BoxRec

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑27 Oct 2020, 17:36

gilgamesh wrote: ↑27 Oct 2020, 17:22

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑27 Oct 2020, 17:15 Marciano, like most fighters, is overrated by some and underrated by others. If you see him top 50 p4p all time...Over. if you see someone saying he would be a light heavy and too small for a tub of goo like areola or kownacki...Under.

Tua and Mercer I'd tab him to outpoint, but he isn't knocking those guys cold. Evander with his short, concise counter and lead hooks would floor tua.

Hell he was at least a Cruiserweight wasn't he?

Didn't he usually weigh between 180 and 190?

He likely could've made Light Heavyweight then if he'd been so inclined, but he wanted the money of fighting the bigger guys. If that's his mentality. He might still do it even in the modern era.

Expressing my outrage about the WBC's new decision, I've seen people say there's no minimal limit, so theoretically a guy could weigh 200 and fight the big boys.

And yet, I don't recall a guy ever being 149 or 150 and fighting a Middleweight.

When Roy Jones weighed 193 for Ruiz, the Cruiserweight division hadn't yet been changed to 200 pounds.

I'm getting off topic here though. Your opinion of whether or not he's over or underrated seems pretty well accurate.

He was a piece of steel. Surely he could juice up over 200 now. Rocky had short dimensions, but you hear the same poo about Louis. Armstrong had several welter title defenses when he weighed below lightweight.

He was a career high 142 challenging Garcia for the middle belt.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑27 Oct 2020, 17:38

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑27 Oct 2020, 17:36

gilgamesh wrote: ↑27 Oct 2020, 17:22

Hell he was at least a Cruiserweight wasn't he?

Didn't he usually weigh between 180 and 190?

He likely could've made Light Heavyweight then if he'd been so inclined, but he wanted the money of fighting the bigger guys. If that's his mentality. He might still do it even in the modern era.

Expressing my outrage about the WBC's new decision, I've seen people say there's no minimal limit, so theoretically a guy could weigh 200 and fight the big boys.

And yet, I don't recall a guy ever being 149 or 150 and fighting a Middleweight.

When Roy Jones weighed 193 for Ruiz, the Cruiserweight division hadn't yet been changed to 200 pounds.

I'm getting off topic here though. Your opinion of whether or not he's over or underrated seems pretty well accurate.

He was a piece of steel. Surely he could juice up over 200 now. Rocky had short dimensions, but you hear the same poo about Louis. Armstrong had several welter title defenses when he weighed below lightweight.

He was a career high 142 challenging Garcia for the middle belt.

Has anything of the sort happened in the last 60 years?

What you cite is a damn good example of why Armstrong is so revered by Boxing historians as one of the all time greatest.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑27 Oct 2020, 17:56 Weigh out the window

I see what you did there.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑27 Oct 2020, 17:22

And yet, I don't recall a guy ever being 149 or 150 and fighting a Middleweight.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑27 Oct 2020, 18:44

gilgamesh wrote: ↑27 Oct 2020, 17:56 Weigh out the window

I see what you did there.

'smart phone' pun not intended!

mayorcurley wrote: ↑27 Oct 2020, 19:43

gilgamesh wrote: ↑27 Oct 2020, 17:22

And yet, I don't recall a guy ever being 149 or 150 and fighting a Middleweight.

Didn't Mickey Walker fight Max Schmeling?

Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑27 Oct 2020, 20:56 Walker moved up and fought a lot of light heavyweights and heavyweights. He weighed in the 170s in many fights. He beat several guys who weighed over 200. He was in over his head against Schmeling, but overall had some good success against heavyweights.

DrDuke wrote: ↑27 Oct 2020, 16:40

gilgamesh wrote: ↑27 Oct 2020, 16:32

DrDuke wrote: ↑27 Oct 2020, 13:50
Tua was KOed in the amateurs by Felix Savon hard. Rahman also dropped him right after the final bell in their rematch.

Mercer wasn't KOed until the later stages of his career.

