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Re: No Mas: 40 Years Later, What Really Happened?
Posted: 29 Nov 2020, 20:53
by bwu
It's doubtful that anything we write here will sway anyone's opinion about this oft-discussed topic. Suffice it to say that they were two of the greatest boxers of all time. Their first fight was a masterpiece. Personally, I tend to think that Duran ranks higher at lightweight than Leonard does at welterweight and I believe those were the divisions in which they were in their respective primes.
However, between the two of them, I can't help but conclude that Leonard was the superior fighter. The only fight Duran won was also the closest. Leonard got a TKO in the second match and dominated the third.
While this thread is about the second fight, it seems to me that their third bout is the most telling. For about nine years, all we heard was how much Duran wanted that fight and how he was determined to avenge himself. I believed such talk and I was sure he would beat Sugar Ray in that final match. That turned out to be a load of crap. Duran let himself balloon up after the Barkley win and he was dominated by Leonard.
As I said in an earlier post, I think there was a very accurate description of what really happened. It was shocking at the time and it upset a lot of people. But it isn't a mystery.
Re: No Mas: 40 Years Later, What Really Happened?
Posted: 29 Nov 2020, 22:02
by Ambling Alp II
elmersalsa wrote: ↑29 Nov 2020, 14:19
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑29 Nov 2020, 12:35
Yep. That is pretty much what happened. Better fighter won. Quitting like that instead of at least trying will always tarnish his legacy.
superb performance by Leonard which almost always gets overlooked.
I don't think he was the better fighter. He caught a Duran in a bad night, which was a beautifully created strategy.
His strategy was to catch Duran in a "bad night"? That doesn't even make sense.
Re: No Mas: 40 Years Later, What Really Happened?
Posted: 29 Nov 2020, 22:08
by Duran1970
bwu wrote: ↑29 Nov 2020, 20:53
It's doubtful that anything we write here will sway anyone's opinion about this oft-discussed topic. Suffice it to say that they were two of the greatest boxers of all time. Their first fight was a masterpiece. Personally, I tend to think that Duran ranks higher at lightweight than Leonard does at welterweight and I believe those were the divisions in which they were in their respective primes.
However, between the two of them, I can't help but conclude that Leonard was the superior fighter. The only fight Duran won was also the closest. Leonard got a TKO in the second match and dominated the third.
While this thread is about the second fight, it seems to me that their third bout is the most telling. For about nine years, all we heard was how much Duran wanted that fight and how he was determined to avenge himself. I believed such talk and I was sure he would beat Sugar Ray in that final match. That turned out to be a load of crap. Duran let himself balloon up after the Barkley win and he was dominated by Leonard.
As I said in an earlier post, I think there was a very accurate description of what really happened. It was shocking at the time and it upset a lot of people. But it isn't a mystery.
Their third bout the most telling??
Really?
Re: No Mas: 40 Years Later, What Really Happened?
Posted: 30 Nov 2020, 07:33
by bwu
You betcha. Think it through.
Duran had the chance to undo the biggest mistake of his career. Leonard was on the slide, too. Instead of rising to the occasion, Duran pulled the same nonsense in between fights that cost him in the past.
Roberto looked better and won more rounds in the second fight than he did in the third. But it wasn’t like he was shot. He had plenty of good efforts in the nineties.
As the young people say these days, Leonard was living in his head, rent free.
Re: No Mas: 40 Years Later, What Really Happened?
Posted: 30 Nov 2020, 08:26
by Tuan_Jim
His non effort in the third fight has always been a mystery. In some ways it was worse than the second fight.
Re: No Mas: 40 Years Later, What Really Happened?
Posted: 30 Nov 2020, 09:12
by wouter
Tuan_Jim wrote: ↑30 Nov 2020, 08:26
His non effort in the third fight has always been a mystery. In some ways it was worse than the second fight.
Perhaps Vlad can arrange an interview and ask him.
Re: No Mas: 40 Years Later, What Really Happened?
Posted: 30 Nov 2020, 10:37
by Tuan_Jim
wouter wrote: ↑30 Nov 2020, 09:12
Tuan_Jim wrote: ↑30 Nov 2020, 08:26
His non effort in the third fight has always been a mystery. In some ways it was worse than the second fight.
Perhaps Vlad can arrange an interview and ask him.
'You fought Sugar Ray a third time........'
Yes?
.............
'Okay. Next you fight Pat Lawlor. Were you knocked out or stopped?'
Re: No Mas: 40 Years Later, What Really Happened?
Posted: 30 Nov 2020, 20:53
by Duran1970
Lol...the third fight is the least relevant of the three..just a cash grab from two finished fighters..
Re: No Mas: 40 Years Later, What Really Happened?
