BoxRec

brilo33 wrote: ↑31 Dec 2020, 19:04

gilgamesh wrote: ↑31 Dec 2020, 18:48

brilo33 wrote: ↑31 Dec 2020, 18:42

beacuse i think ruiz has improved. also looks like he is trainng well, competitive fight why not, rather that than him v fury, but if he takes parker to school than why not any one then after

There are several guys I'd rather see Ruiz fight.

no doubt but if youre saying ruiz to fight fury, it would be totaly different fight plan if ruiz was to fight wilder first , i think wilder would ko ruiz early mid rds ,

If he didn't he might be in trouble as the fight goes on.

gilgamesh wrote: ↑31 Dec 2020, 19:18

brilo33 wrote: ↑31 Dec 2020, 19:04

gilgamesh wrote: ↑31 Dec 2020, 18:48

There are several guys I'd rather see Ruiz fight.

no doubt but if youre saying ruiz to fight fury, it would be totaly different fight plan if ruiz was to fight wilder first , i think wilder would ko ruiz early mid rds ,

If he didn't he might be in trouble as the fight goes on.

you say that but wilder showed he can bang in the 12 still, dont get me wrong i like ruiz as a fighter, just sizes will make ruiz have to come in to wilder, but who knows wilder might be wearing an other big silly costume

@brilo33

I don't. Ruiz has one of the best chins in the division and he's a front foot pressure fighter who will deny Wilder space and leverage to throw that right hand. He is also a skillful counter-puncher well capable of finding Wilder's chin on a regular basis.

Joshua hit Ruiz with a peach of a left hook right hand combination which dropped him for the first time in his career, and which would have finished most of the top guys, but Ruiz ate it, jumped up and proceeded to batter AJ.

Wilder couldn't stop Johann Duhaupas. I don't see him stopping an even tougher guy in Ruiz. I can see Ruiz overwhelming Wilder though.

candyslim wrote: ↑31 Dec 2020, 19:34 @brilo33

I don't. Ruiz has one of the best chins in the division and he's a front foot pressure fighter who will deny Wilder space and leverage to throw that right hand. He is also a skillful counter-puncher well capable of finding Wilder's chin on a regular basis.

Joshua hit Ruiz with a peach of a left hook right hand combination which dropped him for the first time in his career, and which would have finished most of the top guys, but Ruiz ate it, jumped up and proceeded to batter AJ.

Wilder couldn't stop Johann Duhaupas. I don't see him stopping an even tougher guy in Ruiz. I can see Ruiz overwhelming Wilder though.

maybe so. i see ruiz having to come to wilder , wilder is waiting for that for that all day ,ruiz is no bum wouldnt be a shock shock if he won

Ruiz has excellent skills and is not easy to hit as he narrows the range. Joshua had to completely alter his style and box off the back foot to deal with an undertrained Ruiz. He knew he would be asking for trouble to risk another tear-up with him.

Joshua has the ability to do that but Wilder is totally reliant on fire-power and hasn't boxed on the retreat since winning the title against Stiverne. He was able to keep Stiverne at bay without to much difficulty, but Stiverne could never match Ruiz in terms of skill or handspeed.

I don't believe Shelley/Al would fancy the job even if Wilder does.

Wilder could easily just outpoint Ruiz. Andy isn't a big puncher, wilder with all of his shortcomings is tough. Andy caught lightning in a bottle. Credit to him, he'll never win another meaningful fight. I don't expect he'll ever take part in one.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑31 Dec 2020, 20:07 Wilder could easily just outpoint Ruiz. Andy isn't a big puncher, wilder with all of his shortcomings is tough. Andy caught lightning in a bottle. Credit to him, he'll never win another meaningful fight. I don't expect he'll ever take part in one.

You're being a little tough on Ruiz. He was an inflated version of himself in the Joshua rematch.

I don't disagree that he caught lightning in a bottle in the first fight, and I don't think he could beat the likes of Fury, Joshua, or Wilder. But I do believe that he could compete against other top 10 heavys on the scene and definitely be a solid gatekeeper for the division if he stays in shape.