These two had granite chins, but weren't as freakish as McCall or Chuvalo. Clean Marciano's punch could KO both Mercer and Tua. Marciano was a very big puncher.

I'd pick Rocky to handle both Mercer and Tua.

I got a chuckle at him going down in the Rahman rematch because Rahman pointed at him when he went down, but it was just a smidge too late. He would've got the decision had that happened a second earlier.

Was more of a balance thing though than him being hurt. He was aggressively on the front foot attacking, and Rahman hit him with a shot that knocked him off balance. I remember as soon as he hit the mat he stood up immediately.

I think Marciano could KO Tua, if Tua just stood there with his arms down letting him tee off on him maybe. I don't see it otherwise though.

With Mercer it's a little more likely to happen, but I wouldn't pick Marciano by KO in either case. Him winning by Decision though like I say, I can easily imagine.

Well, after Savon countered Tua and sent him down, Tua wasn't out cold, but he was hurt and wobbled. That fight could be stopped even in the pros. I can see Marciano and Tua trading right hands and Tua eating the lethal one.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑27 Oct 2020, 17:15 if you see someone saying he would be a light heavy and too small for a tub of goo like areola or kownacki...Under.

Bujia wrote: ↑27 Oct 2020, 21:18

DrDuke wrote: ↑27 Oct 2020, 16:40

gilgamesh wrote: ↑27 Oct 2020, 16:32

I got a chuckle at him going down in the Rahman rematch because Rahman pointed at him when he went down, but it was just a smidge too late. He would've got the decision had that happened a second earlier.

Was more of a balance thing though than him being hurt. He was aggressively on the front foot attacking, and Rahman hit him with a shot that knocked him off balance. I remember as soon as he hit the mat he stood up immediately.

I think Marciano could KO Tua, if Tua just stood there with his arms down letting him tee off on him maybe. I don't see it otherwise though.

With Mercer it's a little more likely to happen, but I wouldn't pick Marciano by KO in either case. Him winning by Decision though like I say, I can easily imagine.

Well, after Savon countered Tua and sent him down, Tua wasn't out cold, but he was hurt and wobbled. That fight could be stopped even in the pros. I can see Marciano and Tua trading right hands and Tua eating the lethal one.

That was a fight between a grown man and a teenage boy. It is completely irrelevant.

Bujia wrote: ↑27 Oct 2020, 21:18

DrDuke wrote: ↑27 Oct 2020, 16:40

gilgamesh wrote: ↑27 Oct 2020, 16:32

I got a chuckle at him going down in the Rahman rematch because Rahman pointed at him when he went down, but it was just a smidge too late. He would've got the decision had that happened a second earlier.

Was more of a balance thing though than him being hurt. He was aggressively on the front foot attacking, and Rahman hit him with a shot that knocked him off balance. I remember as soon as he hit the mat he stood up immediately.

I think Marciano could KO Tua, if Tua just stood there with his arms down letting him tee off on him maybe. I don't see it otherwise though.

With Mercer it's a little more likely to happen, but I wouldn't pick Marciano by KO in either case. Him winning by Decision though like I say, I can easily imagine.

Well, after Savon countered Tua and sent him down, Tua wasn't out cold, but he was hurt and wobbled. That fight could be stopped even in the pros. I can see Marciano and Tua trading right hands and Tua eating the lethal one.

That was a fight between a grown man and a teenage boy. It is completely irrelevant.

DrDuke wrote: ↑27 Oct 2020, 15:53

Onamastus wrote: ↑27 Oct 2020, 14:00

mayorcurley wrote: ↑27 Oct 2020, 13:55

I don't think Tua or Mercer were ever knocked down in their careers.

They were both knocked down, but only once they were too old to be boxing. Mercer against Klitschko and Briggs, Tua against Barrett

Mercer was also down against Holyfield. However, that looked a bit weird, with delayed reaction.