Posted: 01 Dec 2020, 04:44
by DrDuke
The 3rd fight was just unnecessary in terms of legacy. Leonard was way past prime, Duran was completely shot. They both should have retired forever after their previous fights.
Re: No Mas: 40 Years Later, What Really Happened?
Posted: 01 Dec 2020, 12:25
by Onetimeonly
DrDuke wrote: ↑01 Dec 2020, 04:44
The 3rd fight was just unnecessary in terms of legacy. Leonard was way past prime, Duran was completely shot. They both should have retired forever after their previous fights.
Obviously it was terrible and both beyond their primes but Duran was not shot.
Re: No Mas: 40 Years Later, What Really Happened?
Posted: 01 Dec 2020, 13:20
by Tuan_Jim
I thought Duran coming off the high of beating Barkley would at least attempt to summon up a special performance for Leonard, especially since he had waited nine years to get him back in the ring. Fight III seems more inexplicable to me than II.
Re: No Mas: 40 Years Later, What Really Happened?
Posted: 01 Dec 2020, 15:23
by Onetimeonly
Tuan_Jim wrote: ↑01 Dec 2020, 13:20
I thought Duran coming off the high of beating Barkley would at least attempt to summon up a special performance for Leonard, especially since he had waited nine years to get him back in the ring. Fight III seems more inexplicable to me than II.
The cold temperatures and huge ring are a nice excuse, and at that age Duran couldn't chase him down, but his effort was much worse than no mas.
Re: No Mas: 40 Years Later, What Really Happened?
Posted: 01 Dec 2020, 20:01
by elmersalsa
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑29 Nov 2020, 22:02
elmersalsa wrote: ↑29 Nov 2020, 14:19
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑29 Nov 2020, 12:35
Yep. That is pretty much what happened. Better fighter won. Quitting like that instead of at least trying will always tarnish his legacy.
superb performance by Leonard which almost always gets overlooked.
I don't think he was the better fighter. He caught a Duran in a bad night, which was a beautifully created strategy.
His strategy was to catch Duran in a "bad night"? That doesn't even make sense.
And do you believe that Duran was at his best of shape like in Montreal?
Re: No Mas: 40 Years Later, What Really Happened?
Posted: 01 Dec 2020, 20:33
by Ambling Alp II
No, obviously Leonard's strategy of catching Duran on a bad night worked. Sheer brilliance! Why don't other fighters do the same thing? It seems so full-proof.
Obviously Duran spent five months "partying", gained 50 pounds, then lost it all back, and somehow had no idea that he was supposed to fight that night. We certainly can't count this fight.
Re: No Mas: 40 Years Later, What Really Happened?
Posted: 01 Dec 2020, 20:37
by Onetimeonly
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑01 Dec 2020, 20:33
No, obviously Leonard's strategy of catching Duran on a bad night worked. Sheer brilliance! Why don't other fighters do the same thing? It seems so full-proof.
Obviously Duran spent five months "partying", gained 50 pounds, then lost it all back, and somehow had no idea that he was supposed to fight that night. We certainly can't count this fight.
You'll have to forgive Elmer, Leonard was his second favorite fighter.
Re: No Mas: 40 Years Later, What Really Happened?
Posted: 01 Dec 2020, 21:49
by Ambling Alp II
Oh that's right. Even though he once said he wasn't a "real fighter".
Re: No Mas: 40 Years Later, What Really Happened?
Posted: 01 Dec 2020, 22:04
by Onetimeonly
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑01 Dec 2020, 21:49
Oh that's right. Even though he once said he wasn't a "real fighter".
Duran, Leonard, Ali and delahoya is his mount Rushmore.
Re: No Mas: 40 Years Later, What Really Happened?
Posted: 02 Dec 2020, 18:50
by elmersalsa
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑01 Dec 2020, 20:33
No, obviously Leonard's strategy of catching Duran on a bad night worked. Sheer brilliance! Why don't other fighters do the same thing? It seems so full-proof.
Obviously Duran spent five months "partying", gained 50 pounds, then lost it all back, and somehow had no idea that he was supposed to fight that night. We certainly can't count this fight.
It was sheer brilliance. A brilliant strategy to get an out of shape Duran into the ring as quick as possible. The $8 million dollar bait worked in favor of Sugar Ray. He CAUGHT DURAN IN AN OFF NIGHT. And that what happened.
But, when both were in their best of shape, who won? I don't want to hear that Sugar Ray did not fight his fight crap. He got whupped! He fought his fight. End of story.
If you believe that Duran was at his very best, then I could believe he had stomach cramps. And why not?
Re: No Mas: 40 Years Later, What Really Happened?