I want a chubby guy fight with Kownacki bad. I think he smokes AK.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑31 Dec 2020, 20:07 Wilder could easily just outpoint Ruiz. Andy isn't a big puncher, wilder with all of his shortcomings is tough. Andy caught lightning in a bottle. Credit to him, he'll never win another meaningful fight. I don't expect he'll ever take part in one.

wilder has a better chin than aj

brilo33 wrote: ↑31 Dec 2020, 20:33

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑31 Dec 2020, 20:07 Wilder could easily just outpoint Ruiz. Andy isn't a big puncher, wilder with all of his shortcomings is tough. Andy caught lightning in a bottle. Credit to him, he'll never win another meaningful fight. I don't expect he'll ever take part in one.

wilder has a better chin than aj

And stamina.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑31 Dec 2020, 20:37

brilo33 wrote: ↑31 Dec 2020, 20:33

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑31 Dec 2020, 20:07 Wilder could easily just outpoint Ruiz. Andy isn't a big puncher, wilder with all of his shortcomings is tough. Andy caught lightning in a bottle. Credit to him, he'll never win another meaningful fight. I don't expect he'll ever take part in one.

wilder has a better chin than aj

And stamina.

yea the wilder fury 2 fight showed wilder is tough he got bashed but he didnt quit

bobcatbox wrote: ↑31 Dec 2020, 20:27

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑31 Dec 2020, 20:07 Wilder could easily just outpoint Ruiz. Andy isn't a big puncher, wilder with all of his shortcomings is tough. Andy caught lightning in a bottle. Credit to him, he'll never win another meaningful fight. I don't expect he'll ever take part in one.

You're being a little tough on Ruiz. He was an inflated version of himself in the Joshua rematch.

I don't disagree that he caught lightning in a bottle in the first fight, and I don't think he could beat the likes of Fury, Joshua, or Wilder. But I do believe that he could compete against other top 10 heavys on the scene and definitely be a solid gatekeeper for the division if he stays in shape.

I want a chubby guy fight with Kownacki bad. I think he smokes AK.

He's never been and never will be in shape. He could beat kownacki. I suppose that's meaningful in today's landscape. So yeah, a bit harsh. I don't expect him to fight for a few years.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑31 Dec 2020, 20:40

bobcatbox wrote: ↑31 Dec 2020, 20:27

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑31 Dec 2020, 20:07 Wilder could easily just outpoint Ruiz. Andy isn't a big puncher, wilder with all of his shortcomings is tough. Andy caught lightning in a bottle. Credit to him, he'll never win another meaningful fight. I don't expect he'll ever take part in one.

You're being a little tough on Ruiz. He was an inflated version of himself in the Joshua rematch.

I don't disagree that he caught lightning in a bottle in the first fight, and I don't think he could beat the likes of Fury, Joshua, or Wilder. But I do believe that he could compete against other top 10 heavys on the scene and definitely be a solid gatekeeper for the division if he stays in shape.

I want a chubby guy fight with Kownacki bad. I think he smokes AK.

He's never been and never will be in shape. He could beat kownacki. I suppose that's meaningful in today's landscape. So yeah, a bit harsh. I don't expect him to fight for a few years.

no way ruiz will fight ak, why would he ak lost to Helenius was a bad defeat, stick him in with hughie fury

brilo33 wrote: ↑31 Dec 2020, 20:52

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑31 Dec 2020, 20:40

bobcatbox wrote: ↑31 Dec 2020, 20:27

You're being a little tough on Ruiz. He was an inflated version of himself in the Joshua rematch.

I don't disagree that he caught lightning in a bottle in the first fight, and I don't think he could beat the likes of Fury, Joshua, or Wilder. But I do believe that he could compete against other top 10 heavys on the scene and definitely be a solid gatekeeper for the division if he stays in shape.

I want a chubby guy fight with Kownacki bad. I think he smokes AK.

He's never been and never will be in shape. He could beat kownacki. I suppose that's meaningful in today's landscape. So yeah, a bit harsh. I don't expect him to fight for a few years.

no way ruiz will fight ak, why would he ak lost to Helenius was a bad defeat, stick him in with hughie fury

I don't think he'll ever be in a fight as significant as either. Maybe a couple stiffs for his 'comebacks' in 2022 & 2025 until he loses to one.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑31 Dec 2020, 20:07 Wilder could easily just outpoint Ruiz. Andy isn't a big puncher, wilder with all of his shortcomings is tough. Andy caught lightning in a bottle. Credit to him, he'll never win another meaningful fight. I don't expect he'll ever take part in one.

I would have said Wilder was incapable of boxing on the retreat had I not seen his first fight with Stiverne, but that was a long time ago and purely in terms of boxing technique I think he's gone backwards. He's a believer in his own hype and never thought he needed to develop his craft. It was hard to argue with that pre-Fury.

He is proud and tough and does have better stamina than Joshua, but I don't think beats the Ruiz that showed up for Parker or Joshua 1. I think OTO that your distain for his physical appearance prevents you from fully acknowledging his redeeming qualities. The little fat guy is a very capable technician with fast hands, is extremely tough, and totally wrong for Wilder (if he could get back to how he was before winning the titles - a very big IF)

Wilder has enough of an ability to jab and stay away from the shorter fighters. Ruiz isn't special in breaking through in such situations. Ruiz got to Joshua, after Joshua had made a silly mistake. And Wilder has a better chin than Joshua, as well as superior toughness. Wilder also definitely has enough power to hurt Ruiz badly, while Ruiz is hittable. So, Wilder can win Ruiz for sure and I' favor Wilder, if this fight is made now.

