BoxRec

A respectable resume. No worse than B-Hop's Middleweight Title reign, and certainly more exciting with all of his title defenses for a long stretch coming by way of KO.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑11 Dec 2020, 10:48 A respectable resume. No worse than B-Hop's Middleweight Title reign, and certainly more exciting with all of his title defenses for a long stretch coming by way of KO.

We’ve been listening to Team Golovkin boldly proclaim for the last decade or so that GGG could “easily” compete and defeat any fighter from 154lbs to 175lbs in their natural habitat, but Hopkins actually carried out his promise.

For instance, Hopkins faced light middleweight opponents, such as John David Jackson and Oscar De La Hoya at a catch-weight, weighing 156lbs. And also competed against 175lb-ers, such as Sergey Kovalev, Antonio Tarver, Chad Dawson and Jean Pascal. He even agreed to compete in catchweight bouts against the likes of Ronald Wright and Kelly Pavlik in order to secure fights against the biggest name opponents possible.

And GGG has never once attempted to prove his boasts.

Anyway, moving on...

Bernard Hopkins competed in at least 36 major world title fights (including the Ring & Lineal titles), emerging victorious in 26 of them and won titles in two weight classes (25 at middleweight and 11 at light heavyweight).

Bernard Hopkins has defeated the likes of:
• Beibut Shumenov
• Tavoris Cloud
• Jean Pascal
• Ronald Wright
• Antonio Tarver
• Oscar De La Hoya
• William Joppy
• Carl Daniels
• Felix Trinidad
• Keith Holmes
• Antwun Echols
• Robert Allen
• Simon Brown
• Glen Johnson
• John David Jackson
• Segundo Mercado
• Roy Jones Jr.

I'm sorry, but GGG's resume is not as good as Hopkins', even if we limited the comparison to Bernard's 160lbs bouts.

I was talking about Bernard's Middleweight title reign specifically. Not his career as a whole. Yes he undoubtedly had the better overall career with many amazing accomplishments coming in his Post Middleweight Champion days.

But his actual title reign is really no better than GGG's. Or at least not by much.

And for the record I'd bet GGG could kick the respective asses of Tavoris Cloud, Jean Pascal and Beibut Shumenov next week if you made those matchups

But of course we don't rank guys off of that.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑11 Dec 2020, 11:05 I was talking about Bernard's Middleweight title reign specifically. Not his career as a whole. Yes he undoubtedly had the better overall career with many amazing accomplishments coming in his Post Middleweight Champion days.

But his actual title reign is really no better than GGG's. Or at least not by much.

And for the record I'd bet GGG could kick the respective asses of Tavoris Cloud, Jean Pascal and Beibut Shumenov next week if you made those matchups

But of course we don't rank guys off of that.

Let eo doing his bored-a$s online charade.

The truth is that B-Hop's best legit 160'lber opponent(his true mw marquee fight) was Taylor- who beat him two times.

Young Canelo could not legit beat a 34-35 y/o Golovkin. So imagine if Golovkin was 28-29 y/o , then Canelo would've not been so lucky.

squiggy wrote: ↑11 Dec 2020, 07:50

Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑10 Dec 2020, 16:42 Rd 12 could go either way. If you think that was a clear ggg round you are blind by bias or dont know how to score a round.

It's still a salient point, though: that round that could have gone either way? Guess which way it went.

Thats life - the stars get the calls in sports, the star gets the close rounds in boxing.

Bhops title reign at mw had its best moments against dlh and tito who are hall of Famers because of their work at ww

A lot of fighters he beat at mw are comparable to ggg

However head to head id say bhops mw resume is better than ggg by a little

..assuming GGG were "a native mexican or american with proper management and promotion", he would have had a DEFINITELY better/easier access to the local superstars possibly resulting in an even better resume..

not necessarily, ggg he dont have that mojo, he reminds me chun li from blood sport with his eyes, he is fighter people dont want to fight , 4 belts is that reason i think

gilgamesh wrote: ↑11 Dec 2020, 11:05I was talking about Bernard's Middleweight title reign specifically.

