair between two subpar fighters can be made interesting using smaller gloves.

4. Less corruption.
I personally don’t think it needs making more interesting, there’s great fights on in every corner of the globe which is all I care about, the quirks as you put it have been part of the sport since day 1. Don’t understand why you think the judges are unnecessary, stinkers are gonna happen, smaller gloves are completely unnecessary. Corruption will find its way in everywhere, it’s not that big a problem. Just enjoy the sport dude, I’ve seen plenty of good fights this year so can’t complain.
Isn't that a "it cant be improved" opinion? Bit negative aint it.
There’s nothing realistic that can happen, 1 belt per division and fewer divisions just isn’t gonna happen, less PPV would be nice but again won’t happen, grassroots stuff and foreign fights on free tv would be nice but that’s for the diehards so doubtful, like I said there’s plenty to enjoy for boxing fans so just enjoy it.

Re: How to make boxing better?

Posted: 26 Oct 2020, 10:14
by gilgamesh
Tony1244 wrote: 26 Oct 2020, 09:47 Regarding the OP, I've seen fighters with records of 20-10 beat the undefeated 22-0 upstart many times.

Boxing needs to get rid of all Jr and Sr divisions, I agree with that. Contenders should fight contenders more often. The UK does a far better job of that than the US. A Dubois-Joyce fight wouldn't happen in the US without a word title if they were both American.
Not sure if it would happen in the U.K. either if not for their current situation.

The 2 guys at the very top are both U.K. Heavyweights.

Then you got Whyte, Dubois and Joyce.

They got Heavyweights to burn at the moment in the U.K.

That's seldom ever been the case in U.K. Heavyweight Boxing history, but it's the case now.

Re: How to make boxing better?

Posted: 26 Oct 2020, 12:44
by Thomastearns
Probably a good idea to not get too idealistic and instead stay practical.

So what can be done?

If we look at the current situation professional boxing on the surface is a about winning world championship belts.

These belts are owned by the sanctioning bodies who have ridiculously continued to offer an increasingly greater number of them in an attempt to reap a greater amount of sanctioning fees.

However the fights for these belts are arranged by various promoters who are not particularly interested in these belts, only amount of revenue the fights amass.

This inevitably means they have to work with various media outlets such as Sky Sports. These media outlets can then decide whether they want to make the fights available on a pay per view basis to extract the maximum amount of money out of the most enthusiastic diehard fans.

The fights themselves are generally held where the various parties believe they will generate the most money. This could be anywhere in the world but no doubt the place that consistently generates the highest revenues is Las Vegas, and this falls under the jurisdiction of Nevada Athletic Commission headed by executive director Bob Bennett.

Other locations will have their own commissions. In the UK it's the British Boxing Board of Control.

So where does all this leave the boxers and the fans?

In a rather difficult place if they want to retain any degree of independence. Neither has much control or say over what fights can be made, or even if they will ever be made.

Furthermore the system is highly susceptible to corruption as its main motivation is profit over fairness, safety or the long term well being of the boxers. This has led many to suspect that a tacit form of collusion, a cartel if you like, exists whereby some more marketable boxers (cash cows) are given far too many advantages and privileges over their unfortunate opponents who may be better boxers but just happen to be less marketable.

It's a dirty business no doubt, but perhaps its dirtiest secret is that it's the promoters who pay for judges.

Excellent article by Paul Magno here.

http://theboxingtribune.com/2017/01/18/ ... .%E2%80%9D

So given this disgraceful state of affairs can anything be done?

It doesn't look like it.

It would take an act of government to take away control from the existing self regulating (ie thick as thieves) cartel of promoters, sanctioning bodies, boxing commissions, and media outlets.

Only then, maybe, a governing body such those that run other sports such as football (FIFA), tennis (ITF), formula 1 (FIA), golf (IGF), cricket (ICC), olympics (IOC), chess (FIDE) etc could be set up.

Some of those sports with single governing bodies are not without issues, but they do have a central headquarters which can be directly accountable to government scrutiny.
The Olympic Games and the football world cup have had numerous issues with the awarding of these events.

Alas in boxing as things stand, a rather shadowy collective association runs professional boxing. As long it continues to do so, we cannot expect any change.

Re: How to make boxing better?

Posted: 26 Oct 2020, 13:17
by cormack
generally I am happy the way it is !

yes I would like to see more fights especially middleweight thru to HW , but real deal fights for a title or even a domestic showdown .

But not nonsense exhibition shit like mayweather vs the jap guy .

Re: How to make boxing better?

Posted: 26 Oct 2020, 16:24
by gregregegg
Oh and i think olympics rather than an amature comp, or a less than x pro fights comp should be an under 25s comp. That way everyone gets to go pro prime if they want. also feel amatures is unfair, Like i bet Aj 2012 didnt have to go lay brick, bet he ate amazingly, bet he had unreal gym facilitys... if your in a country that dosent have a good am program and you have to work 40 hour weeks, what chance do you have..

Re: How to make boxing better?

Posted: 30 Oct 2020, 18:27
by brilo33
judges has ruined a lot of matches with unfair cards, look i get it we all score boxing different , but then theres different ,something has to be done about the scoring,

well i guess number 1 is we want to see the best fight the best i mean there is one only champion and most the time we know who he is, get it on i hate this no zero on the record , whos cares you learn from your defeats , everyone who has had fights have come unstuck sooner or later.

i think more of the super series torments , or even cup competitions

Re: How to make boxing better?

Posted: 31 Oct 2020, 01:22
by gilgamesh
stevec@france wrote: 26 Oct 2020, 13:17 generally I am happy the way it is !

yes I would like to see more fights especially middleweight thru to HW , but real deal fights for a title or even a domestic showdown .

But not nonsense exhibition poo like mayweather vs the jap guy .
The Mayweather vs Tenshin Exhibition I guarantee you was 100% better than the Roy Jones vs Mike Tyson exhibition will be.

Those 2 apparently fought, and it was only deemed an Exhibition due to the size differential.

Roy Jones and Mike Tyson will have a friendly spar, and people will be pissed that they wasted their time and money on it.

In general though I agree Exhibition bouts are pointless usually. The circumstances have to be right to make them meaningful.

If the people try to hurt one another, and it's deemed an Exhibition because it can't be sanctioned for whatever reason otherwise. I'm all for it.

If they're wearing headgear, and sparring all nice and friendly like. I wouldn't be interested no matter who was involved.

Re: How to make boxing better?

Posted: 31 Oct 2020, 02:07
by lazboy
Tenshin was one of Mayweather’s toughest opponents and was out boxing Mayweather until he got hit by a lucky punch. Mayweather has always relied on his one punch power and it bailed him out yet again. Bring on the rematch,