The second Fury fight showed us Wilder is not good going backwards. Ruiz would back him up because his short arms, handspeed, front-foot counterpunching ability, and great chin makes him someone you don't want to mix it with at close range.

Joshua learned this the hard way but had the skills and the adaptability to totally change his style for the rematch becoming a slick mover, constantly keeping Ruiz at range behind the jab. This required the discipline to stick rigidly to the game-plan, suppressing his normal urge to scrap, and the humility to do this in the knowledge that he would have his heart questioned by those too dumb to understand that it's smart not cowardly to avoid fighting the other guy's fight.

I believe Wilder would need to avoid a close range war, and emulate Joshua's strategy. The question is "Does Wilder possess the necessary adaptability, the discipline, the humility to pull it off?". I seriously doubt it. On the other hand is Ruiz ever going to be that fighter again now he has enough money to buy a lifetime supply of tacos and snickers?

candyslim wrote: ↑01 Jan 2021, 04:41

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑31 Dec 2020, 20:07 Wilder could easily just outpoint Ruiz. Andy isn't a big puncher, wilder with all of his shortcomings is tough. Andy caught lightning in a bottle. Credit to him, he'll never win another meaningful fight. I don't expect he'll ever take part in one.

I would have said Wilder was incapable of boxing on the retreat had I not seen his first fight with Stiverne, but that was a long time ago and purely in terms of boxing technique I think he's gone backwards. He's a believer in his own hype and never thought he needed to develop his craft. It was hard to argue with that pre-Fury.

He is proud and tough and does have better stamina than Joshua, but I don't think beats the Ruiz that showed up for Parker or Joshua 1. I think OTO that your distain for his physical appearance prevents you from fully acknowledging his redeeming qualities. The little fat guy is a very capable technician with fast hands, is extremely tough, and totally wrong for Wilder (if he could get back to how he was before winning the titles - a very big IF)

His lack of effort bothers me more than his blubbering body. He has quick hands for a butterball and a solid chin. You watch, he will NEVER do anything of note again. On deontay, all I can say is I couldn't disagree more.

candyslim wrote: ↑01 Jan 2021, 06:06 The second Fury fight showed us Wilder is not good going backwards. Ruiz would back him up because his short arms, handspeed, front-foot counterpunching ability, and great chin makes him someone you don't want to mix it with at close range.

Joshua learned this the hard way but had the skills and the adaptability to totally change his style for the rematch becoming a slick mover, constantly keeping Ruiz at range behind the jab. This required the discipline to stick rigidly to the game-plan, suppressing his normal urge to scrap, and the humility to do this in the knowledge that he would have his heart questioned by those too dumb to understand that it's smart not cowardly to avoid fighting the other guy's fight.

I believe Wilder would need to avoid a close range war, and emulate Joshua's strategy. The question is "Does Wilder possess the necessary adaptability, the discipline, the humility to pull it off?". I seriously doubt it. On the other hand is Ruiz ever going to be that fighter again now he has enough money to buy a lifetime supply of tacos and snickers?

Well, fury was a giant man with bad intentions. Not quite the same as a slovenly cruiser that thinks every Thursday is Thanksgiving, he'd follow him around like a puppy.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑01 Jan 2021, 07:49

candyslim wrote: ↑01 Jan 2021, 04:41

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑31 Dec 2020, 20:07 Wilder could easily just outpoint Ruiz. Andy isn't a big puncher, wilder with all of his shortcomings is tough. Andy caught lightning in a bottle. Credit to him, he'll never win another meaningful fight. I don't expect he'll ever take part in one.

I would have said Wilder was incapable of boxing on the retreat had I not seen his first fight with Stiverne, but that was a long time ago and purely in terms of boxing technique I think he's gone backwards. He's a believer in his own hype and never thought he needed to develop his craft. It was hard to argue with that pre-Fury.

He is proud and tough and does have better stamina than Joshua, but I don't think beats the Ruiz that showed up for Parker or Joshua 1. I think OTO that your distain for his physical appearance prevents you from fully acknowledging his redeeming qualities. The little fat guy is a very capable technician with fast hands, is extremely tough, and totally wrong for Wilder (if he could get back to how he was before winning the titles - a very big IF)

His lack of effort bothers me more than his blubbering body. He has quick hands for a butterball and a solid chin. You watch, he will NEVER do anything of note again. On deontay, all I can say is I couldn't disagree more.