But his actual title reign is really no better than GGG's. Or at least not by much.

Hopkins won his WBA, WBC & WBO titles by actually beating the existing titleholders inside the ring (Keith Holmes, Felix Trinidad and Oscar De La Hoya).

The only belt GGG has ever held that he won by defeating the previous titleholder, was when he beat David Lemieux during his first IBF title reign.

Hopkin’s victories at 160lbs against world champions include: Lupe Aquino, John David Jackson, Glen Johnson, Simon Brown, Keith Holmes, Felix Trinidad, Carl Daniels, William Joppy and Oscar De La Hoya.

GGG’s victories at 160lbs against world champions include: Kassim Ouma, Daniel Geale, David Lemieux, Kell Brook, and Daniel Jacobs.

Bernard Hopkins emerged victorious in twenty-one legitimate world middleweight title fights

In stark contrast, GGG has only ever won ten middleweight fights where a fully-fledged legitimate world title was on the line.

Bernard Hopkins held The RING, lineal and WBO championships.

GGG has never held The RING, lineal and WBO championships.

Bernard Hopkins was an undisputed world middleweight champion.

GGG has never been an undisputed world middleweight champion.

Bernard Hopkins world middleweight title reign lasted 10 years, 2 months, and 17 days.

In stark contrast, using a combined total of two title reigns (from the date of his first legitimate world title fight), GGG’s world title reign only lasted 5 years, 4 months and 4 days.

However, this figure is undermined by the fact that Golovkin hasn’t performed a single defence during his second title reign, which will last a minimum of 1 year, 2 months and 14 days.

If we include secondary world title bouts, because Gennadiy’s fans like to dishonestly pretend that the WBA’s interim and regular belts are legitimate championships, then fifteen of GGG’s opponents weren’t universally-regarded as top-ten world-rated middleweight fighters.

So it’s very obvious that Hopkins achieved more at 160lbs than GGG has, since the facts I’ve detailed are objectively accurate and cannot be undermined.

And of course, if we increase the scope of our comparison, using the entirety of both men’s careers, then it’s really no contest, since it’s abundantly clear that Hopkins is the more accomplished fighter by the proverbial country mile.

Enlightened-One wrote: ↑11 Dec 2020, 22:27Hopkins won his WBA, WBC & WBO titles by actually beating the existing titleholders inside the ring (Keith Holmes, Felix Trinidad and Oscar De La Hoya).

The only belt GGG has ever held that he won by defeating the previous titleholder, was when he beat David Lemieux during his first IBF title reign.

Hopkin’s victories at 160lbs against world champions include: Lupe Aquino, John David Jackson, Glen Johnson, Simon Brown, Keith Holmes, Felix Trinidad, Carl Daniels, William Joppy and Oscar De La Hoya.

GGG’s victories at 160lbs against world champions include: Kassim Ouma, Daniel Geale, David Lemieux, Kell Brook, and Daniel Jacobs.

Bernard Hopkins emerged victorious in twenty-one legitimate world middleweight title fights

In stark contrast, GGG has only ever won ten middleweight fights where a fully-fledged legitimate world title was on the line.

Good points. GGG must share some of the blame for his scarcity of world-class challengers but I think Universum & K2 pampered him so badly with soft opponents that it quenched his competitive fire and his ambitions to build a truly great fistic legacy.

When B-Hop fought a top legit 160 pounder in Jermain Taylor, what he did ? Exactly, he lost two times. So with RJJ. The reality is that BHOP's best wins at mw were against some bloated up welters in Oscar and Trinidad.

It was very diffcult for Golovkin as a foreign fighter from an unknown country that barely he spoke english to make big waves in US. Golovkin just had to win fights and be patient and humble. He had to go with flow.