Posted: 02 Dec 2020, 18:52
by elmersalsa
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑01 Dec 2020, 20:37
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑01 Dec 2020, 20:33
No, obviously Leonard's strategy of catching Duran on a bad night worked. Sheer brilliance! Why don't other fighters do the same thing? It seems so full-proof.
Obviously Duran spent five months "partying", gained 50 pounds, then lost it all back, and somehow had no idea that he was supposed to fight that night. We certainly can't count this fight.
You'll have to forgive Elmer, Leonard was his second favorite fighter.
And he is. Actually, my 3rd favorite behind Duran and Ali.
Re: No Mas: 40 Years Later, What Really Happened?
Posted: 02 Dec 2020, 18:55
by Onetimeonly
elmersalsa wrote: ↑02 Dec 2020, 18:52
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑01 Dec 2020, 20:37
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑01 Dec 2020, 20:33
No, obviously Leonard's strategy of catching Duran on a bad night worked. Sheer brilliance! Why don't other fighters do the same thing? It seems so full-proof.
Obviously Duran spent five months "partying", gained 50 pounds, then lost it all back, and somehow had no idea that he was supposed to fight that night. We certainly can't count this fight.
You'll have to forgive Elmer, Leonard was his second favorite fighter.
And he is. Actually, my 3rd favorite behind Duran and Ali.
And Oscar.
Re: No Mas: 40 Years Later, What Really Happened?
Posted: 03 Dec 2020, 00:17
by elmersalsa
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑02 Dec 2020, 18:55
elmersalsa wrote: ↑02 Dec 2020, 18:52
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑01 Dec 2020, 20:37
You'll have to forgive Elmer, Leonard was his second favorite fighter.
And he is. Actually, my 3rd favorite behind Duran and Ali.
And Oscar.
I never liked Oscar De La Hoya. Especially when he did not close the show against Felix "Tito" Trinidad in a fight to put himself amongst the greats of all time. He COMPLETELY FLUNKED! None of the two, (Tito nor Oscar) proved to me that they were top 100 all-time great worthy.
Re: No Mas: 40 Years Later, What Really Happened?
Posted: 03 Dec 2020, 07:58
by detamour
Tuan_Jim wrote: ↑27 Nov 2020, 18:45
Why is this result so mysterious to people? Duran hadn't prepared like he did the first time, couldn't win, was being mocked and quit in a rage.
Ray fought Durans fight in the first fight, then fought his fight and Duran surrendered simpe aint it!!
Re: No Mas: 40 Years Later, What Really Happened?
Posted: 03 Dec 2020, 11:26
by elmersalsa
detamour wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 07:58
Tuan_Jim wrote: ↑27 Nov 2020, 18:45
Why is this result so mysterious to people? Duran hadn't prepared like he did the first time, couldn't win, was being mocked and quit in a rage.
Ray fought Durans fight in the first fight, then fought his fight and Duran surrendered simpe aint it!!
Sugar Ray fought his fight. He just got whupped the first time around. He caught Duran in AN OFF NIGHT in No Mas.
Re: No Mas: 40 Years Later, What Really Happened?
Posted: 03 Dec 2020, 11:28
by DrDuke
elmersalsa wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 11:26
detamour wrote: ↑03 Dec 2020, 07:58
Tuan_Jim wrote: ↑27 Nov 2020, 18:45
Why is this result so mysterious to people? Duran hadn't prepared like he did the first time, couldn't win, was being mocked and quit in a rage.
Ray fought Durans fight in the first fight, then fought his fight and Duran surrendered simpe aint it!!
Sugar Ray fought his fight. He just got whupped the first time around. He caught Duran in AN OFF NIGHT in No Mas.
He wasn't whupped, it was highly competetive.
Re: No Mas: 40 Years Later, What Really Happened?
Posted: 03 Dec 2020, 12:50
by Ambling Alp II
elmersalsa wrote: ↑02 Dec 2020, 18:52
Onetimeonly wrote: ↑01 Dec 2020, 20:37
Ambling Alp II wrote: ↑01 Dec 2020, 20:33
No, obviously Leonard's strategy of catching Duran on a bad night worked. Sheer brilliance! Why don't other fighters do the same thing? It seems so full-proof.
Obviously Duran spent five months "partying", gained 50 pounds, then lost it all back, and somehow had no idea that he was supposed to fight that night. We certainly can't count this fight.
You'll have to forgive Elmer, Leonard was his second favorite fighter.
And he is. Actually, my 3rd favorite behind Duran and Ali.
you are so full of crap. You hate Leonard, just admit it. The only reason that you pretend that you like him is so that you act like you are being objective when comparing him to Duran. You have let it slip over the years your hatred of Leonard.