I'm not going to contradict your prediction that he'll never do anything of note again because you may well be right. The only hope is that when it comes to getting back to his best physical condition, well the bar was never that high to begin with. Despite a lack of discipline he is no pushover and I think he'd have done Joshua again had he (AJ) fought the second fight as he did the first.

As for Wilder I'm happy to discuss although I think we are unlikely to affect each others opinion

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑01 Jan 2021, 07:52

candyslim wrote: ↑01 Jan 2021, 06:06 The second Fury fight showed us Wilder is not good going backwards. Ruiz would back him up because his short arms, handspeed, front-foot counterpunching ability, and great chin makes him someone you don't want to mix it with at close range.

Joshua learned this the hard way but had the skills and the adaptability to totally change his style for the rematch becoming a slick mover, constantly keeping Ruiz at range behind the jab. This required the discipline to stick rigidly to the game-plan, suppressing his normal urge to scrap, and the humility to do this in the knowledge that he would have his heart questioned by those too dumb to understand that it's smart not cowardly to avoid fighting the other guy's fight.

I believe Wilder would need to avoid a close range war, and emulate Joshua's strategy. The question is "Does Wilder possess the necessary adaptability, the discipline, the humility to pull it off?". I seriously doubt it. On the other hand is Ruiz ever going to be that fighter again now he has enough money to buy a lifetime supply of tacos and snickers?

Well, fury was a giant man with bad intentions. Not quite the same as a slovenly cruiser that thinks every Thursday is Thanksgiving, he'd follow him around like a puppy.

.

You see I think because he looks like a slob and has never been known for discipline or application, that you play down the fact he stopped AJ and arguably beat Parker which are achievements beyond all but the best heavyweights.

I don't suppose the fight between Wilder and Ruiz is ever going to happen anyway. Ruiz seems to have recently enlisted in the ranks of the risk-averse, and I suspect Al and Shelley think they can wring another big payday out of Deontay before they allow him to do his own thing.

It's a shame because prior to their respective rematches, Wilder v Ruiz would have been a fantastic matchup and very easy to make if the puppeteers wanted it (which is of course where it would most likely have hit a wall)

I don't play down he stopped Joshua. Josh has been my favorite heavy forever and it brought me to my feet.

You say I don't give him enough credit, I say you all give him too much. The rematch was the easiest prediction ever, most on here couldn't envision how aj could survive an in shape Ruiz. It's laughable. I'm certain we'll never know.

Put it this way, Andy couldn't beat Hughie if they fought 10 times.

Who the hell wants to see Tyson Fury fight a soft, plodding medium sized heavyweight like Agit Kabayel? Or any of those other guys? I want to see Fury vs Joshua, that's it. I know I can't just snap my fingers & have that but I am sincerely uninterested in seeing Fury fight anyone else, including Wilder or Usyk. Tyson Fury is simply way too talented for any of the guys on this list

thomasjkelley wrote: ↑02 Jan 2021, 15:04 Who the hell wants to see Tyson Fury fight a soft, plodding medium sized heavyweight like Agit Kabayel? Or any of those other guys? I want to see Fury vs Joshua, that's it. I know I can't just snap my fingers & have that but I am sincerely uninterested in seeing Fury fight anyone else, including Wilder or Usyk. Tyson Fury is simply way too talented for any of the guys on this list

I do think that the kurdish fans of the sport would love to see it.

Does he have a shot? None! Cause, well none of this guys do. And Im talking about all the other bums that are not on the poll.
Just hope that they fix the Wilder BS and get Fury in with AJ, Still think Wilder needs to get his shit thoughter. Need to focus on getting over his whooping.

Onetimeonly wrote: ↑02 Jan 2021, 07:15 I don't play down he stopped Joshua. Josh has been my favorite heavy forever and it brought me to my feet.

You say I don't give him enough credit, I say you all give him too much. The rematch was the easiest prediction ever, most on here couldn't envision how aj could survive an in shape Ruiz. It's laughable. I'm certain we'll never know.

Put it this way, Andy couldn't beat Hughie if they fought 10 times.

I thought Joshua would find a way to win the rematch but as a huge fan of his, i'll readily confess I was nervous as a kitten. As I recall even boxers, trainers and most purportedly knowledgeable commentators were saying he was foolish to take the immediate rematch and was unlikely to secure a different outcome.

Now I believe you when you say you expected AJ to win but saying it was the easiest prediction ever, let's just make that 'an easy prediction', well not for the majority of fans on this forum and not for most of the 'experts' either.

I didn't expect Ruiz to beat Joshua first time around but I'm on the record here saying before the fight he was a very dangerous opponent and a very able replacement for Miller. I've always been consistent in my appraisal of him.