The fact that a young-prime version of Canelo could not win the fight against a 35 y/o Golovkin in their first match it tells me all I have to know about how good Golovkin was/is.

apollo creed wrote: ↑14 Dec 2020, 09:26 When B-Hop fought a top legit 160 pounder in Jermain Taylor, what he did ? Exactly, he lost two times. So with RJJ. The reality is that BHOP's best wins at mw were against some bloated up welters in Oscar and Trinidad.

Yeh, EO always goes on about how GGG has only ever fought 154'ers at 160 or unranked middleweights..

Glen johnson and john david Jackson are better 160 wins than anything GGG has at 160

Ruthless-RKO wrote: ↑14 Dec 2020, 09:39Yeh, EO always goes on about how GGG has only ever fought 154'ers at 160 or unranked middleweights..

I’ve never once claimed that GGG has only ever faced 154lb-ers or unranked middleweights.

However, Golovkin has faced a lot of guys (during his title bouts) that had campaigned at 147lbs or 154lbs before their fights against GGG:

• Milton Nunez
• Nilson Tapia
• Kassim Ouma
• Gabriel Rosado
• Nobuhiro Ishida
• Matthew Macklin
• Osumanu Adama
• Marco Antonio Rubio
• Willie Monroe Jr.
• Kell Brook
• Canelo
• Vanes Martirosyan

And Gennadiy has also faced a lot of opponents that were unrated (i.e. not universally regarded as legitimate top-ten world-rated talent at 160lbs):

• Milton Nunez
• Nilson Tapia
• Kassim Ouma
• Lajuan Simon
• Makoto Fuchigami
• Gabriel Rosado
• Nobuhiro Ishida
• Osumanu Adama
• Willie Monroe Jr.
• Kell Brook
• Dominic Wade
• Vanes Martirosyan
• Steve Rolls

A few other key points:

• Rosado, Martirosyan and Brook weren't even middleweights, but they were somehow given shots at GGG's belts.

• Martirosyan, Ishida and Simon had all lost their immediately preceding bouts at the time they faced GGG.

• Martirosyan, Macklin, Ishida, Simon and Ouma were also (technically-speaking) on a terrible run of form, but they were somehow rewarded with title shots against GGG.

Do you disagree? Do you honestly believe these lists contain many factual inaccuracies?

The only defense golovkin has is other fighters avoiding him with the risk/reward argument
Even still cotto and Martinez are really the only 2 guys who did this as they were on their last legs

Resume wise his 160 opposition is poor and for some reason hacks like rafael include his "interim wba" title defenses as real defenses

Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑14 Dec 2020, 11:05 The only defense golovkin has is other fighters avoiding him with the risk/reward argument
Even still cotto and Martinez are really the only 2 guys who did this as they were on their last legs

I think we generally agree on this topic.

However, an offer has to be made by K2 or Universum, and then subsequently rejected, in order to accuse any of GGG’s rivals of ducking.

None of GGG’s fans can cite examples of K2 or Universum submitting financial offers or attempting to initiate contract negotiations with his big-name rivals when they were promoting him.

People keep randomly barking the word "ducking" in a keyboard Tourette's Syndrome manner, but what does it actually mean, when there isn't even an offer to reject?

So the “risk versus reward” argument is flawed, for that very reason, unless people genuinely believe that GGG’s rivals are automatically obliged to always make the first move, with them giving him offers for fights, rather than the other way around.

GGG had flatly-refused to consider engaging in catchweight bouts against Canelo and Cotto, despite his constant long-term boasts of being capable of beating all world-class fighters from 154lbs to 175lbs. So his unwillingness actively prevented offers from being made.

And you’re right, Cotto and Martinez were on their last legs and had bigger fish to fry (capable of earning better paydays elsewhere).

Jeff_lacy_ko wrote: ↑14 Dec 2020, 11:05Resume wise his 160 opposition is poor and for some reason hacks like rafael include his "interim wba" title defenses as real defenses

Agreed!