DrDuke wrote: ↑27 Oct 2020, 17:27

gilgamesh wrote: ↑27 Oct 2020, 17:22

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑27 Oct 2020, 17:15 Marciano, like most fighters, is overrated by some and underrated by others. If you see him top 50 p4p all time...Over. if you see someone saying he would be a light heavy and too small for a tub of goo like areola or kownacki...Under.

Tua and Mercer I'd tab him to outpoint, but he isn't knocking those guys cold. Evander with his short, concise counter and lead hooks would floor tua.

Hell he was at least a Cruiserweight wasn't he?

Didn't he usually weigh between 180 and 190?

He likely could've made Light Heavyweight then if he'd been so inclined, but he wanted the money of fighting the bigger guys. If that's his mentality. He might still do it even in the modern era.

Expressing my outrage about the WBC's new decision, I've seen people say there's no minimal limit, so theoretically a guy could weigh 200 and fight the big boys.

And yet, I don't recall a guy ever being 149 or 150 and fighting a Middleweight.

When Roy Jones weighed 193 for Ruiz, the Cruiserweight division hadn't yet been changed to 200 pounds.

I'm getting off topic here though. Your opinion of whether or not he's over or underrated seems pretty well accurate.

Marciano was around 185 most often. I think, in whatever era he would have been, he would make HW limit. I think, that's just what he wanted.

bwu wrote: ↑29 Oct 2020, 18:02 A few observations: As I noted near the beginning of this thread, I think Tua and Mercer were fine boxers. A late friend of mine knew Mercer casually and said he was a great person, too. I respect the arguments in opposition, but I stand by my claim. Marciano wins by knockout.

Here's the thing. It wouldn't be easy. Those guys would probably lead most of the way. The problem for them, as with most fighters against Marciano, is his ability to absorb punishment. He could take an enormous beating and not get discouraged.

As for Mickey Walker at heavyweight, Schmeling certainly showed him up. Before that, Walker's draw with Jack Sharkey and wins over Paulino Uzcudun and King Levinsky were great examples of a David over the Goliaths.

bwu wrote: ↑29 Oct 2020, 18:02 A few observations: As I noted near the beginning of this thread, I think Tua and Mercer were fine boxers. A late friend of mine knew Mercer casually and said he was a great person, too. I respect the arguments in opposition, but I stand by my claim. Marciano wins by knockout.

Here's the thing. It wouldn't be easy. Those guys would probably lead most of the way. The problem for them, as with most fighters against Marciano, is his ability to absorb punishment. He could take an enormous beating and not get discouraged.

As for Mickey Walker at heavyweight, Schmeling certainly showed him up. Before that, Walker's draw with Jack Sharkey and wins over Paulino Uzcudun and King Levinsky were great examples of a David over the Goliaths.

DrDuke wrote: ↑30 Oct 2020, 04:01

bwu wrote: ↑29 Oct 2020, 18:02 A few observations: As I noted near the beginning of this thread, I think Tua and Mercer were fine boxers. A late friend of mine knew Mercer casually and said he was a great person, too. I respect the arguments in opposition, but I stand by my claim. Marciano wins by knockout.

Here's the thing. It wouldn't be easy. Those guys would probably lead most of the way. The problem for them, as with most fighters against Marciano, is his ability to absorb punishment. He could take an enormous beating and not get discouraged.

As for Mickey Walker at heavyweight, Schmeling certainly showed him up. Before that, Walker's draw with Jack Sharkey and wins over Paulino Uzcudun and King Levinsky were great examples of a David over the Goliaths.

It's a good point. A lot of fighters would have achieved much less, if they weren't durable and if their chins weren't that good. Ali and Holmes are ones of the most descriptive examples, as well as Marciano. Mercer and Tua actually are examples of it too. They weren't that great, like Ali, Holmes or Marciano, but they were top fighters for quite a while and to a big extent because of their toughness, durability and chin.

cfang wrote: ↑30 Oct 2020, 18:12 He kinda is and isn't. People overate him due to his legendary image and the 49-0. If ali had retired in 68 hed be like 29-0 with more defences and better opponents.